Vanilla-WotlK Talents or MoP-onward Talents?

[Big Thanks]

Which version of the Talent System do you like best?

Since is very rare for me to be able to talk about this stuff (gameplay customization), im going to nerd out and show you all possible builds for rogue in Classic (i know of)

Full avoidance for solo leveling

Mostly used for low level leveling, it uses all avoidance talents + Ghostly Strike
Videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDYLHPMziaA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWaPDNuMAfw

Low level AoE dungeon farm or Boost Selling

Made to boost low level or AoE farm dungeons.
Makes use of the talent "Setup" which gives you combo points after dodging or resisting spells.
The idea is to make a big pull, evasion, blade flurry and kill everything with insane combo point generation with "Setup"

Talents:
https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fZMxEd0VzxzoVrxoh

Seal of Fate (Horde & Alliance)

Better than combat daggers if you have more than 30% crit.
Yes, this is actually optimal if geared correctly.
The talents are different for Horde and Alliance because of Windfury totem (or not)
Imp poisons for Alliance
Imp Eviscerate For Horde

WoWhead Spotlight:
https://classic.wowhead.com/guides/r...e-talent-build

Daggers PvE

Min maxing for raids. Nothing much to be said

WoWhead Spotlight:
https://classic.wowhead.com/guides/r...e-talent-build

Swords PvE

Min maxing for raids. Nothing much to be said.

WoWhead Spotlight:
https://classic.wowhead.com/guides/r...e-talent-build

Cold blood hemo PvP

The most famous build for PvP, to be played with any kind of weapon, just NOT daggers main hand.
Preparation resets the cooldown of all spells, including cold blood.
Insane one shot potential and 1v1 potential.

Talents:
https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-c...00253000332121

imp sprint backstab PvP

Daggers PvP with improved Sprint AND Preparation

WoWhead Spotlight:
https://classic.wowhead.com/guides/r...e-talent-build

Daggers Serrated Blades PvP

The streamer PSHero uses this build instead of the "improved sprint daggers" version.
Serrates Blades means more damage against clothies and 30% more damage against warriors when you use rupture.

Talents:
https://classicdb.ch/?talent#f0eboxZGcZVMIccGR

Swords & Maces PvP

Just auto attack your way to victory in PvP
Uses Riposte and imp sprint.
Needs good gear to be effective.

Talents:
https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fhxMoxZG0EdbVzxco

Improved Poisons PvP

I created this one, so it can be considered by you a "troll-build" just because is mine.
The idea is to play with either Wond Poison or Dealy poison on off-hand and Cripling poison on main hand.
6 debuff poisons on your target
With Vile poisons talent you have a 40% chance to resist dispell effects on each of your 6 stacks.
Very hard to dispel your poisons.
You still have Cold Blood and preparation, just have a fast off-hand.

Talents:
https://classicdb.ch/?talent#fhxMoEtZZxMe0MhRo

[ellieg]

I like the vanilla style. Even if its fairly insignificant, it's nice getting a minor boost every time you level. At 60, theres still a few cookie cutter specs but you can move a couple pts around here and there and still be almost best.

In retail I dont hate the system, but the choices dont feel like choices. Usually comes down to choosing a passive, a passive or active that's pretty easy to play around, or an active that slightly changes your rotation. Not a bad system because usually the actives are harder to use and provide more dmg than the passives, and you get to decide how hard / how much dmg you want for your rotation. Still cookie cutter specs and theres obviously a "best"

Also for vanilla, your spec kinda defines your identity. In classic you could be a holy paladin. You know you can heal content and ppl know you as that in your guild. In retail you are just "paladin" and you can change spec and all the pts in that spec on the fly so you are everything.

[Nak88]

Classic talents, I will never play Retail again unless they completely revamp the poor current talent system.

[Finear]

properly balanced mop+ system is miles better than anything we had before, its not even the question

[CrawlFromThePit]

Why limit yourself to what has already been done? Why not something new and better?

[Unholyground]

A combination of modern talents and old ones, I know Blizzard loves Balance but player choice is far more important.

You could easily have each major talent choice have their own small tree for real customization instead of a flat specific alteration that everyone else has. They need to stop making gear always more important than actual character progression.

[Naraga]

The Vanilla-Wotlk system is so much better than all the stuff that came afterwards.

Of course it could be improved on further. But all other iterations of talents have been a regression rather than improvement.

[Kithelle]

Classic talents, I will never play Retail again unless they completely revamp the poor current talent system.

Poor talent system? Yeah because nothing to say good like having all the fat trimmed and you just picking on the juicy pieces. Yeah...it's so exciting spending 5 points just to get a 10% damage boost to a ability

[arkanon]

Classic talents, I will never play Retail again unless they completely revamp the poor current talent system.

Classic talent system is just an illusion of choice. It's literally the retail system, with extra steps.

[Nerovar]

I would prefer a combination of both MoP and Vanilla-Wotlk trees.

[Big Thanks]

Classic talent system is just an illusion of choice. It's literally the retail system, with extra steps.

I give you a wall of text of possible builds...each one with their "persona" and different...and you use on me the "illusion" argument
First you should explain "why" my wall of text is an "illusion".
Then we could have a discussion.

But...you probably dont want to discuss with me...because im very annoying

[arkanon]

I give you a wall of text of possible builds...each one with their "persona" and different...and you use on me the "illusion" argument
First you should explain "why" my wall of text is an "illusion".
Then we could have a discussion.

But...you probably dont want to discuss with me...because im very annoying

Just explain how the classic tree offers more meaningful diversity and flexibility in a typical endgame situation when compared to the bfa systems.

[Morgaith]

Vanilla - Cata was best.

[Kithelle]

Just explain how the classic tree offers more meaningful diversity and flexibility in a typical endgame situation when compared to the bfa systems.

He can't, his wall of text is a smoke screen.

95% of the original talents were boosting damage of existing abilities which were rolled into those abilities when it was converted to the current type of talent trees.

Even posted this in the classic section because they is just another excuse for the classic zealots to come in and talk about how good they think classic is and how much they think retail sucks.

[Nemah]

We should do both. Each vanilla talent point has three additional MOP type talent points to pick from. They would be Talent Talent Points. Think of the customization!

[Big Thanks]

He can't, his wall of text is a smoke screen.

95% of the original talents were boosting damage of existing abilities which were rolled into those abilities when it was converted to the current type of talent trees.

I spent 30 min doing this post.
Please explain first WHY my post is just smoke screen.

Then we can have a discussion.

Unless you and @arkanon cant explain WHY my post is just smoke screen.

[kubuntu]

I give you a wall of text of possible builds...each one with their "persona" and different...and you use on me the "illusion" argument
First you should explain "why" my wall of text is an "illusion".
Then we could have a discussion.

But...you probably dont want to discuss with me...because im very annoying

Classic talent system is an ilussion of choice, from all talent builds you show you can make 2 main builds . First you got deep combat and second you go for Prep and Cold Blood with smal variations . They are kinda difrent at first look but in the end core game play of both spoec is not that diffrent

Mop+ talents are not perfect but they offert choices that can totaly change your game play, the main problem of that system is that in the end people will just sim what is the best or look up what top players use and copy that and forget about other options


New system is better then old but blizz do realy realy bad job at blancing and in some case even at making some choices usable

[Big Thanks]

Classic talent system is an ilussion of choice, from all talent builds you show you can make 2 main builds . First you got deep combat and second you go for Prep and Cold Blood with smal variations . They are kinda difrent at first look but in the end core game play of both spoec is not that diffrent

Mop+ talents are not perfect but they offert choices that can totaly change your game play, the main problem of that system is that in the end people will just sim what is the best or look up what top players use and copy that and forget about other options


New system is better then old but blizz do realy realy bad job at blancing and in some case even at making some choices usable

All the specs i showed have their "persona" and are different. They all do completely different things from one another.
Now let me show you all rogue specs with the new system:

Rogue AoE PvE
Rogue Single Target PvE
Rogue PvP

Thats it.

[Shibito]

Vanilla - Cata was best.

cataclysm talents are the ones we have today

[Morgaith]

cataclysm talents are the ones we have today

They are not.