Toxic M+ Leavers

[Ichology]

So join a guild or a discord? There's several M+ discords and communities out there that don't require you to have a guild tag associated with them. There's a lot that you can do to prevent having to pug.

On the topic there's no realistic way to punish these kinds of players because while there are some toxic people out there(which I've very rarely experienced in pugging this expansion) there are also legitimate reasons that follow people leaving keys, from my experience it's very rarely just because they want to be a dick.

You're either sugarcoating your pug experience, or straight up lying. The M+ pug community is about as toxic as low elo league on a fresh 30 account. This is remedied by what you suggested (join a group with a discord. People in general are better players and humans there, and the toxic ones are generally less inclined to be so when they have to actually speak with you). That being said, if it's the key holder being a douche, I have no qualms with dipping. Otherwise, I will stick it out until the person with the key is done, typically.

[Zyky]

You're either sugarcoating your pug experience, or straight up lying. The M+ pug community is about as toxic as low elo league on a fresh 30 account. This is remedied by what you suggested (join a group with a discord. People in general are better players and humans there, and the toxic ones are generally less inclined to be so when they have to actually speak with you). That being said, if it's the key holder being a douche, I have no qualms with dipping. Otherwise, I will stick it out until the person with the key is done, typically.

I'm really not, though I don't play in low elo. I only do 15s and prior seasons 10s. I always found it a waste of my time doing lower keys, though I understand how lower keys can be progression to many players. However I'm neither sugarcoating nor lying about my experiences, I very rarely run into toxic players.

[Ichology]

I'm really not, though I don't play in low elo. I only do 15s and prior seasons 10s. I always found it a waste of my time doing lower keys, though I understand how lower keys can be progression to many players. However I'm neither sugarcoating nor lying about my experiences, I very rarely run into toxic players.

You tried to passively toss out a "low elo" insult, only after to refer to 15 as high elo, the current bottom standard for the maximum weekly chest reward. Gold Jerry, gold.

[Zyky]

You tried to passively toss out a "low elo" insult, only after to refer to 15 as high elo, the current bottom standard for the maximum weekly chest reward. Gold Jerry, gold.

There is zero insult, I'm saying "low elo" because of the person who made the thread talking about people leaving 11s. You want to turn my comments into some sort of narrative, but the reality is there are few assholes doing M+, they exist, but not nearly as many as you're trying to claim.

[Zantera]

Actually the best pug groups involve picking hunters or demon hunters as your 3 DPS. This is because those are the easiest classes to excel at. So when fielding pugs, you odds of hitting a good player go up. This means your tank or heals need brez as well, so you are looking at a death knight or druid tank, or a druid heal.

I don't really agree on DHs/Hunters because while you are right, they tend to be very hit or miss classes. There are sooo many mediocre DHs that for every good one you'll go through 3-4 underperforming ones. But yeah if you don't feel 100% confident when making a group it's always good to take buffs/utility into consideration. Battle ress, hero/time warp. If you bring a DH you might want to bring a mage to utilize the 5% magic dmg buff. If you bring a monk you might want at least 2 melee to benefit from the 5% extra physical dmg, and so on.

[Mosotti]

There's nothing toxic in leaving a bad group. It's better to just let go than to endure the pain and suffering.

[pennywise377]

I have timed +21s and +22s this week with full fiesta 17-18 death runs, where nothing ever worked as intended.

Even on hard weeks, a single good player is more than enough to compensate for having 15 deaths in a +15. You can be that single player. It can be really fun trying to carry the run all on your own. Even if you end up failing the timer, you will gain invaluable experience.

True but when playing tank in some dungeons you feel like you cannot change anything in meaningful way. Pulls remain the same, because if you start pulling more allergic to kicking dps will simply start dying. Tank's dps while strong will not singlehandedly compensate for 3 lackluster dps.

Great dps on other hand would carry the team as you suggest. Yet when you are mere tank in a dungeon where you cannot really pull large, all you can do is cry in your helplessness.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I thought I would share an experience I had last night.


Playing on an alt character around 456 item level doing a +7 dungeon. It was my group and it took me about 30 minutes to get all roles. As I invite each person, during this time, nobody said one thing in party chat. No greetings, no asking for summons, no nothing. Total silence (except for me being party leader).


Finally we go in, do the /readycheck and do the /pull 10 and start the key. As soon as the M+ countdown finished the healer says, "hey guys please take it slow I'm kind of laggy today" and literally almost immediately the tank leaves.


After the tank leaves one of the DPS calls the healer a "potato healer with potato Internet" and then leaves.


The healer then blamed me for forming a bad group.

[Barzotti]

You're either sugarcoating your pug experience, or straight up lying. The M+ pug community is about as toxic as low elo league on a fresh 30 account. This is remedied by what you suggested (join a group with a discord. People in general are better players and humans there, and the toxic ones are generally less inclined to be so when they have to actually speak with you). That being said, if it's the key holder being a douche, I have no qualms with dipping. Otherwise, I will stick it out until the person with the key is done, typically.

Over the course of Legion and BfA (more than 1000 pugged keys I'd say, over more than 3 years), I encountered toxic people in maybe 2-3% of the keys.

I created a new LoL account a couple of months ago, and there was someone flaming or whining every fucking game. Even in ARAM. People trashtalking in games against bots. People can't keep their mouth shut. It's so insufferable that the only way to enjoy the game is muting everyone at the start of the game.

If you really think the M+ pug community is as toxic as the LoL one, you're straight up delusional or a part of the problem.

[Sámsa]

I thought I would share an experience I had last night.


Playing on an alt character around 456 item level doing a +7 dungeon. It was my group and it took me about 30 minutes to get all roles. As I invite each person, during this time, nobody said one thing in party chat. No greetings, no asking for summons, no nothing. Total silence (except for me being party leader).

I always kick people who manage not to say „Hi“.

In my experience 10/10 are going to be trouble somehow

[Zantera]

People being friendly and chatting before the key is almost always a good sign imo. Whenever I get a quiet group where nobody says anything or responds I get a bad feeling that usually ends with someone leaving or something similar.

[Marrilaife]

You tried to passively toss out a "low elo" insult, only after to refer to 15 as high elo, the current bottom standard for the maximum weekly chest reward.

Lol someone got butthurt. 15 isn't "high" but it isn't low, definitely does not compare to bronze league in competitive games. Probably more akin to gold, people tried to get into gold in lol for free skin and to 15s in wow for weekly chest / achievement / mount.

People are less likely to leave or trash talk and push the group to fall apart if they need the weekly and finally managed to get into a group after 30 declines. That ofc applies to people who need the weekly and aren't there only for r.io score, the second type might leave as soon as he sees his old score won't be beaten.

Now "low keys", i.e. below 10, is basically the same problem as lfr, the content is dumbed down put people seem to take it as a challenge to get dumber than the content. Cue threads about how Nzoth on LFR needs a nerf etc. The amount of idiocy you can witness indeed rivals depths of bronze in LOL where that 0/20 mid whines "bad team no help report all".

I don't know what causes this, bottom level content is fine (you group for a world boss and just zerg it), mid to high range content is manageable with typical pug headaches (pugging normal or hc raid takes ages because people constantly leave and join), but the content in between is just a complete cesspool only for masochists. Same with m+, 15s are usually ok, m0s are ok, but try to pug something between 7 and 12 and it's usually losing faith in humanity.

[Yhcti]

Update: have found a lovely group of Germans who I now run with when I can and am now farming 17-20s. Still get declined for pugs though hahaha I outperforms guys with Rio 1k higher than mine but pugs obviously know best.

[ID811717]

Update: have found a lovely group of Germans who I now run with when I can and am now farming 17-20s. Still get declined for pugs though hahaha I outperforms guys with Rio 1k higher than mine but pugs obviously know best.

If you are indeed scrapping the +20 levels, then it's no longer about the damage. I can trust you do good damage. The reason I will not invite you with much lower score is because I will have no trust in your dungeon knowledge. People with 1k higher score will always have tons more dungeon route/strats/mechanic knowledge.

We were constantly missing 1 spot in my (at the time) 3k group in Season 2. We wanted to find pugs who spoke our language because not all of us were fluent in English. So we kept giving a chance to many 2.3-2.5k players. That 500-700 score difference was nearly always a big drawback. We had to teach our pugged players a lot of new things on the voice as we go, and there was always a risk that they mess it up, since they had to learn new things on the fly from their first attempt, and under pressure.

You never stop learning when you push high keys. Every 1-2 levels increase in key level brings a lot of vital experience.

[Twdft]

As I invite each person, during this time, nobody said one thing in party chat. No greetings, no asking for summons, no nothing. Total silence (except for me being party leader).

I only pug on my lowie tanking Alts so most of the time I am 5th to join the group, say "hi" and move my ass towards the dungeon. If I get to the dungeon and noone bothered to type some kind of greeting into chat I just leave (before the key starts of course). If the simple courtasy of a greeting is too much for people you can bet that it turns ugly as soon as the smallest of mistakes occurs. Silent groups are not worth my time.

[Yhcti]

If you are indeed scrapping the +20 levels, then it's no longer about the damage. I can trust you do good damage. The reason I will not invite you with much lower score is because I will have no trust in your dungeon knowledge. People with 1k higher score will always have tons more dungeon route/strats/mechanic knowledge.

We were constantly missing 1 spot in my (at the time) 3k group in Season 2. We wanted to find pugs who spoke our language because not all of us were fluent in English. So we kept giving a chance to many 2.3-2.5k players. That 500-700 score difference was nearly always a big drawback. We had to teach our pugged players a lot of new things on the voice as we go, and there was always a risk that they mess it up, since they had to learn new things on the fly from their first attempt, and under pressure.

You never stop learning when you push high keys. Every 1-2 levels increase in key level brings a lot of vital experience.

Completely agree. I'm still learning different routes for each dungeon, tips and tricks etc. Though I am very happy in the fact that my damage taken is always bottom 2 each run whilst damage done is always top 2, pretty happy ratio there! Have also begun tanking 15-17s so another set of things to learn there which I wasn't aware of when dpsing and vice versa.

[Marrilaife]

I only pug on my lowie tanking Alts so most of the time I am 5th to join the group, say "hi" and move my ass towards the dungeon. If I get to the dungeon and noone bothered to type some kind of greeting into chat I just leave (before the key starts of course). If the simple courtasy of a greeting is too much for people you can bet that it turns ugly as soon as the smallest of mistakes occurs. Silent groups are not worth my time.

I'd rather have a silent group than be greeted with "123" "summ" "tp pls"...

If you spent 20 mins in the queue waiting for tank / healer how about you stop idling in the city or doing your WQs and start moving... It's extremely irritating when the tank and healer are last to join group but first to arrive at the dungeon. And then there's the issue of "warmode incompatible" so you need at least 3 people to summon.

[Tziva]

If you spent 20 mins in the queue waiting for tank / healer how about you stop idling in the city or doing your WQs and start moving... It's extremely irritating when the tank and healer are last to join group but first to arrive at the dungeon. And then there's the issue of "warmode incompatible" so you need at least 3 people to summon.

I don't have any issue with people who don't head to the dungeon until after they fill -- afterall if you're waiting 20 minutes for a tank why not do some quests -- but that people don't book it to the stone as soon as they fill is really irritating. I am almost always the last to join a group as the aforementioned tank or healer, but I can't remember ever being the last to arrive. Usually I'm the first or second.

The other day I signed up for a low key Mechagon on my tank alt forgetting that since I had leveled 100% via islands, not only had I not unlocked the teleport or flightpath there, but I hadn't even unlocked the boat travel to that continent yet. I started the first quest that takes you to Drustvar, then flew on my (slow speed) flying mount all the way to the island.... not only did I still beat everyone else in the group but it was another ten minutes before a second person even showed up to help me summon the rest. It was fucking ridiculous. I stayed despite that because the folks seemed nice and I didn't have anything better to do at the time, but I can say with absolute confidence almost any other person would have left when they landed at the stone after all that and everyone else was still milling around back in town.

(and returning to the silent vs chatter discussion: I've had lots of mostly silent runs, but I've actually never had a run where someone didn't at least say "hi" back when I greeted the group at the start. I don't know that I would leave, but I think I would feel real weird if that happened.)

[Kokolums]

I don't really agree on DHs/Hunters because while you are right, they tend to be very hit or miss classes. There are sooo many mediocre DHs that for every good one you'll go through 3-4 underperforming ones. But yeah if you don't feel 100% confident when making a group it's always good to take buffs/utility into consideration. Battle ress, hero/time warp. If you bring a DH you might want to bring a mage to utilize the 5% magic dmg buff. If you bring a monk you might want at least 2 melee to benefit from the 5% extra physical dmg, and so on.

I find it is not hit or miss at all if you pay attention to rio score and mythic progress. If you see one with a pretty good rio score and they've been killing mythic bosses, odds are pretty good you've got a good one.

[Highelf]

Who genuinely spends 30mins running a dungeon to leave at the last boss...

I've ran 3 keys tonight all +10 to +12's and at the end boss of each one the group has disbanded, why? what is the benefit? why not just finish the dungeon...?

I'm playing a Windwalker Monk without corruption gear, I've been EXTREMELY unlucky with drops and haven't had any drop..

I've ran 21 Freehold and Kings Rests in the last 2 weeks and haven't seen a single trinket drop which I need. My weekly chest for the passed 11 weeks has contained either Legs or Wrists, nothing else.

Rant over. This is the reason I quit previously, without guildies, nothing gets done because everyone's so fucking toxic.

That's not the definition of toxic you sheep.