As you should.
That's what is great about m+. If you find that the.pug is of substandard you can punish them. This thread should be renamed "a pug left my m+. Help me to be better"
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That's where you are wrong buddy.
The fact that people are selfish is proof that evolution likes it. Selfishness is a trait we have had since the fight against the other hominaids. If you don't like it then invite rebellion.
Fughting Being selfish is going no where and advocating against it sounds like neanderthal propaganda.
Absolutely agree! (Before someone puts words in my mouth: you gotta be careful what "high rio" means, and what a "mediocre group" means. It's easy to come up with infinite silly counter-examples. But in general the above is true.)
It's tempting to condemn any players who have the same mechanical skills and experience but a much higher score than yourself. But that's excessive. Many of them might be humble and not attempt to claim any M+ superiority over you, to start with. I can think of many reasonable examples and personalities even just off the top of my friend list. There are all kinds of reasons for that, arising from inactivity or general lack of interest (combined with being in top raiding guild, or just having hardcore M+ friends).
You said you mostly run in 4-man premade, but the same is true in full pugs. The higher the key the less likely you will run into full toxic people. One reason is because higher level pugs require everyone to join voice comms, and it's much-much harder to be toxic to someone on voice as opposed to just in chat. Another reason is that in general people who achieved more in the game are somewhat less frustrated about their progress, there is less need to lash out (but some frustration is always there). The higher progress also means players are better at identifying what went wrong in each case, so it's easier to just work on fixing the problems and staying constructive.
I agree with that.
I have been playing on and off since TBC, and I always thought the introduction of LFD in WotLK was a big loss. I wonder whether that's one of the reasons I like the high M+ pugging community (and I assume the sense of community might be similar across a larger number of world top raiding guilds). Once the number of participating players gets low enough (thousands), you start repeatedly seeing familiar faces and befriend some of them. You get more of a big-community feeling again. You don't meet all players, and you don't know 98% of the players well at all, but you know they exist and know some very basic info about many of them.
Last edited by ID811717; 2020-08-07 at 09:45 AM.
Well. If I join a key where everyone is, let's say 3k or lower, you can be darn well sure I can't always carry the group. It's actually a bigger pain to keep those people alive in 15-20 keys than it is in 20-25. I also do less dps since I have to heal more, which doesn't really help..
Just because someone is 5k+ it doesn't mean it's a guaranteed success. You'd be surprised how much people can mess up.
Hi
If you don't want to do any "cheesing" with the average PUG, up to +15 you can do this:
1) Go straight to Rezan
2) From Rezan, go on Vol'kaal side, pull first groups there, till the 1st obelisk
3) Kite this obelisk mob to the top of the stairs near Vol'kaal (on the opposite side of the big middle group)
4) Pull the group with 2 reanimated guardians near the next obelisk. Put a mark on the caster and kill it first to ease the pull
5) Take this obelisk to Vol'kaal
6) After boss, exit through rifts and jump down to the stairs
7) Clean all mobs you need to go back to entrance, and head for priestess Alun'za side
8) Kill 1st group near obelisk on Alun'za side (no need to pull the 2nd group behind)
9) Kite this obelisk mob near the big group in front of Alun'za
10) Pull this big group then the 2 priestesses on the side (no need to pull the group near stairs)
11) After boss, go down through the stairs on fire, and kill groups there to go to Yazma. You may need to pull 1 or the 2 skycreamers on top
12) Take the breaker obelisk mob with Yazma
On higher keys, you'll prefer to skip the group with 2 reanimated guardians, but it's quite easy. Either use shroud after Vol'kaal or do a solo deathskip of the middle pack. That's not a new or weird strategy, as we did that almost all season 2 (shroud/invis was used before to enter Vol'kaal area).
Then, you wand to pull away the dino group to enter central obelisk, as you've got already one obelisk to fight with Yazma. It was quite confusing for groups earlier this season, but now it's not anymore an issue with PUGs in the 18-20 range. People know what to do, just communicate and kindly ask someone to do it.
Last edited by Naville; 2020-08-07 at 11:05 AM.
Thats hard to say. I both tank and dps keys this week. If i'm dps i usually just follow the tank. My own route:
Go down to the pack on the left. Kill it and take obelisk to boss.
Hardest pack in the dungeon(that you dont skip) is the one in front of Alun'za. After her we go to the middle and take most of the trash on the way including the trash at middle pillar and the pillar itself. We then jump down to Rezan and take one of the saurid groups on the way up. THen we go back up and procees with the standard topside clear where you skip from 1 pillar to the next and use the next pillar to skip the trash in front of vol'kaal. I dont like bringing an awakened mob to yasma even on non tyrannical weeks. I pug most of the stuff i do and the dps varies a lot from group to group.
If you want to bring awakened to yasma you can do a faster clear and avoid the middle group aswell
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You dont know how RIO works if you think a player with much higher score can have the same experience as someone with a much lower score.
Perhaps you should try to understand the system before you judge it.
Last edited by ClassicPeon; 2020-08-07 at 11:25 AM.
You missed so much contextual information, I'm not sure if that's just a bad troll attempt.
Ever heard of boosts? I have boosted my fair share of friends and buyers through high timed keys. Many of them have got no experience to match their score at all. Many of them are very humble when it comes to their actual experience level. Some of them were reluctant to even get boosted... But when you have played at a more hardcore level for a while and see a natural shot-caller and leader come back to the game after a break, you will sometimes go out of your way to boost and babysit them just on the off-chance they will get interested to start pushing high keys again.
Last edited by ID811717; 2020-08-07 at 12:18 PM.
There is no way to feel bad or guilty for boosting. It is deeply ingrained in the game design, and there is no way around it for anyone who tries to play at a high level.
On top of that add food, armor repairs (including Auto-Hammer items), speed pots, invisibility pots, profession items (like Shimmerscale Diving Suit and Unstable Temporal Time Shifter), drums, respec tomes, enchants, gems, and so on... Each is situational, but it all adds up.
(The above quotes are from 1 year old posts, the expenses are obviously different nowadays).
Last edited by ID811717; 2020-08-07 at 12:54 PM.
Those are pretty much the routes that I used in both tries. But they both feel awful. You're wasting so much time running zigzag through the dungeon, fighting annoying trash that you'd rather skip but can't, etc.
I don't trust pugs to pull that off in +15s. The average pug player is usually already overwhelmed with their base rotation. Everything that involves more than an "anyway I started blasting" level of competence from pug dps is something I'd like to avoid
And mages.
To simplify things, it's very common in low keys that someone just pulls the pack away from the pillar and dies. Then respawns, enters the portal on either side of the entrance (we still speaking about AD) and runs inside portal to rejoin the rest in the group. This way, no combat drop mechanics are needed, and any non-tank player can do that.
What do you expect actually? A speedrun route where you snap half the dungeon on Rezan? Not going to happen with PUGs.
You can use the one with the skip of the 2 reanimated guardians and the bait of the dino pack on your everyday keys. Successfully did it on a +21 with my prot warrior.