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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    It is true. You cannot be good at M+ if you don't have a lot of experience with M+... it's the same as every other thing.
    In your mind, maybe.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    and those systems work .

    have you seen any player complaining about assaults difficulty ? or WQ difficulty ?

    and yet whenever you do them you are surrounded by crowds.

    thats the diffuclty that most people seek in games.
    Please. This is absolutely not true.

    And WoW have difficulties for all levels. There is something for everyone. Why do you want to ruin it for people who like more challenging content?

    The problem is that people cant accept that some content is just out of there league. They should just do the stuff they can manage.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Iem View Post
    In your mind, maybe.
    No it's a fact. It's the same as saying that you cannot be good at football if you never play football. To be good at something you need practice.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2020-03-25 at 10:24 AM.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    No it's a fact. It's the same as saying that you cannot be good at football if you never play football. To be good at something you need practice.
    I love it when people cite their own opinions as if they were facts.

    Imagine not being good at PVE after doing end-game PVE for 15 years.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Iem View Post
    I love it when people cite their own opinions as if they were facts.

    Imagine not being good at PVE after doing end-game PVE for 15 years.
    Saying that you need to practice something before you can be good at it is not an opinion.

    Saying that you are good at PVE is like saying you are good at sports. It's not specific.

    Just because you are a good raider doesn't mean you are good at M+. It requires experience and practice with the specific content. You cannot be good at Shrine (for example) if you have only done the dungeon 5 times. It takes practice. That's not an opinion.

    Just like being good at football doesn't mean you're good at basketball.
    Last edited by Kaver; 2020-03-25 at 10:44 AM.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Iem View Post
    Imagine not being good at PVE after doing end-game PVE for 15 years.
    And you will still die every second trash pack to instagibs if you have no experience in current dungeons.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Teflon View Post
    If you don't want to stay in a group, then you are free to leave. Its a game. If the rest of the group makes you feel like you don't want to be there, then you are free to leave. Anyone trying to tell otherwise is not thinking clearly.

    I do a lot of m+ and sure, sometimes its frustrating that for example a random dps pulls two packs on bolstering and group ends up with some giga mob that kills the group and afterwards the same culprit leaves and the group disbands. But who cares, really? Its a game. If you can't handle that sometimes the game doesn't go your way, you are playing the wrong game. If you have problems with queue time to dungeons, then you are playing the wrong game (or spec).
    I'd argue differently here.

    This is all in all just poor game design, which invites this much toxicity in the first place and you're basically at the mercy of each player. Before m+ you could always replace anyone in your group and parties would rarely truly fall apart.

    This whole don't like it don't play it attitude itself is pretty toxic, even though you were trying hard to sound reasonable, which you aren't. An attitude like this is also part of the reason why people think that this community sucks and also part of the reason why so many people quit WoW.

  7. #247
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I have seen this very often. Maybe because I run a lot more keys than you do. Those people who don't have experience often cause problems even in a simple +15 key. Especially in the dungeons which people don't like to run like Siege, King's Rest, Shrine etc. Or ranged people who don't know very basic mechanics like baiting the green stuff on the first boss in Freehold.

    And again, if there is 20 dps applying for a group, why would anybody choose the ones with low experience?
    Your group consists of a BM hunter, a BDK, a mage, and a disc priest, you are about to go into shrine of the storm 15, it's a tyrannical week, out of 20 DPS queued for your key there are 4 magi with high raider io score, and 16 whatever players between 600 and 1000 score, would you pick a mage in this situation?
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Your group consists of a BM hunter, a BDK, a mage, and a disc priest, you are about to go into shrine of the storm 15, it's a tyrannical week, out of 20 DPS queued for your key there are 4 magi with high raider io score, and 16 whatever players between 600 and 1000 score, would you pick a mage in this situation?
    "You will be pushed of a bridge and fall to your death if you don't eat a big pile of shit. Would you eat the shit in this situation?"

    Sounds stupid right? Well so do you.

    You are painting a scenario where no melee dps (I know what you were doing) with high rio score is applying to a group that already has both a tank and a healer. This is a completely unrealistic scenario. If I had a group ready to go and only missing 1 dps, I would have 50 Rogues and DHs applying with high rio score. So you can take your stupid made-up scenario and go home.

    Also, do you think a person above 1000 has a high rio score?
    Last edited by Kaver; 2020-03-25 at 11:08 AM.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Your group consists of a BM hunter, a BDK, a mage, and a disc priest, you are about to go into shrine of the storm 15, it's a tyrannical week, out of 20 DPS queued for your key there are 4 magi with high raider io score, and 16 whatever players between 600 and 1000 score, would you pick a mage in this situation?

    I'd pick none of the above and sit in queue til an adequate player appears.
    I'd rather not play at all than be in a group with an incompetent player.

    My checklist is as follows:

    -Do they have an amount of 15s done IN TIME to match the current week of the season?

    If yes, proceed to step two.

    -Look at their raid logs to see their damage.
    Anything less than purple parses I ignore.



    Ta-da you now know the members of your group are capable of doing the content. This has been the recipie for success since challenge modes were implemented. No raid logs, no way to determine dps.
    Last edited by Tehalbino; 2020-03-25 at 11:13 AM.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehalbino View Post
    I'd pick none of the above and sit in queue til an adequate player appears.


    My checklist is as follows:

    -Do they have an amount of 15s done IN TIME to match the current week of year for the season?

    If yes, proceed to step two.

    -Look at their raid logs to see their damage.
    Anything less than purple parses I ignore.



    Ta-da you now know the members of your group are capable of doing the content. This has been the recipie for success since challenge modes were implemented. No raid logs, no way to determine dps.
    You don't even have to wait because in that scenario the queue would already be full of Demon Hunters with high rio scores :P

  11. #251
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    "You will be pushed of a bridge and fall to your death if you don't eat a big pile of shit. Would you eat the shit in this situation?"

    Sounds stupid right? Well so do you.

    You are painting a scenario where no melee dps (I know what you were doing) with high rio score is applying to a group that already has both a tank and a healer. This is a completely unrealistic scenario. If I had a group ready to go and only missing 1 dps, I would have 50 Rogues and DHs applying with high rio score. So you can take your stupid made-up scenario and go home.

    Also, do you think a person above 1000 has a high rio score?
    It's a scenario i have to deal with every week, because that's what we play. You asked "why would anybody choose the ones with low experience?" - i answered - because you need to consider more things than someones experience, now you backpedal, good for you i guess.

    I have no clue what is considered "high rio score" because i don't give a shit about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    It's a scenario i have to deal with every week, because that's what we play. You asked "why would anybody choose the ones with low experience?" - i answered - because you need to consider more things than someones experience, now you backpedal, good for you i guess.

    I have no clue what is considered "high rio score" because i don't give a shit about it.
    Well I do because I don't want to carry people through dungeons without being payed.

    And you're lying about that scenario. No way that you have a full group ready to go, and you cant find a DH, Warrior or Rogue with a high rio score. That's just not true. The game are full of them. The only reason why people with high rio scores would join your group is if you have a low rio score yourself. And I think that's the case.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehalbino View Post
    I'd pick none of the above and sit in queue til an adequate player appears.
    I'd rather not play at all than be in a group with an incompetent player.

    My checklist is as follows:

    -Do they have an amount of 15s done IN TIME to match the current week of the season?

    If yes, proceed to step two.

    -Look at their raid logs to see their damage.
    Anything less than purple parses I ignore.



    Ta-da you now know the members of your group are capable of doing the content. This has been the recipie for success since challenge modes were implemented. No raid logs, no way to determine dps.
    Sorry I lol’d

    But man, I respect your right to play with who you want, when and how you want, but you don’t have to be derogatory to everyone who doesn’t meet your standards XD

  14. #254
    Hell yeah, as soon as i notice someone is being annoying or too "elite" (aka, look at me, I'm the best in the game and i know better than all the other 4 people) ill quit their group and ruin their key.

    They deserve it. Not like they don't quit my keys cuz they think someone in the group sucks or the DPS is not good enough. So ye, M+ is a warzone and i don't care anymore. Just hope i don't join your groups, cuz i left over 50000 groups and i pissed off a million people. If they cant behave, i got 0 patience for "badasses"Act normally or face the consequences. I won't change, if others don't, then this is how things will be forever LOL (i don't mind wasting my time, or other people's time either.) Gaming is a big waste of time anyway. So might as well punish a few (SUPER RUDE AND ANNOYING) people.

    You may call me the Batman of WoW

    Im a tank btw. So ye, i don't tolerate BS for the last 1 year and this is how things will be. Doesnt matter if its MM 4-8/pushing to 15 or more.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Well I do because I don't want to carry people through dungeons without being payed.

    And you're lying about that scenario. No way that you have a full group ready to go, and you cant find a DH, Warrior or Rogue with a high rio score. That's just not true. The game are full of them. The only reason why people with high rio scores would join your group is if you have a low rio score yourself. And I think that's the case.
    Ahhh humanities greed never fails to disappoint me. I get not wanting to waste your time if you’re short on it, but man, does every would-be selfless act require monetary gain these days? If the content is cleared in time, what’s the difference if you did 10% more damage, or even 20%.

    Take some pride in being good enough to do it, and help somebody out at the same time.

  16. #256
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Well I do because I don't want to carry people through dungeons without being payed.

    And you're lying about that scenario. No way that you have a full group ready to go, and you cant find a DH, Warrior or Rogue with a high rio score. That's just not true. The game are full of them. The only reason why people with high rio scores would join your group is if you have a low rio score yourself. And I think that's the case.
    Wow, your guildies must love you with that attitude of yours

    Well i am indeed lying in this scenario, because usually we just grab whatever from the guild - a feral druid, a frost DK, that on-and-off rogue player, maybe grab a healer than got into WoW two months ago and run her through high keys to make her ready for hard content. But sometimes we need to grab someone from queue and i wasn't counting how many rogues and DHs there is or what their raider io score is, usually i consider things like having a mass dispel for kings rest, two melee for shrine of the storm (one melee if we are in voice coms), some form of CC to help with necrotic, etc.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    Ahhh humanities greed never fails to disappoint me. I get not wanting to waste your time if you’re short on it, but man, does every would-be selfless act require monetary gain these days? If the content is cleared in time, what’s the difference if you did 10% more damage, or even 20%.

    Take some pride in being good enough to do it, and help somebody out at the same time.
    Anyone who says that they "carried" someone has no leg to stand on, unless that carried person was afk and did nothing but loot the chest at the end of the key
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Well I do because I don't want to carry people through dungeons without being payed.
    Then run keys well above 15 and I'm pretty sure no filthy casual tries to get their weekly chest done in +20.

    I don't understand why players who claim they've ran 100s of dungeons and have mountains of experience would still be running 15s at this point of the season, and then have problem with typical audience of said content. It's like complaining your typical heroic raid pug doesn't consist of world top mythic raiders. Even if you're a world top mythic raider yourself. It's still unrealistic expectation.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Saying that you need to practice something before you can be good at it is not an opinion.

    Saying that you are good at PVE is like saying you are good at sports. It's not specific.

    Just because you are a good raider doesn't mean you are good at M+. It requires experience and practice with the specific content. You cannot be good at Shrine (for example) if you have only done the dungeon 5 times. It takes practice. That's not an opinion.

    Just like being good at football doesn't mean you're good at basketball.
    Yeah, your opinion (because thats what it is) is that players cannot be good at m+ if they dont have experience with it, which I agree with to some extent.

    What I dont believe is that you need to spam them every week to be good at them, since my friends who get their +15 done once a week confirm.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    And you will still die every second trash pack to instagibs if you have no experience in current dungeons.
    You're assuming that all players need to look up guides to understand things, this is not true for everybody.

  19. #259
    Titan Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iem View Post
    Yeah, your opinion (because thats what it is) is that players cannot be good at m+ if they dont have experience with it, which I agree with to some extent.

    What I dont believe is that you need to spam them every week to be good at them, since my friends who get their +15 done once a week confirm.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You're assuming that all players need to look up guides to understand things, this is not true for everybody.
    I'd argue that to burn out a 15 key you don't even need to be good at m+, you need to be good at playing your character and your character needs to be well-equipped for m+. After you've done a dungeon once you get a hang of it (which buffs you need to remove, where to pop your cooldowns, what unique situational ability can be useful, etc) question of if you'll finish 15 in time is up to "how many mistakes did your party did?".

    I mean, if you are slow learner you may need to spam m+ every week to get a hang of it
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    I'd argue that to burn out a 15 key you don't even need to be good at m+, you need to be good at playing your character and your character needs to be well-equipped for m+. After you've done a dungeon once you get a hang of it (which buffs you need to remove, where to pop your cooldowns, what unique situational ability can be useful, etc) question of if you'll finish 15 in time is up to "how many mistakes did your party did?".

    I mean, if you are slow learner you may need to spam m+ every week to get a hang of it
    Yes, thats about what I thinking too. This separates an average player from a good player.

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