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  1. #201
    I leave m+ groups if the vibes feel off

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    It's not that it's overtuned, it's that a lot of people make the game harder than it needs to be. Just got into a WCM +11. Tank kites the first obelisk out into the courtyard with the rift in the middle of everything and we chain die. So we pull the hallway normal. Get to Raals room and the healer Flame Shocks the boss during trash wiping us. Then the warriors Obsidian Destruction explodes pulling Raal again and wiping us. We one shot Raal and go out into the courtyard, the warrior dies to Coven Thornshaper and leaves. On top of it all, the 464 unholy DK was doing less than 10k dps, and doing one third the tanks damage.
    This is why we need things like raider.io... so we can avoid people like the ones in your group.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    I stopped trying to boost my own key a long time ago. I have really bad luck with that. I join a group and we complete it, I start my own group and there's always one person who doesn't pull his weight and drags us down.
    And that is why we need things like raider.io... so we can avoid that one person who doesn't pull his own weight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    Not just that, I also quit starting my own group when it started taking 2 hours to find a freaking tank. And IO is a double edged sword for both sides. You either get a good player, or someone who bought their runs and have no clue what they are doing. Then you have people like me, who are always top dps and do things properly, but doesn't have a 2k score because I only do my 1 run of the week. This result is cause IO only shows completion and not how the person actually did during the dungeon.
    But if it takes 2 hours for you, then it will also take 2 hours for someone else. There are just more dps than tanks in the game, so if you're not a tank you just have to accept that it takes more time to make/find a group. This problem will exist no matter what. It's not about raider.io. It's about supply and demand. There are 10000000 dps out there.

    If you only do 1 run per week it shows that you are not very experienced and that you probably dont enjoy M+ that much. You say that you do everything right, but when you don't do the dungeons often you cant possibly know all the tricks and more important have experience with all the tricks. I'm looking for people who do M+ because they want to and not just because they get a weekly reward.

    When I'm making a group I'm always looking at the number of completed runs. Myself, I have more than 100 +15 runs in season 4 and I often look for people with the same. The chance of getting an awesome player is much higher when doing that. Nobody is going to pay for 100 boosts in 2 months.



    Tbh, I'm interested in hearing, do you think you would be invited to more groups if the rio system didn't exist? Because the number of tanks compared to dps would still be the same you know.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2020-03-23 at 10:02 PM.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Zantera View Post
    If you only do 1 run a week, chances are you don't get too picky about what dungeon you actually run though. Like sure if you want to get the score up you try to run all the dungeons but if you only care enough to do 1 key a week, chances are you will be happy to do the first one you can get into.
    Yeah the issue is people say "just run different dungeons to improve r.io" but on the other hand people actively avoid inviting people who don't have that specific dungeon completed in that season. I had that issue at start, first 2 weeks ran only specific 4-5 dungeons I needed for drops. Every week after... can only get invited into those same dungeons for weekly, everything else declined.

    I solved it later by just pestering my friends to save me the keys I need so I can get the completion, but a person that has to rely only on pugs can easily fall into a loop of only being able to join dungeons they already did and being declined from the ones they didn't, therefore being stuck with "shit score".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Tbh, I'm interested in hearing, do you think you would be invited to more groups if the rio system didn't exist? Because the number of tanks compared to dps would still be the same you know.
    True, true, people would just look at ilvl, or fotm class and other criteria that would make it even worse for some people to find groups.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    This is why we need things like raider.io... so we can avoid people like the ones in your group.

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    And that is why we need things like raider.io... so we can avoid that one person who doesn't pull his own weight.

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    But if it takes 2 hours for you, then it will also take 2 hours for someone else. There are just more dps than tanks in the game, so if you're not a tank you just have to accept that it takes more time to make/find a group. This problem will exist no matter what. It's not about raider.io. It's about supply and demand. There are 10000000 dps out there.

    If you only do 1 run per week it shows that you are not very experienced and that you probably dont enjoy M+ that much. You say that you do everything right, but when you don't do the dungeons often you cant possibly know all the tricks and more important have experience with all the tricks. I'm looking for people who do M+ because they want to and not just because they get a weekly reward.

    When I'm making a group I'm always looking at the number of completed runs. Myself, I have more than 100 +15 runs in season 4 and I often look for people with the same. The chance of getting an awesome player is much higher when doing that. Nobody is going to pay for 100 boosts in 2 months.



    Tbh, I'm interested in hearing, do you think you would be invited to more groups if the rio system didn't exist? Because the number of tanks compared to dps would still be the same you know.
    Honestly if R.io or something similar didn't exist and I still had to do M+ weekly I would probably just quit the game. It would be such a massive headache because ilvl tells you basically nothing nowadays.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    I know “make your own group” is the favorite passive aggressive response of people on the forums but I’m going to state something obvious that you clearly don’t seem to realize:

    No one wants to join a raid in March 2020 where the raid leader doesn’t know the fights. That’s just true.

    I would love it if blizzard supported puffing a bit more and actually made a good raid finder where you could be more specific about the type of group you are running, but as is there’s no place for me to do that as a self professed noob.

    In a month I’m sure I will be raid leading because heroic raids are super easy and I can’t do mythic. But right now? Nope.

    And it’s not just carry runs, it’s because people have 460 item level having only run normal because of the power creep philosophy.
    lol what was passive aggressive about that?get over yourself dude,he makes a perfectly valid point,btw you dont need to raid lead when making a normal nyalotha pug group,just take 20 minutes to look at a video about figths,if someone fucks up badly kick and replace,its normal...its literaly usualy easier than lfr cause of the types of people joining,and often you see high ilvl people joining just for the coruption drops or to help friends,also there is no power creep in this patch as titanforge is gone,if anything many people have lower ilvls because of coruption items,and i have seen plenty of nya pugs that are ilvl apropriate

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    There's only 1 solution to this: high ilvl people should stop queue for normal. Then his group will never fill and he will have to give up or get off his high horse.

    At least it's a bit less "bad" than in legion where overgeared people were zerging trivial raids for chance for legendaries so you couldn't find any gear up group only "zerg run" and "weekly raid tour" and so forth.
    this is some brilliant logic you got,fuck over other people because they dont play how you want lol,people can ask for whatever ilvl they want,plenty of other groups outthere that dont ask for exagerated ilvl's,also...making your own group isnt passive agressive,its a valid solution

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Honestly if R.io or something similar didn't exist and I still had to do M+ weekly I would probably just quit the game. It would be such a massive headache because ilvl tells you basically nothing nowadays.
    actualy ilvl tells you way more these days,no titanforge means no lucky people squeezing by only if you buy boosts,in fact ilvls tend to be lower this patch because of corruption,im 479 total ilvl but i use 415 gloves

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    Not just that, I also quit starting my own group when it started taking 2 hours to find a freaking tank. And IO is a double edged sword for both sides. You either get a good player, or someone who bought their runs and have no clue what they are doing. Then you have people like me, who are always top dps and do things properly, but doesn't have a 2k score because I only do my 1 run of the week. This result is cause IO only shows completion and not how the person actually did during the dungeon.
    add me on EU and if you can "Top the Meters" in my group ill give you a 12/12M boost this week for free

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Honestly if R.io or something similar didn't exist and I still had to do M+ weekly I would probably just quit the game. It would be such a massive headache because ilvl tells you basically nothing nowadays.
    Exactly and people would still not invited to group, because rio is not the problem. The issue is that you have 100 dps for every 1 tank.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    True, true, people would just look at ilvl, or fotm class and other criteria that would make it even worse for some people to find groups.
    And the main problem for dps would still be there because it has nothing to do with rio. When I make a group for a +15-19 key, I always have more than 20 dps signing up. And since I cannot take 20 people in my dungeon group, I will have to decline some of them. That's just how it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iem View Post
    If anything I would avoid the guy above me, thats exactly the kind of attitude that the OP is referring to.
    I'm avoiding the type of guy who says "Well I only do 1 dungeon every week, but I'm still a very good player bla bla bla..." because they are lying.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    this is some brilliant logic you got,fuck over other people because they dont play how you want lol,people can ask for whatever ilvl they want,plenty of other groups outthere that dont ask for exagerated ilvl's,also...making your own group isnt passive agressive,its a valid solution
    I rly don't know what do you mean by "fuck other people over". I think it's a rather design problem than playerbase problem, if you put rewards people want from normal even when they have gear from mythic, you create this kind of situation, that people who don't "need" normal for normal loot drops queue for it because they need essence, legendary, ap, trinket upgrade (antorus), ring upgrade (hfc), titanforges, corruptions, and so forth. Soon it'll start with cloak upgrades that easiest way would be pug normal Nzoth, but at least you can also do horrific vision clear and then don't have to do normal.

    Maybe I worded it wrong, but the point is, as long as group leaders have abundance of 460+ geared people for normal, they will never take a 440 player instead. It's not about whether a group of 440 geared people can clear it. It's about the competition.

    And yes, I don't do lfr, normal, low key m+ and such content on my high geared characters because what's the point. I'm not sure why other people do outside of 1) helping a friend 2) specific 1 time goals like obtaining an essence, doing a quest.

    And sometimes when I idle in main city I get whispers from complete strangers "hey wanna tank my m+7?" How about they find someone on their gear / experience level instead? Stop the obsession of "must have 20 more ilvls than the place drops to be invited", people complain they can't find a tank but how many newbie tanks got discouraged by bad treatment when they had low gear / xp and everyone crapped on them?

    I'm moderately experienced in m+, and I see what's the general attitude, I can only imagine how much worse it is for tanks that are new. And the lower the m+ key level the less skilled, but more toxic playerbase becomes. Somehow the tank and to some extent the healer is expected to compensate for every shortcoming. We depleted key, tank was pulling too slow. We wiped, tank was pulling too much.

    Sometimes I wonder when people say, like a couple of posts in this thread "I don't do m+ above 10, I don't raid heroic / mythic, I don't join a guild because they're toxic", meanwhile the worst toxicity I've seen was in the low content, where people come with an attitude "it's easy, I don't need to know anything" and expectation to faceroll. Yes, there are toxic guilds and toxic "elitist" high level pugs, but the low ones I find much more toxic. People who don't know any strats behaving like know it alls and always blaming others. I feel like doing "difficult" content comes with an expectation it might fail, but doing "easy" content if something fails, it's insta drama, ragequits, blame game etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I'm avoiding the type of guy who says "Well I only do 1 dungeon every week, but I'm still a very good player bla bla bla..." because they are lying.
    Good for what, pushing +20? They won't be.
    Doing the weekly +15? They're probably good enough.

    I'm one of the people who only do 1 dungeon per week and I don't apply to groups that say "pushing, aiming for +3" or keys above 16. But on the other hand you don't need MDI pros to do a weekly. Last week I pugged "15 for weekly" and the group was boosting a freshly dinged friend who did less dps than the disc priest, but since we were warned it was a carry run, I was like fine, as long as we don't get hardstuck on a boss I don't mind playing along. And guess what, we even timed it. With 1 person doing next to nothing and rest of the people not exactly being some "pusher pros".

    I wish people were more honest with their capabilities, people who did +15s in previous seasons or did something close to 15 this season, or did some dungeons and not the others - they're probably fine for the weekly, especially when the aim is completion not the timer. A person who never stepped in a dungeon above 10? That's much more doubtful. A player who never did any m+ but "hey I was gladiator in tbc and did CM gold in MOP so I'm a good player"? Nah I somehow doubt you'd know what going on in the dungeons. Knowing your class rotation is not enough, you also need to have some idea about the content (in any form of pve).

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    and those systems work .

    have you seen any player complaining about assaults difficulty ? or WQ difficulty ?

    and yet whenever you do them you are surrounded by crowds.

    thats the diffuclty that most people seek in games.
    No to very little difficulty at all is what most people seek in games? Very much doubt that

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by AlmightyGerkin View Post
    No to very little difficulty at all is what most people seek in games? Very much doubt that
    actualy that does seem to be the common trend,its why wow exploded in popularity,it was the first fairly polished casual mmo,its why wrath peaked in subs with its extreme casual raids and dungeons,its why cataclysm saw wow's first decline early on with the adition of hard dungeons and raids,not at the end like these days,and i recal reading a poll about playing on averege chosing easy or normal in games they play

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by odamienskii View Post
    What you may not realise is raider io can be seen your record of recent dungeons, party leaders check recent runs, if someone is depleting a 12 they must be very bad is what most ppl would think, i know personally if i was in a 12 key and it was even close to being a deplete the ppl in it must be absolutely disastrous in terms of skill level.
    Or undergeared or in bad luck because 1 person left or because either the tank or healer didn’t know what to do. Raider IO doesn’t tell you anything realy that’s the thing with pugging anything.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I'm avoiding the type of guy who says "Well I only do 1 dungeon every week, but I'm still a very good player bla bla bla..." because they are lying.
    I do that and I'm certainly not lying. Just one dungeon a week for cache and that's all. I see no other reason why should I do more(not like I have enough time for that). But it's your opinion and you're entitled to have it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Druid ist Op View Post
    add me on EU and if you can "Top the Meters" in my group ill give you a 12/12M boost this week for free
    Gimme your battle-tag!

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Good for what, pushing +20? They won't be.
    Doing the weekly +15? They're probably good enough.

    I'm one of the people who only do 1 dungeon per week and I don't apply to groups that say "pushing, aiming for +3" or keys above 16. But on the other hand you don't need MDI pros to do a weekly. Last week I pugged "15 for weekly" and the group was boosting a freshly dinged friend who did less dps than the disc priest, but since we were warned it was a carry run, I was like fine, as long as we don't get hardstuck on a boss I don't mind playing along. And guess what, we even timed it. With 1 person doing next to nothing and rest of the people not exactly being some "pusher pros".

    I wish people were more honest with their capabilities, people who did +15s in previous seasons or did something close to 15 this season, or did some dungeons and not the others - they're probably fine for the weekly, especially when the aim is completion not the timer. A person who never stepped in a dungeon above 10? That's much more doubtful. A player who never did any m+ but "hey I was gladiator in tbc and did CM gold in MOP so I'm a good player"? Nah I somehow doubt you'd know what going on in the dungeons. Knowing your class rotation is not enough, you also need to have some idea about the content (in any form of pve).
    But why would I invite someone to my group who doesn't really enjoy doing M+ and don't have much experience with the dungeons, when I have 20 other applicants who are much more experienced? Why should I decline them and invite the guy who only do one dungeon every week?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    I do that and I'm certainly not lying. Just one dungeon a week for cache and that's all. I see no other reason why should I do more(not like I have enough time for that). But it's your opinion and you're entitled to have it.
    Experience is important and a person who only do 1 dungeon a week cannot have a lot of experience. You're not a good player based on my standard because you lack experience. You might know your class well and can do a lot of damage, but you don't have experience with all the tricks in all the dungeons and I don't want a person like that in my group. Also, why would I invite someone who don't actually enjoy doing the m+?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iem View Post
    Nope not really, I know several people who play like this. They prefer raiding but aim to get their +15 done for weekly cache each week.
    But they are not good in relation to M+ dungeons. You can be the best raider in the world, but if you don't have experience with the specific dungeons you will fail in a high key.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In general why would I invite a person to my group who only completes 1 dungeon every week when I have many other applicants with 50, 70 or 100 completed +15-20 runs.. why? Why should I pick the statistically worst person and decline the rest?
    Last edited by Kaver; 2020-03-24 at 11:59 AM.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Iem View Post
    They make their own groups fine without you.
    So why are you discussing them in this thread?

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post



    I'm avoiding the type of guy who says "Well I only do 1 dungeon every week, but I'm still a very good player bla bla bla..." because they are lying.
    Those lying mythic raiders who do 1 m+ dungeon a week !!! Damn them all !!!

  16. #216
    If you don't want to stay in a group, then you are free to leave. Its a game. If the rest of the group makes you feel like you don't want to be there, then you are free to leave. Anyone trying to tell otherwise is not thinking clearly.

    I do a lot of m+ and sure, sometimes its frustrating that for example a random dps pulls two packs on bolstering and group ends up with some giga mob that kills the group and afterwards the same culprit leaves and the group disbands. But who cares, really? Its a game. If you can't handle that sometimes the game doesn't go your way, you are playing the wrong game. If you have problems with queue time to dungeons, then you are playing the wrong game (or spec).

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Experience is important and a person who only do 1 dungeon a week cannot have a lot of experience. You're not a good player based on my standard because you lack experience. You might know your class well and can do a lot of damage, but you don't have experience with all the tricks in all the dungeons and I don't want a person like that in my group. Also, why would I invite someone who don't actually enjoy doing the m+?
    It depends what you need. If you need Pushing >20 keys? Sure thing, don't invite me.
    +15 keys? Easy peasy.

    It's just once a week and BFA is what? More than a year old. It would be unwise thinking that someone don't have enough experience, who know his class, would make any problems in a dungeon.

    Anyway, I wasn't strictly talking about the whole M+ scene, just S4. Even though I've finished every dungeon in previous season on +15 timed(with much worse gear), sometimes I'm still being declined on +10-13 keys because of the r.io score. But I don't mind, I'm usually finding people and do the keys.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Iem View Post
    Yeah no, you dont know the people I am talking to so dont act like you do because what you're saying isnt true.
    They make their own groups fine without you.
    It is true. You cannot be good at M+ if you don't have a lot of experience with M+... it's the same as every other thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    It's just once a week and BFA is what? More than a year old. It would be unwise thinking that someone don't have enough experience, who know his class, would make any problems in a dungeon.
    I have seen this very often. Maybe because I run a lot more keys than you do. Those people who don't have experience often cause problems even in a simple +15 key. Especially in the dungeons which people don't like to run like Siege, King's Rest, Shrine etc. Or ranged people who don't know very basic mechanics like baiting the green stuff on the first boss in Freehold.

    And again, if there is 20 dps applying for a group, why would anybody choose the ones with low experience?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Popastique View Post
    Those lying mythic raiders who do 1 m+ dungeon a week !!! Damn them all !!!
    It's all good. I know a lot of them myself, and I completely understand people who don't want to run M+. But there is no reason to lie about and say that they know everything when they don't. Because they cant. Because knowing "everything" requires experience. And since they only run 1 dungeon a week they don't have the experience.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2020-03-24 at 11:36 PM.

  19. #219
    It's all good. I know a lot of them myself, and I completely understand people who don't want to run M+. But there is no reason to lie about and say that they know everything when they don't. Because they cant. Because knowing "everything" requires experience. And since they only run 1 dungeon a week they don't have the experience.

    I´ve run 1 or 2 +8 key dungeons a week for more than a year. RIO would say I´m fuckin noob, wich I´m not because I´ve seen all dungeons at least 10 times. But yeah im lying right?

  20. #220
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trapmaster View Post
    Honestly that should be locked in system for mythic+ so they can't bring their "friend" inside it. That's the douche move they had to do to waste your time and "borrow" ur your damage. What the actual fuck...?

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    I had this few runs with sisters with ppl that doesn't know the mechanics and wipes. Like how the fuck are you here in this mythic+ 10 in first place? Some of them bought mythic+ runs carry to boost their I.O scores. Ok cool see ya *abandon group* I stopped doing mythic+ 10 above cuz ppl that likes to troll or don't do the mechanics or poor performances dead weight is a huge turn off.
    So I got a slight one up to this scenario. Just now got out of a heroic nyalotha. It was a half and half some learning some not. Which is fine, ppl coming back to work with the 100% xp buff and isolation, I get it. But check this.

    We kill hivemind after two wipes, get to Raden. Ppl ask the usual question "anything I need to know here?". But I tell them Raden is unique it is the same as normal. And then comes the response. Oh I haven't done this fight on normal. Honestly even then I was like sure it's ok benefit of the doubt and what not. So I direct them to hazelnuttys link for a quick 5min vid on the fight.

    Some people just decline to watch it and some outright lie. Because after giving a 10min break and multiple ready checks. The first guy that gets void collapse. Runs out of raid and dies. Projectile missed and later wiped cuz ppl with electric leash didn't spread. Gg.
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

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