Toxic M+ Leavers

[Your Mommy]

Wouldn't it be better if they made it possible to find replacements for lower level keys? For an example, if you need to do 10+ to get the best out of the weekly chest, then make it so that finding replacement for leavers is possible if you're doing a 10+ or lower key.
Also, to prevent people from abusing this system, make replacements only possible if one of the players has left, not removed from group (to prevent toxicity)

[ChieChie]

... but I bet you are type of person, which is very, very toxic and rude in rl...

cuz i dont tolarate false advertising? if some one types "EZ 3 CHEST GOGO" on a rnd +18 key wich i have timed on +26 then i expect it to be a 3 chest cuz theres nothing hard about a +18 farm key even for casuals with all the corruption around

[Relapses]

cuz i dont tolarate false advertising? if some one types "EZ 3 CHEST GOGO" on a rnd +18 key wich i have timed on +26 then i expect it to be a 3 chest cuz theres nothing hard about a +18 farm key even for casuals with all the corruption around

You do realize 99% of the playerbase doesn't even do +18s... much less +3 them, right? Saying shit like "even casuals can +3 an 18" is a gross overstatement of the average skill level of most WoW players (especially on this forum).

[T-34]

What does Blizzard think about this issue:
"
Common Problems

Group wiped while doing a mythic plus and the player we invited to our group left
I just started a mythic plus run and a member left

Customer Support does not upgrade, restore, or create keystones. Running the dungeon again with the downgraded keystone will award a new upgraded keystone, as long as finished within the time limit."
https://eu.battle.net/support/en/article/117469

Blizzard says that it doesn't want to get involved.

If we combine this with Blizzard's kick policy where Blizzard gives it definition on what is a justified kick reason:
"Groups are empowered to manage their own members through the vote-kick system. If the majority of the group feels a player should be removed, they can initiate a vote-kick to remove them. The system is entirely under the control of our players. Players may choose to remove any other player from the group for any reason, provided the vote to kick passes."
https://eu.battle.net/support/en/article/52363

So Blizzard is telling us that it doesn't want to get involved and that you can kick anybody for any reason whatsoever = all reasons are equally valid.

I'll dare to draw the following conclusion from the above:
If Blizzard consider all kick reasons equally valid, then it should be logical that Blizzard considers all reason to leave a group equally valid.
So anybody can do whatever they want in a dungeon. And that is supported by Blizzard.

[Kaver]

... but I bet you are type of person, which is very, very toxic and rude in rl...

Why? Because he doesn’t want to carry bad players for free?

Bad players that try to lure good players into their groups with false advertisement are straight up scammers. They are the toxic ones. Calling out scammers for what they are is not be toxic or rude.

[Arainie]

Is it more disgusting then trying to force your own morals onto others? Why should a player think about others when it will do harm to themselves?

What harm will helping someone else do to you? Cost you an extra few minutes out of your day in order to make someone elses day better?

ME taking time out of MY day to help someone else?! PREPOSTEROUS!

[Firebert]

I was specifically talking about punishing leavers within the current system:

I'm of the opinion that you can't effectively punish players if players are in almost full control over it. Having bonus loot from the multi-chest (carrot!) and removing loot from the dungeon is likely to help, but not solve, issues of people leaving.

It's good that M+ isn't just left to die as is and sees some evolution; this should be the beginning of a bigger rework if its prevalent issues persist.

If Blizzard consider all kick reasons equally valid, then it should be logical that Blizzard considers all reason to leave a group equally valid.
So anybody can do whatever they want in a dungeon. And that is supported by Blizzard.

I agree with you, but can't help be disappointed by it.

[ChieChie]

You do realize 99% of the playerbase doesn't even do +18s... much less +3 them, right? Saying shit like "even casuals can +3 an 18" is a gross overstatement of the average skill level of most WoW players (especially on this forum).

+18 keys with 180 corruption are hard as +12 maybe +13 keys from 6 months ago im not even joking, this why i asume that casuals can do them all they have to do is to press their rota on 50% efficiency and dont die to rnd shit

[Asrialol]

If I join and see the tank doesn't have T3 Devastation, that's a /ignore and /leave

If I join and see the tank IS running any rank of TD and it's a high (25+) key, I'll assume he forgot to swap to his correct gearset.

Tanks don't run TD for serious keys.

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this is the most common problem, bads with low/bought score inv mediocre player (2-3k ish io) in hopes of pushing thier score for free and as soon those players see that the leader is a troll/bough hes io and puls wrong or has a wrong route they leave cuz why wipe on keys you have 3 chested not even the echos are worth a 30+ min key, i do the same when ever i get invt with my 4,5k io score or my alts into a 2k grp that claims "EZ ECHO" or "EZ 3 CHEST" and they wipe i insta leave and i dont consider this being toxic

It is kinda toxic. You join a low io group and expect them to play to the mediocre level you're at?

A mediocre player these days is pretty much everyone below 5k. So.. You're not a big boy, which you seem to think you are.

[Kaver]

If I join and see the tank IS running any rank of TD and it's a high (25+) key, I'll assume he forgot to swap to his correct gearset.

Tanks don't run TD for serious keys.

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It is kinda toxic. You join a low io group and expect them to play to the mediocre level you're at?

A mediocre player these days is pretty much everyone below 5k. So.. You're not a big boy, which you seem to think you are.

You’re also being kinda toxic right now. Being toxic towards a toxic person is still being toxic.

[SkagenRora]

I'm scared of even going to a +13 and people in here are saying +18 is easy. weird stuff

[ID811717]

I'm scared of even going to a +13 and people in here are saying +18 is easy. weird stuff

Nothing weird. Some of us have played this game like it was our full time job, and more. Most time spent inside raids and dungeons, playing meta classes.





If +18s (or even +23s) were not completely trivial afterwards, one would have to ask some hard questions. (My play times are on the low end of such people. I had to take more breaks than most.)

But mere timed keys is not enough of a payoff from having wasted so much time. Coming to forums and low level pugs to farm awe and praise for being supposedly superior might become necessary for some. I probably helps with one's validation and self-esteem.

All you need is 3 minutes to see if the key is in time or not as a experienced m+ player, i for example left low key today on my druid heal (+23 KR) after the 3 dps + tank didnt interupt 2 shadowboltvolleys, all had 3,6- 4,1k score prob boosted by guild who knows anyways this is the point were you see how handicapped the palyers in your grp are and leave.

this is the most common problem, bads with low/bought score inv mediocre player (2-3k ish io) in hopes of pushing thier score for free and as soon those players see that the leader is a troll/bough hes io and puls wrong or has a wrong route they leave cuz why wipe on keys you have 3 chested not even the echos are worth a 30+ min key, i do the same when ever i get invt with my 4,5k io score or my alts into a 2k grp that claims "EZ ECHO" or "EZ 3 CHEST" and they wipe i insta leave and i dont consider this being toxic

cuz i dont tolarate false advertising? if some one types "EZ 3 CHEST GOGO" on a rnd +18 key wich i have timed on +26 then i expect it to be a 3 chest cuz theres nothing hard about a +18 farm key even for casuals with all the corruption around

The problem with the above quotes is that the whole notion of being an "experienced player" implies an ability to assess the difficulty of different dungeon/affix combinations, and also an ability to assess what might go wrong in a group of lower experience. It is pretty clear that both of the above examples (the first being from 3 months ago, on a tyrannical week) show that these posters do have the experience to make the obvious judgments, or they are deliberately shooting themselves in the foot (aka "today I joined an obviously bad group with a funny description just so I can waste my time and quit it after 15 min"), or they are just trying to show off for how experienced they are by proving contrived and hypocritical examples.

[ChieChie]

The problem with the above quotes is that the whole notion of being an "experienced player" implies an ability to assess the difficulty of different dungeon/affix combinations, and also an ability to assess what might go wrong in a group of lower experience. It is pretty clear that both of the above examples (the first being from 3 months ago, on a tyrannical week) show that these posters do have the experience to make the obvious judgments, or they are deliberately shooting themselves in the foot (aka "today I joined an obviously bad group with a funny description just so I can waste my time and quit it after 15 min"), or they are just trying to show off for how experienced they are by proving contrived and hypocritical examples.

I dont know, i can understad the dude leaving the grp after a SV insta kills your grp on a 23 KR because no one bodered to kick (including the tank whos only purpose it is to kick it, in normal grps) 23 KR 3-4 months ago on tyranical was no joke 1 wipe and the key was RIP

and honestly those ppl deserv it, especially the one open the grp with "EZ 3 CHEST BIG DICKS ONLY GOGO" and i farm echos for a corruption set ill bolt as soon as they start to play wrong/troll, if you advertising your grp as "BIG DICK 3 CHEST" then you have to live with the fact that ppl bolt if its not the case.
I would never join a "+15 no leavers pls" and leave the grp just to fuck some one up thats not cool

[ID811717]

I dont know, i can understad the dude leaving the grp after a SV insta kills your grp on a 23 KR because no one bodered to kick (including the tank whos only purpose it is to kick it, in normal grps) 23 KR 3-4 months ago on tyranical was no joke 1 wipe and the key was RIP

Yea the key was dead, no question.

But there were 14 timed KR +23 tyrannical runs and 0 timed KR +24 tyrannical runs in the world at the time. (Fun fact, even right now, the top timed KR tyrannical keys are three +25s). A random guy calling it "low key" was the first red flag in that post.

The implied agency (and conflict) in the "I left" is another red flag. Everyone is on voice comms in higher pug keys, and a full wipe at the start of KR nearly always leads to everyone happily agreeing to ditch the key (more often than not, it's agreed upon from the start.. no one likes suffering through 1h long weekly tyrannical KR runs for no good reason). There's a lot of context regarding group dynamics and communication in high key pugs that is completely invisible to most of the readers here (as displayed in the responses for the anxiety post).

Overall it's a rather obvious attention seeking post.

and honestly those ppl deserv it, especially the one open the grp with "EZ 3 CHEST BIG DICKS ONLY GOGO" and i farm echos for a corruption set ill bolt as soon as they start to play wrong/troll, if you advertising your grp as "BIG DICK 3 CHEST" then you have to live with the fact that ppl bolt if its not the case.

False advertising is bad.

But it's so easy to tell if group is capable to smash the dungeon before starting the "farm" key, and often before even queuing up. Raider.io scores, previous/recent raider.io runs, guild names, raiding progress, group comp, does it look like the group members know each other, how people communicate with each other before the run (e.g. over-excited players discussing the route - bad sign... complete silence - may be they are friends together on discord).

Also, in my experience, most "2 chest" and "3 chest" pugs are never good, it's all wishful thinking. Having to advertise it as "X chest" run implies they absolutely need you (and everyone else invited) to hard-carry to 3-chests... If it's a good pre-made looking for 1-2 empty spots, they are often sure they will 2- (or 3-) chest it regardless of whom they will invite, and have no need to advertise it specifically.

[Watchers]

i hate m+ since legion toxicity, no thanks

[Th3Scourge]

Then good luck going 22+ keys where tanks stack full versatility and no TD or stuff.
At least the group and tank don't have to carry a baddy that relies on a tank that does a tiny bit more dps for taking a shit ton more!

Hahahahahahaha if you're tank needs to stack full vers for a 22, you need to find a better tank

[dacoolist]

I'm scared of even going to a +13 and people in here are saying +18 is easy. weird stuff

With corruptions and essences plus azerite armor, these 15's are no match for a group decked out. Even someone like me had 0 issues getting all 15's done in time, these are all pugs too btw, I never have a set group these days (unless you mean running 2-3 with that same team a static group lol)

You can easily do all the 15's in time, it's when you get up over like 17 that they become insta kill on mess ups and stuff like that, where too many deaths and you just cant beat the timer

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Hahahahahahaha if you're tank needs to stack full vers for a 22, you need to find a better tank

I think those M+ gods at the top stack verse a lot now because of the damage right

Now I'm talking M+30's etc, tbh I have no idea what a 22 requires

[Th3Scourge]

I think those M+ gods at the top stack verse a lot now because of the damage right

Now I'm talking M+30's etc, tbh I have no idea what a 22 requires

At high level keys you definitely need to stack vers so you don't get destroyed but 22s will get assblasted by a semi-competent group. 22s were a thing like 3-4 months ago, pre corruption vendor, true corruption stacking and low resistance.

[Bloodyleech]

Hahahahahahaha if you're tank needs to stack full vers for a 22, you need to find a better tank

Or you should understand the very basics of m+ and vers stacking, especially in pugs.
Try doing those keys with tanks that got no vers - they WILL die, very fast.
Obviously this is about pugs - premades are a completely different thing.

[Th3Scourge]

Or you should understand the very basics of m+ and vers stacking, especially in pugs.
Try doing those keys with tanks that got no vers - they WILL die, very fast.
Obviously this is about pugs - premades are a completely different thing.

No, that applies to pugs too. The damage output is not significant enough to require full vers stacking on every piece of gear.

Even I do a random pug key as Blood every now and then there's no reason to remove any TDs below a 23-24