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  1. #201
    it puts gold in the hands of people inclined to actually spend it. if nothing else it stimulates the economy.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    You dont think ppl would farm more if it meant they could have a free sub?

    I'm very against "legitimizing" things that are detrimental. Might as well legalize heroin, ppl are doing it anyway.
    classic is the best platform for Tokens. because Blizz earns 7 euros for every Token that passes the AH and have to invest nothing. and since classic has not much to offer, full time classic players have enough time to farm as hell. its some part of content in classic and no azerite farming instead holds you back from farming for „free sub“. but your free sub means another guy (which maybe is playing classic and retail and have less time) pays a token for 20 euros. so blizz made 7 euros. and classic is PERFECT for that.

    it will work like a charm, $$ wise, for Blizz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BSwitch View Post
    Misleading title. This is coming TO CHINA. Anyone who does more than a few minutes research into the Chinese MMO market, and the economic models in that part of the world understands that these are two separate, disparate and disconnected markets. China has all kinds of economic models in place, specifically for WoW, that we DO. NOT. HAVE. Assuming that this is coming to NA/EU/AU anytime soon, or anytime at all, is the kind of knee-jerk, doomsaying, low-information reaction that is, sadly, not surprising for these forum sites.

    So, for those in the back, this is something being done in China. Not Western markets. This will not come here, any more than the Eastern pay-per-hour subscription model will. If I'm wrong, I will eat crow, I will apologize, and I'll not post anything for a year. It's just frankly frustrating beyond words how many smooth-brained fools are - again - cynically attacking Blizz for "ruining Classic".

    The last time these people assumed the worst, what happened? Was LFR added to Classic? Was LFD? Were any other non-Classic elements? Barber shop? Paid boosts? Cash shops? Transmog? Achieves?

    Just breathe, and not through your mouths for once. Blizz is not going to screw over the Classic economy in the West. The East is a fully different market, with fully different pay and play models. That's a different world. Also, it's not fully clear this decision was made by Blizz and not NetEase. I understand people who have lost faith with Blizz, but so far ALL evidence is that they're doing Classic right. This one is so easy for them. If they introduced tokens to Classic, the economy would spike, and people would leave the game. They'd lose more money than the little extra they'd make, and they'd lose all good faith. It's not going to happen.

    There are plenty of times I've made statements and I hoped to be wrong. In this case, I'm positive I'm right, I'm not concerned, and if I'm wrong I'll be right there with you outraging away. This is not a red flag - this is mass hysteria by low-information consumers, who read a headline and form all their world views based on bold letters, while ignoring context and nuances of the situation. Pathetic, and sadly typical.
    oh, i forget to say: i will remember you, when its time to eat your crow. i will bring ketchup for you. so, do not be surprised if you get a picture with a bottle of ketchup in the next 0,5-1,5 years posted from me, when blizz tells us that token is comin to na/europe. i will just post a ketchup pic without any comments.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    yeah, ofc. and it will NEVER come to NA/Europe. fooooor sure.

    i tell you what they do:

    - release classic and look how its going
    - introduce token in chinese market
    - wait till dust has settled
    - introduce it slowly in other countries, when ppl started accepting it, after first smaller shitstorms (because its „just china market“) are over
    - profit by doing nothing and spread net gain of cash grab systems over all sub paying players to maximize profit

    btw: the same will happen with paid services. In NO WAY Blizz will ever ignore the billions they made with Token, Paid services and Shop, when they realized (we have no data) that enough ppl constantly play classic. NEVER EVER.

    why i am that sure? because i worked 20 years in that business and understand how it works. but foremost: its about $$$ bling bling. The hell gets frozen, before Activision Blizzgreed dont grab that money. Just follow the dollars and you will know what will happen.
    I would agree with this, if any other things that were "tested" in the Chinese market ended up here. We don't have their pay models, we're not subject to their censorship (which could lower the rating and bring more younger players/money in).

    Of course this is about money, and companies are seeking income above all - but from the hysterical freakouts the community has been having, after news coming out from a disconnected market, don't you think Blizz is smart enough to understand that the community that flooded pservs for free, and came BACK to Blizz to pay money for that same previously free experience, is not looking for massive changes to the game? They would all leave, and Nost 3.0, or whatever, would pop back up. Blizz would lose subs and money if they introduced this token in an attempt to make more money. Yes, if you skim the details it makes business sense to add extra income sources. If you understand the product, consumer base, and how the system works, you understand that adding this to Classic in the West would lose money. I simply have faith that Blizz gets this, based on 100% of their track record with the Classic project. Everything they've ever said and done proves that they know what we want, and they've been delivering on this. Call it naive, whatever, but I simply don't believe it. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, and if so I'll be done with WoW, but I still have faith in their Classic team, because they've not given us any reason to doubt them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    classic is the best platform for Tokens. because Blizz earns 7 euros for every Token that passes the AH and have to invest nothing. and since classic has not much to offer, full time classic players have enough time to farm as hell. its some part of content in classic and no azerite farming instead holds you back from farming for „free sub“. but your free sub means another guy (which maybe is playing classic and retail and have less time) pays a token for 20 euros. so blizz made 7 euros. and classic is PERFECT for that.

    it will work like a charm, $$ wise, for Blizz.

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    oh, i forget to say: i will remember you, when its time to eat your crow. i will bring ketchup for you. so, do not be surprised if you get a picture with a bottle of ketchup in the next 0,5-1,5 years posted from me, when blizz tells us that token is comin to na/europe.
    That's fine bro - I'll gladly eat it, and will rage right along side you. I don't think we're there yet, though. I'm a humble guy, though, I'll take it

  4. #204
    While I don't support tokens in classic some people here actually seem to have no idea how those tokens work.

    Tokens do NOT create gold
    Some people in this thread actually sound as if Blizzard would create gold out of nothing to sell tokens, that is not the case
    You buy a token for real money and put it up on the auction house for other players to buy with their gold
    There won't be any people in wow classic suddenly walking around with millions of gold they bought for real money
    They will get as much gold for their 20 bucks as other people are willing to pay for 13 bucks Blizzard Balance(tm)

    Gold is very scarce in classic so people might get 200 gold per token or even less if only very few people actually buy them

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Token is gonna cause inflation. More ppl will farm because of the token. Ppl that dont want to buy gold are going to suffer from the increased price of items. Think 150g flasks are bad? Get rdy for 250g.

    to finish that: and the net effect is, when everything gets more expensive, there are more ppl that need to buy tokens for 20 euros. $$$ for blizz. and besides that, they completely rule and control the full flow (because its not self regulated, bc they have the knobs and the offset with they calc token ah price. and if you remember thats the reason why they didnt offered the algorith when they introduced the system. this was often asked).

    in short: token is a nice free (for blizz) rotation system, they can rotate virtual created items (sw code lines / db entries) into real money. nice stuff.

    Token is a wonderful money making machine concept by Blizz and i think thats the most genius thing they ever did. Clever bastards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pper View Post
    While I don't support tokens in classic some people here actually seem to have no idea how those tokens work.

    Tokens do NOT create gold
    Some people in this thread actually sound as if Blizzard would create gold out of nothing to sell tokens, that is not the case
    You buy a token for real money and put it up on the auction house for other players to buy with their gold
    There won't be any people in wow classic suddenly walking around with millions of gold they bought for real money
    They will get as much gold for their 20 bucks as other people are willing to pay for 13 bucks Blizzard Balance(tm)

    Gold is very scarce in classic so people might get 200 gold per token or even less if only very few people actually buy them
    you should think a bit further...

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    Quote Originally Posted by BSwitch View Post
    I would agree with this, if any other things that were "tested" in the Chinese market ended up here. We don't have their pay models, we're not subject to their censorship (which could lower the rating and bring more younger players/money in).

    Of course this is about money, and companies are seeking income above all - but from the hysterical freakouts the community has been having, after news coming out from a disconnected market, don't you think Blizz is smart enough to understand that the community that flooded pservs for free, and came BACK to Blizz to pay money for that same previously free experience, is not looking for massive changes to the game? They would all leave, and Nost 3.0, or whatever, would pop back up. Blizz would lose subs and money if they introduced this token in an attempt to make more money. Yes, if you skim the details it makes business sense to add extra income sources. If you understand the product, consumer base, and how the system works, you understand that adding this to Classic in the West would lose money. I simply have faith that Blizz gets this, based on 100% of their track record with the Classic project. Everything they've ever said and done proves that they know what we want, and they've been delivering on this. Call it naive, whatever, but I simply don't believe it. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, and if so I'll be done with WoW, but I still have faith in their Classic team, because they've not given us any reason to doubt them.

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    That's fine bro - I'll gladly eat it, and will rage right along side you. I don't think we're there yet, though. I'm a humble guy, though, I'll take it
    /10c

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by BSwitch View Post
    I would agree with this, if any other things that were "tested" in the Chinese market ended up here. We don't have their pay models, we're not subject to their censorship (which could lower the rating and bring more younger players/money in).

    Of course this is about money, and companies are seeking income above all - but from the hysterical freakouts the community has been having, after news coming out from a disconnected market, don't you think Blizz is smart enough to understand that the community that flooded pservs for free, and came BACK to Blizz to pay money for that same previously free experience, is not looking for massive changes to the game? They would all leave, and Nost 3.0, or whatever, would pop back up. Blizz would lose subs and money if they introduced this token in an attempt to make more money. Yes, if you skim the details it makes business sense to add extra income sources. If you understand the product, consumer base, and how the system works, you understand that adding this to Classic in the West would lose money. I simply have faith that Blizz gets this, based on 100% of their track record with the Classic project. Everything they've ever said and done proves that they know what we want, and they've been delivering on this. Call it naive, whatever, but I simply don't believe it. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, and if so I'll be done with WoW, but I still have faith in their Classic team, because they've not given us any reason to doubt them.

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    That's fine bro - I'll gladly eat it, and will rage right along side you. I don't think we're there yet, though. I'm a humble guy, though, I'll take it

    Private servers will not come back, because the law situation now allows blizz way more agressive acting. just read stuff and you will understand why 2015 private servers easily could survive for a good while. and why private servers are dead instantly in 2020.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fenryn View Post
    People who dont spend hours farming now wouldnt suddenly start farming when wow tokens come out. If anything the people that never farm are the audience that would be selling wow tokens for gold to the people that already grind alot for their gold.

    Wow tokens dont add any gold to the economy, the effects on inflation will be negligible. And as I said before, there is already a very active gold selling economy. Wow tokens would just legitimize whats already happening.

    Buying and selling gold has been a part of wow since the very start. It will always happen, might aswell legitimize it and help people avoid getting scammed.

    if we dont wanna go the route why Blizz get rich as shit, this quote maybe leads to best non-profit explanation:

    ppl pay 7 euros for free to blizz, to not get their account hacked. its like if ppl had to pay 7 euros for using authenticator to be more secure. so, at least, in this point of view you pay blizz for more security.

    if we look at it form that point of view, its maybe the best rational way to look at it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    Funny thing is there are alot of fans actually asking for it.

    do you have data ? to support this statement ?

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    btw i forget to mention:

    if you speak chinese, you can watch the thread and you will see how some players asking what exactly the gold price of the token in the AH defines. you will notice there (same as they introduced it in NA/Europe back in the days) that they will not tell em.

    that players will asking if its solely based on supply and demand and blizz will tell them its not (they have to say that, its law, at least in USA/Europe). so ppl will ask how price is calced and when AH stops serving tokens to stabilize (which border before no more tokens are existing at ah, because no longer anyone paid 20 real money for a token, and how they queue it to guarantee flow), and what the offsets are blizz can set, to make income and outcome attractive, to regulate and control (and if they do it at all). you will then realize, blizz will give no answers to this questions (they will say something about security reasons etc).

    the same happened years ago, when they introduced token in retail. and it will happen in china again. the same way. check it out. (sadly i do not speak chinese)
    Last edited by Niwes; 2020-02-28 at 05:00 PM.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Because it literally gives you the option to SKIP and dont even have to play the game/economy.

    Someone already told me:
    "What do you care about how others play their game. Let them have their fun and dont tell them how to play"

    Just like the LFR argument...
    I personally dont agree with.

    For the past 10 days i have been farming for 40g an hour. <-------------- this is part of the classic experience
    Having to work to earn money IS part of the Classic experience.
    Well...with the WoW Token it will no longer be. Its a tragedy IMO.
    but...there are alredy gold farmers in the game that use shady methods to gain gold and sell it to players,why not have blizz provide that service,gold in classic isnt near as valuable as in bfa,the mount is literaly the only thing

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Other than that I would know what happens in the game on another server. To absolutely know what happens within "the game", one would have to have characters on many many servers and various languages.
    ...Or you just make a character on a very populated realm?

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    And finally it is my own business what I argue and how.
    So basically: "Don't tell me to see things myself, it wouldn't change my opinion anyway".

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Just like everybody else thinks they can give sound advice what WoW needs, how it should be developed and not least what apparently "everybody" "the playerbase" or "the community" does or wants or needs.
    I didn't ask you to take a consensus on the communities opinion, nor claimed to know what they want, so that statement is just projecton, from a standpoint utterly unrelated to this discussion.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    but...there are alredy gold farmers in the game that use shady methods to gain gold and sell it to players,why not have blizz provide that service
    But is a bannable offense.
    Lets not compare unlawful players to the amount of player that will use the Token.

    Me, for example, i would never risk losing my account. I never did anything unlawful in WoW...ever.
    Many people...i would say the majority, are like myself.
    Unless you think the majority is buying gold and are unlawful players...ofcourse they are not.

    gold in classic isnt near as valuable as in bfa,the mount is literaly the only thing
    BiS epics on AH
    Very good epics in AH
    Devilsaur Set and many other twink items
    Buy Tanks to run instances
    Buy Boosts for raids
    Consumables for raids
    Thunderfury
    Rag Weapon
    Mount

    And im probably missing something...

  9. #209
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    ...Or you just make a character on a very populated realm?


    So basically: "Don't tell me to see things myself, it wouldn't change my opinion anyway".
    Well, since this goes all the way back to my reply to post 90 and p2w - no...having a character on a high pop realm to witness boosts being sold isn't necessary. As I said...I have sold and bought boosts in the past, when there was more activity on my server. (2005-2010 - and ofc during MoP when Garrosh dropped those heirloom weapons.) I know this practice exists (I just haven't witnessed it "in full force" on my low pop realm).

    And indeed, it wouldn't affect my opinion on when something is p2w.

    And even if it was p2w - then it is still up to every player to decide if they are ok with it or not and what consequences to draw from it. (As it is being lengthily debated in the "WoW now p2w" thread)

    I actually had to double check that we aren't in that thread but are talking about the token being added in China^^

  10. #210
    Immortal TJ's Avatar
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    Absolute bullshit. Sincerely hope this doesn't come to Europe/NA, blatant cash grab by the greedy twats. If it does come, then I think my desire to carry on playing will be greatly affected.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    classic is the best platform for Tokens. because Blizz earns 7 euros for every Token that passes the AH and have to invest nothing. and since classic has not much to offer, full time classic players have enough time to farm as hell. its some part of content in classic and no azerite farming instead holds you back from farming for „free sub“. but your free sub means another guy (which maybe is playing classic and retail and have less time) pays a token for 20 euros. so blizz made 7 euros. and classic is PERFECT for that.

    it will work like a charm, $$ wise, for Blizz.

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    oh, i forget to say: i will remember you, when its time to eat your crow. i will bring ketchup for you. so, do not be surprised if you get a picture with a bottle of ketchup in the next 0,5-1,5 years posted from me, when blizz tells us that token is comin to na/europe. i will just post a ketchup pic without any comments.
    You say this like its only a positive. I'm sure plenty of ppl would quit. Up to them if they think itll generate enough profit and low enough outrage. I'd personally quit.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    You dont think ppl would farm more if it meant they could have a free sub?

    I'm very against "legitimizing" things that are detrimental. Might as well legalize heroin, ppl are doing it anyway.
    Well, no. Most people value their time, working one hour extra pays your sub (and some) in most countries, while farming however much a token will cost, will most likely take several hours.

    Also, look at the Netherlands, almost no young ones use heroin now, because the government is literally giving Heroin to the old drug addicts and give them a place to sleep it off. Thus no old junkie needs to go out on the street to sell heroin to feed their addiction. The average age of heroin addicts is 52.
    Legalizing drugs isn't as bad as some makes it sound.

    But that's a whole other topic of discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    lol. with the small but nice side effect that Blizz earns 7 Euros for every Token ever passed the AH, by doing nothing.

    yeah, we are all surprised that Blizz introduce Token...

    omg, you ppl are so naive...
    Well of course Blizzard does stuff to earn money, that's why they made Classic aswell. They are a buisiness after all, making money is pretty much the main goal. They have bills to pay and salaries to give.
    Quote Originally Posted by atenime45 View Post
    The 10% reward. It's was unspoken rule that you DONT attack other faction so everyone could enjoy the 10% reward. But now no one cares about that anymore

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxina View Post
    Well, no. Most people value their time, working one hour extra pays your sub (and some) in most countries, while farming however much a token will cost, will most likely take several hours.

    Also, look at the Netherlands, almost no young ones use heroin now, because the government is literally giving Heroin to the old drug addicts and give them a place to sleep it off. Thus no old junkie needs to go out on the street to sell heroin to feed their addiction. The average age of heroin addicts is 52.
    Legalizing drugs isn't as bad as some makes it sound.

    But that's a whole other topic of discussion.

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    Well of course Blizzard does stuff to earn money, that's why they made Classic aswell. They are a buisiness after all, making money is pretty much the main goal. They have bills to pay and salaries to give.
    Legalize botting! Ppl are doing it anyway. Just like you can type /afk to go afk, they should introduce /bot. It auto queues you to AV and passively generates rep and honor. Ppl are doing it anyway, let's legitimize it.

  14. #214
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    Because they can be used as currency for paid services. That's why the fuck.

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    It's not for Gametime. It is a currency that can be used to buy Gametime or games or character services or mounts.

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    Everything you just described is content. Your definition of content is things that are designed to give you something to do.

    Walk around SW RPing? That's content. Blizzard designed SW to give you a place to express yourself and your fantasies?

    Fishing? That's content. There's a leveling system and quests in there too. Allows you to level up your cooking if you want and provides a source of income.

    Farming gold is content. Prepending the word meaningful is irrelevent. For most it is meaningful because it is content that is fine to reach a goal. Sometimes it's a mount. It can be other things too.

    It's a pity that you are such an elitist that you won't even acknowledge what other people do with their time in game. You're not the fucking content police.
    There is nothing here that says anything about it being for anything other than game time, and it's also only for China - you know, the ones who get two raid lockouts a week too that we've never had implemented in NA. Chill your tits.

    The "World of Warcraft" time badge allows players with many game gold coins to exchange gold for game time, while players who want to buy game gold coins can exchange gold coins from other players through this simple and secure system.

    Players can use the Blizzard game points to buy the World of Warcraft [BTime Badge[/B] in the in-game mall, and then consign it at the auction house to trade at the current market price and exchange for gold coins. After the player purchases the World of Warcraft time badge with the game gold coin at the auction house, it will become a soul binding, and the player can use it to redeem 30 days of game time.

    The process of buying time badges is also simple: you only need to go to the auction house to buy the World of Warcraft time badges sold with your game gold coins. After the time light badge was sent to your in-game mailbox, right-click it to add it to your backpack, then right-click the time badge in the backpack. This way you can choose to add 30 days of game time to your Blizzard Battle.net account.

    For more information, check out our World of Warcraft Time Badge support page.
    Also, since literally anything in the game is content I hope to never see another person on these boards complaining about being bored and there being a lack of content.

    We'll see how that goes
    Last edited by jackofwind; 2020-02-28 at 07:20 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  15. #215
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    whats wrong with tokens in classic?seems only fair

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    whats wrong with it?seems only fair if bfa has it that classic should,why force classic players to have to pay only
    Pay only isn't the problem.

    It's selling tokens for gold in the Classic ecosystem that'll blow everything up. That 1000G epic mount? Suddenly it means nothing if it's just a $20 purchase away.
    9.0 Speculation Thread #1 Leakbuster

    Finally guessed the expansion right for the first time since MoP.

    Retail - Wyrmrest Accord (A) | Classic - Bloodsail Buccaneers (A) | FFXIV - Crystal Datacenter

  16. #216
    Immortal jackofwind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    And here we go...we are already at this point of the discussion.
    The same arguments from all LFR and Flying threads.

    1) You can simply choose to not use it
    2) What do you care about what others do? Play your game and dont tell them how to play.

    Arguments i always hated and make little sense to me.
    But that's the same argument you make regarding content (ie: WQs in retail not being "content" vs. farming gold being "content")
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  17. #217
    I'm assuming it's chinese only for now but they'll propose it sooner or later. It seems like something they'd get player feedback on first, but particularly went with china due to the obvious gold farming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  18. #218
    LOOOL @Powerogue

    Those videos were acceptable back then in those old times.
    Nowadays is unacceptable without a twitter storm at least

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Absolute bullshit. Sincerely hope this doesn't come to Europe/NA, blatant cash grab by the greedy twats. If it does come, then I think my desire to carry on playing will be greatly affected.
    Agreed.

    Gold in retail means nothing. Gold in Classic is something you have to farm and work for, take that away and it really destroys the game IMO.

    If they bring tokens to Classic, I am out.
    I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    But is a bannable offense.
    Lets not compare unlawful players to the amount of player that will use the Token.

    Me, for example, i would never risk losing my account. I never did anything unlawful in WoW...ever.
    Many people...i would say the majority, are like myself.
    Unless you think the majority is buying gold and are unlawful players...ofcourse they are not.



    BiS epics on AH
    Very good epics in AH
    Devilsaur Set and many other twink items
    Buy Tanks to run instances
    Buy Boosts for raids
    Consumables for raids
    Thunderfury
    Rag Weapon
    Mount

    And im probably missing something...
    coruption gear in bfa is far far stronger than anything you can buy in classic from ah
    buying boosts in bfa can net you dozens of items in one mythic raid,in classic you are lucky if you get 2-3
    far more mounts in bfa
    thunderfury and rag wep,are people really selling this instead of getting them to raid members?i rly doubt it

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