Toxic M+ Leavers

[Tiwack]

Excellent example of why the combination of rating addons and timed content is a disaste for most puggers. It leaves any and all reward at the end where it's unattainable to the ones that need it the most.

[Gestopft]

I tried to heal a +10 WM yesterday on my paladin alt (451 equipped, enough to heal a +10 but not enough to be really comfortable).

The warrior tank was... questionable. He didn't know where to go, what to pull, and took an insane amount of damage every pull (I went oom a couple times, and it's almost impossible to be oom as a hpal).

We must've had the same warrior tank. The tank I had in my Pally's run last week was an absolute mana sponge. He'd leap off to the next pull and be half dead by the time I got in range to heal him.

[AidanJLowe]

On the runecaster pull between the first and second boss, everyone but me and the tank died -- one person twice. Other than saying "stand in the rune if you get targeted, guys" after the first death on him

Had this in my run last night. Although I should of used the miniboss in a +10 to skip these on bolstering week I didn't and they didn't know to stand in the pool to reduce damage, they clearly weren't aware or listening to me as this miniboss resulted in 14 deaths all to the carve ability, I literally ended up soloing it because everytime they corpse ran back they died instantly because of not standing in the pool.

Was hilarious but annoying at the same time. I don't mind people not knowing but to not listen to what I'm telling them is something else, in the end the healer left that run and that was that.

[odamienskii]

What you may not realise is raider io can be seen your record of recent dungeons, party leaders check recent runs, if someone is depleting a 12 they must be very bad is what most ppl would think, i know personally if i was in a 12 key and it was even close to being a deplete the ppl in it must be absolutely disastrous in terms of skill level.

[Pandragon]

Rant over. This is the reason I quit previously, without guildies, nothing gets done because everyone's so fucking toxic.

Imagine having this happen when in my shoes. I spend 3 hours just trying to find a group because I dont have a 2k io score, or I'm not 475 for a +10, dont even know why IO shows your alts when no pays attention to your linked main on there, my main is 475 btw. I can't even play my alt anymore cause of how people are now.

[Twdft]

Imagine having this happen when in my shoes. I spend 3 hours just trying to find a group because I dont have a 2k io score, or I'm not 475 for a +10, dont even know why IO shows your alts when no pays attention to your linked main on there, my main is 475 btw. I can't even play my alt anymore cause of how people are now.

Someone stole your key?

[Pandragon]

Someone stole your key?

I stopped trying to boost my own key a long time ago. I have really bad luck with that. I join a group and we complete it, I start my own group and there's always one person who doesn't pull his weight and drags us down. Back during BOD I think it was, I invited a mythic BoD geared warrior, did less damage than the tank.

And if you think I'm kidding about my pugging, 2 hours of queuing this morning, I finally got invited to a +10 AD. Tank has no clue how to do obelisks, the boomkin called him bad names, and the hunter and healer argued over who we go to after Rezzan, and the group disbanded.

[Xath]

I stopped trying to boost my own key a long time ago. I have really bad luck with that. I join a group and we complete it, I start my own group and there's always one person who doesn't pull his weight and drags us down. Back during BOD I think it was, I invited a mythic BoD geared warrior, did less damage than the tank.

And if you think I'm kidding about my pugging, 2 hours of queuing this morning, I finally got invited to a +10 AD. Tank has no clue how to do obelisks, the boomkin called him bad names, and the hunter and healer argued over who we go to after Rezzan, and the group disbanded.

which is why you use r.io to determine your groups not ilvl

[Pandragon]

which is why you use r.io to determine your groups not ilvl

Not just that, I also quit starting my own group when it started taking 2 hours to find a freaking tank. And IO is a double edged sword for both sides. You either get a good player, or someone who bought their runs and have no clue what they are doing. Then you have people like me, who are always top dps and do things properly, but doesn't have a 2k score because I only do my 1 run of the week. This result is cause IO only shows completion and not how the person actually did during the dungeon.

[Twdft]

Then you have people like me, who are always top dps and do things properly, but doesn't have a 2k score because I only do my 1 run of the week.

Any suggestion how to determine that you are always top dps and do things properly, without the current iteration of raider.io?

[Marrilaife]

party leaders check recent runs, if someone is depleting a 12 they must be very bad is what most ppl would think,

1 person doesn't make the whole group, especially in cases where a group is boosting someone, paid boosts are usually paid to be on time but I mean cases like "hey a guildie just levelled an alt let's help him gear up", and depending if it's a casual guild or not, it could be they would time a 12 with 5 of their mains but wouldn't with a carry. I'm talking about guilds where people normally don't run high keys or raid mythic.

Also could be someone dced / bailed and they finished 4 man.

But anyway if you see low key that is depleted you can look for some obvious carries, esp. now when xp buff is up and everyone is lvling alts.

I also quit starting my own group when it started taking 2 hours to find a freaking tank.

Well if people weren't crapping on inexperienced and undeargeared tanks, this would be less of an issue.

Also I wonder what goes through heads of people when they whisper 470+ ilvl strangers idling in main city to help them with their +7. If you need help, ask friends / guildies or someone who would at least have any remote interest of doing a low key.

[Wysmark]

which is why you use r.io to determine your groups not ilvl

Doesnt that addon just show how great you are at being carried? I assume my score sucks because I only do 1-2 Mythics a week that I have to PuG. I consider myself decent enough.. my pugs less so

[Ssateneth]

Excellent example of why the combination of rating addons and timed content is a disaste for most puggers. It leaves any and all reward at the end where it's unattainable to the ones that need it the most.

but why do they need it? What content are they doing that needs the gear at the end of the dungeon? world quests? pet battles? danceoffs in orgrimmar?

[bajcli]

Doesnt that addon just show how great you are at being carried? I assume my score sucks because I only do 1-2 Mythics a week that I have to PuG. I consider myself decent enough.. my pugs less so

even if that was true (which it clearly isn't), it would still be reason enough to invite higher scored people, because it shows that they put more time and effort into m+ than all these supposedly amazing players with no credentials whatsoever, who "just don't have a high score because I don't play a lot"

[deenman]

Doesnt that addon just show how great you are at being carried? I assume my score sucks because I only do 1-2 Mythics a week that I have to PuG. I consider myself decent enough.. my pugs less so

no1 is getting carried in 20+

[Relapses]

Also could be someone dced / bailed and they finished 4 man.

This. I have a group of two friends whom I typically do M+ with. I'm usually DPS, they're a tank/healer combo. Due to personality issues, our healer got extremely upset in a +14 KR that was going poorly but not exceptionally so. He left on the third boss and we managed to kill the whole thing sans-healer. This left us with a four-man group and no healer. I didn't have a heal spec so my tank friend left the instance and respec'd to Holy and our DH respec'd to tank. The DH had never tanked anything in his life and my buddy was healing with Prot Azerite traits. Even though we only had two or three pulls and the last boss, this did not go over well. Eventually, through the grace of God and small miracles, we corpse ran our way to the final boss. This was also an uphill battle but we eventually prevailed, nearly an hour over the time limit. The Warrior in our group wanted the weapon and I was bored. (We both got nothing.)

M+ is generally pretty easy, though shit does happen in these runs (and honestly I should probably find a new group of friends to play with because they both have a tendency to be emotional) so depleting keys shouldn't be the only thing that people judge a group by.

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End of the day, I know I'm a skilled tank, and I also know enough not to expect perfect execution every time I go in, especially for the first time. I've also taken a huge amount of shit from impatient players over the course of my career, and I want nothing more to do with any of it. I could have just dealt with the pally pulling, but it freaking sucks to have someone else constantly trying to show you up (also, increases chances of wipes if I pull one group while he pulls another), leaves you reacting to them, and not to the dungeon. I'm done with it. As soon as we got to the end, he pulled the usual thing where he tried to say one final insult after the dungeon was done, he started and said, "By the way, tank", and I had him on ignore before the next sentence was out.

Honestly just stop telling people you're new. It's not going to get you brownie points in a PuG. Nobody is going to be nicer to you because you're new -- in fact, as you've learned, the exact opposite is true. Just do the run and if people start complaining make up bullshit about being distracted by a baby or something. People won't know the difference and the run will likely be smoother.

[lollerlaban]

Tried a WM +8 as a healer, yes a +8 on an alt right when the new season started.

Sisters took 9 minutes to kill, 9 minutes. That's when i leave

[Cleansing Totem]

I’m a new character. I got to 435 yesterday and said, hmmm, let me try normal Nyalotha. Find a group, raid leader rejects me. I ask what item level he’s looking for. He says 460+ but he will take 455 if the person is really good.

Normal nyalotha drops 445.

So to answer your question: people need it because it’s there. It’s so easy to get overpowered gear that everyone expects you to have it to raid anything. It’s stupid, but it’s blizz’s fault for their philosophy of giving power upgrades endlessly regardless of what you did to earn them.

Item level really means next to nothing these days. Not to mention people have been making fast clear groups forever. What stopped you from making your own Normal raid and inviting people at 435?

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Just a rough guess after looking at my characters, I have probably ran about 600 m+ in BfA give or take. Here is my experience.

1. Lower keys are far more toxic then higher keys.

2. 99% of the time I leave a key is if I feel like there was some false advertising. If I join a group that says 2/3 chest and we cant make it to the first boss I am out.

3. Its really not that toxic, out of all my runs I bet I have left maybe 40 keys the entire expansion. In all those runs there has been only a few assholes talking shit or people dicks. I feel like this whole thing abotu m+ being this cesspool is greatly exaggerated, and for the most part its people expecting to be carried that are complaining.

[Cleansing Totem]

I know “make your own group” is the favorite passive aggressive response of people on the forums but I’m going to state something obvious that you clearly don’t seem to realize:

No one wants to join a raid in March 2020 where the raid leader doesn’t know the fights. That’s just true.

I would love it if blizzard supported puffing a bit more and actually made a good raid finder where you could be more specific about the type of group you are running, but as is there’s no place for me to do that as a self professed noob.

In a month I’m sure I will be raid leading because heroic raids are super easy and I can’t do mythic. But right now? Nope.

And it’s not just carry runs, it’s because people have 460 item level having only run normal because of the power creep philosophy.

It's not passive aggressive though. it's just the truth. You have to understand that your most likely not going to get into raids/m+ at lower item levels. So take that time to grind out some lower keys.

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M+ shouldn't be timed before 10. It causes way too much drama.

I'm a new tank. Obviously I'm not going to do things perfectly the first time. My experience so far in 3 mythic plus dungeons:

1. A plus 2. Had a paladin healer who was pulling everything because he was annoyed at my speed (again, my first ever m+, which I shared with the group beforehand). After a bit, I asked him to stop, no response. I asked again, no response. Third time I said, "Are you just not going to stop pulling?" Still no response. Fourth time I just let the group wipe and watched. He stopped. We plus 2'd the dungeon, he was flaming me the entire rest of the place.

2. Another plus 2. I told group that I was new to tanking m+, and the healer actually complimented me on not taking a lot of damage. We way overshot the add count and one guy got annoyed. We wiped a couple times because someone was pulling extra adds and everyone started yelling at each other, and I outhealed a terrible healer (he was doing under 10k), but we plus 1'd again. Fine.

3. A plus 5, nice group. One of the dps left with 3 bosses to go and we wiped once. Barely missed the timer 4 manning the rest of the way. Again, nice group of guys, didn't mind that I didn't know my way around.

End of the day, I know I'm a skilled tank, and I also know enough not to expect perfect execution every time I go in, especially for the first time. I've also taken a huge amount of shit from impatient players over the course of my career, and I want nothing more to do with any of it. I could have just dealt with the pally pulling, but it freaking sucks to have someone else constantly trying to show you up (also, increases chances of wipes if I pull one group while he pulls another), leaves you reacting to them, and not to the dungeon. I'm done with it. As soon as we got to the end, he pulled the usual thing where he tried to say one final insult after the dungeon was done, he started and said, "By the way, tank", and I had him on ignore before the next sentence was out.

Lower keys are the worst. If you can push through that it gets much better.

[kamuimac]

Imagine having this happen when in my shoes. I spend 3 hours just trying to find a group because I dont have a 2k io score, or I'm not 475 for a +10, dont even know why IO shows your alts when no pays attention to your linked main on there, my main is 475 btw. I can't even play my alt anymore cause of how people are now.

or maybe its time to admit that game is overtuned for majority of audience and its time to make separate tournament realms with compeltly separate difficulty from rest of game.