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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    which is why you use r.io to determine your groups not ilvl
    Doesnt that addon just show how great you are at being carried? I assume my score sucks because I only do 1-2 Mythics a week that I have to PuG. I consider myself decent enough.. my pugs less so

  2. #162
    M+ shouldn't be timed before 10. It causes way too much drama.

    I'm a new tank. Obviously I'm not going to do things perfectly the first time. My experience so far in 3 mythic plus dungeons:

    1. A plus 2. Had a paladin healer who was pulling everything because he was annoyed at my speed (again, my first ever m+, which I shared with the group beforehand). After a bit, I asked him to stop, no response. I asked again, no response. Third time I said, "Are you just not going to stop pulling?" Still no response. Fourth time I just let the group wipe and watched. He stopped. We plus 2'd the dungeon, he was flaming me the entire rest of the place.

    2. Another plus 2. I told group that I was new to tanking m+, and the healer actually complimented me on not taking a lot of damage. We way overshot the add count and one guy got annoyed. We wiped a couple times because someone was pulling extra adds and everyone started yelling at each other, and I outhealed a terrible healer (he was doing under 10k), but we plus 1'd again. Fine.

    3. A plus 5, nice group. One of the dps left with 3 bosses to go and we wiped once. Barely missed the timer 4 manning the rest of the way. Again, nice group of guys, didn't mind that I didn't know my way around.

    End of the day, I know I'm a skilled tank, and I also know enough not to expect perfect execution every time I go in, especially for the first time. I've also taken a huge amount of shit from impatient players over the course of my career, and I want nothing more to do with any of it. I could have just dealt with the pally pulling, but it freaking sucks to have someone else constantly trying to show you up (also, increases chances of wipes if I pull one group while he pulls another), leaves you reacting to them, and not to the dungeon. I'm done with it. As soon as we got to the end, he pulled the usual thing where he tried to say one final insult after the dungeon was done, he started and said, "By the way, tank", and I had him on ignore before the next sentence was out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiwack View Post
    Excellent example of why the combination of rating addons and timed content is a disaste for most puggers. It leaves any and all reward at the end where it's unattainable to the ones that need it the most.
    but why do they need it? What content are they doing that needs the gear at the end of the dungeon? world quests? pet battles? danceoffs in orgrimmar?

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Wysmark View Post
    Doesnt that addon just show how great you are at being carried? I assume my score sucks because I only do 1-2 Mythics a week that I have to PuG. I consider myself decent enough.. my pugs less so
    even if that was true (which it clearly isn't), it would still be reason enough to invite higher scored people, because it shows that they put more time and effort into m+ than all these supposedly amazing players with no credentials whatsoever, who "just don't have a high score because I don't play a lot"

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Wysmark View Post
    Doesnt that addon just show how great you are at being carried? I assume my score sucks because I only do 1-2 Mythics a week that I have to PuG. I consider myself decent enough.. my pugs less so
    no1 is getting carried in 20+

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    Also could be someone dced / bailed and they finished 4 man.
    This. I have a group of two friends whom I typically do M+ with. I'm usually DPS, they're a tank/healer combo. Due to personality issues, our healer got extremely upset in a +14 KR that was going poorly but not exceptionally so. He left on the third boss and we managed to kill the whole thing sans-healer. This left us with a four-man group and no healer. I didn't have a heal spec so my tank friend left the instance and respec'd to Holy and our DH respec'd to tank. The DH had never tanked anything in his life and my buddy was healing with Prot Azerite traits. Even though we only had two or three pulls and the last boss, this did not go over well. Eventually, through the grace of God and small miracles, we corpse ran our way to the final boss. This was also an uphill battle but we eventually prevailed, nearly an hour over the time limit. The Warrior in our group wanted the weapon and I was bored. (We both got nothing.)

    M+ is generally pretty easy, though shit does happen in these runs (and honestly I should probably find a new group of friends to play with because they both have a tendency to be emotional) so depleting keys shouldn't be the only thing that people judge a group by.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    End of the day, I know I'm a skilled tank, and I also know enough not to expect perfect execution every time I go in, especially for the first time. I've also taken a huge amount of shit from impatient players over the course of my career, and I want nothing more to do with any of it. I could have just dealt with the pally pulling, but it freaking sucks to have someone else constantly trying to show you up (also, increases chances of wipes if I pull one group while he pulls another), leaves you reacting to them, and not to the dungeon. I'm done with it. As soon as we got to the end, he pulled the usual thing where he tried to say one final insult after the dungeon was done, he started and said, "By the way, tank", and I had him on ignore before the next sentence was out.
    Honestly just stop telling people you're new. It's not going to get you brownie points in a PuG. Nobody is going to be nicer to you because you're new -- in fact, as you've learned, the exact opposite is true. Just do the run and if people start complaining make up bullshit about being distracted by a baby or something. People won't know the difference and the run will likely be smoother.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Honestly just stop telling people you're new. It's not going to get you brownie points in a PuG. Nobody is going to be nicer to you because you're new -- in fact, as you've learned, the exact opposite is true. Just do the run and if people start complaining make up bullshit about being distracted by a baby or something. People won't know the difference and the run will likely be smoother.
    Some people will just not invite you and that's fine with me. If you don't want a new tank, don't invite one. You're right though, the leader is only one of the 4 people and any of them can start flaming at any time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  8. #168
    Tried a WM +8 as a healer, yes a +8 on an alt right when the new season started.

    Sisters took 9 minutes to kill, 9 minutes. That's when i leave

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Ssateneth View Post
    but why do they need it? What content are they doing that needs the gear at the end of the dungeon? world quests? pet battles? danceoffs in orgrimmar?
    I’m a new character. I got to 435 yesterday and said, hmmm, let me try normal Nyalotha. Find a group, raid leader rejects me. I ask what item level he’s looking for. He says 460+ but he will take 455 if the person is really good.

    Normal nyalotha drops 445.

    So to answer your question: people need it because it’s there. It’s so easy to get overpowered gear that everyone expects you to have it to raid anything. It’s stupid, but it’s blizz’s fault for their philosophy of giving power upgrades endlessly regardless of what you did to earn them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    I’m a new character. I got to 435 yesterday and said, hmmm, let me try normal Nyalotha. Find a group, raid leader rejects me. I ask what item level he’s looking for. He says 460+ but he will take 455 if the person is really good.

    Normal nyalotha drops 445.

    So to answer your question: people need it because it’s there. It’s so easy to get overpowered gear that everyone expects you to have it to raid anything. It’s stupid, but it’s blizz’s fault for their philosophy of giving power upgrades endlessly regardless of what you did to earn them.
    Item level really means next to nothing these days. Not to mention people have been making fast clear groups forever. What stopped you from making your own Normal raid and inviting people at 435?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just a rough guess after looking at my characters, I have probably ran about 600 m+ in BfA give or take. Here is my experience.

    1. Lower keys are far more toxic then higher keys.

    2. 99% of the time I leave a key is if I feel like there was some false advertising. If I join a group that says 2/3 chest and we cant make it to the first boss I am out.

    3. Its really not that toxic, out of all my runs I bet I have left maybe 40 keys the entire expansion. In all those runs there has been only a few assholes talking shit or people dicks. I feel like this whole thing abotu m+ being this cesspool is greatly exaggerated, and for the most part its people expecting to be carried that are complaining.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleansing Totem View Post
    Item level really means next to nothing these days. Not to mention people have been making fast clear groups forever. What stopped you from making your own Normal raid and inviting people at 435?
    I know “make your own group” is the favorite passive aggressive response of people on the forums but I’m going to state something obvious that you clearly don’t seem to realize:

    No one wants to join a raid in March 2020 where the raid leader doesn’t know the fights. That’s just true.

    I would love it if blizzard supported puffing a bit more and actually made a good raid finder where you could be more specific about the type of group you are running, but as is there’s no place for me to do that as a self professed noob.

    In a month I’m sure I will be raid leading because heroic raids are super easy and I can’t do mythic. But right now? Nope.

    And it’s not just carry runs, it’s because people have 460 item level having only run normal because of the power creep philosophy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    I know “make your own group” is the favorite passive aggressive response of people on the forums but I’m going to state something obvious that you clearly don’t seem to realize:

    No one wants to join a raid in March 2020 where the raid leader doesn’t know the fights. That’s just true.

    I would love it if blizzard supported puffing a bit more and actually made a good raid finder where you could be more specific about the type of group you are running, but as is there’s no place for me to do that as a self professed noob.

    In a month I’m sure I will be raid leading because heroic raids are super easy and I can’t do mythic. But right now? Nope.

    And it’s not just carry runs, it’s because people have 460 item level having only run normal because of the power creep philosophy.
    It's not passive aggressive though. it's just the truth. You have to understand that your most likely not going to get into raids/m+ at lower item levels. So take that time to grind out some lower keys.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    M+ shouldn't be timed before 10. It causes way too much drama.

    I'm a new tank. Obviously I'm not going to do things perfectly the first time. My experience so far in 3 mythic plus dungeons:

    1. A plus 2. Had a paladin healer who was pulling everything because he was annoyed at my speed (again, my first ever m+, which I shared with the group beforehand). After a bit, I asked him to stop, no response. I asked again, no response. Third time I said, "Are you just not going to stop pulling?" Still no response. Fourth time I just let the group wipe and watched. He stopped. We plus 2'd the dungeon, he was flaming me the entire rest of the place.

    2. Another plus 2. I told group that I was new to tanking m+, and the healer actually complimented me on not taking a lot of damage. We way overshot the add count and one guy got annoyed. We wiped a couple times because someone was pulling extra adds and everyone started yelling at each other, and I outhealed a terrible healer (he was doing under 10k), but we plus 1'd again. Fine.

    3. A plus 5, nice group. One of the dps left with 3 bosses to go and we wiped once. Barely missed the timer 4 manning the rest of the way. Again, nice group of guys, didn't mind that I didn't know my way around.

    End of the day, I know I'm a skilled tank, and I also know enough not to expect perfect execution every time I go in, especially for the first time. I've also taken a huge amount of shit from impatient players over the course of my career, and I want nothing more to do with any of it. I could have just dealt with the pally pulling, but it freaking sucks to have someone else constantly trying to show you up (also, increases chances of wipes if I pull one group while he pulls another), leaves you reacting to them, and not to the dungeon. I'm done with it. As soon as we got to the end, he pulled the usual thing where he tried to say one final insult after the dungeon was done, he started and said, "By the way, tank", and I had him on ignore before the next sentence was out.
    Lower keys are the worst. If you can push through that it gets much better.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    Imagine having this happen when in my shoes. I spend 3 hours just trying to find a group because I dont have a 2k io score, or I'm not 475 for a +10, dont even know why IO shows your alts when no pays attention to your linked main on there, my main is 475 btw. I can't even play my alt anymore cause of how people are now.
    or maybe its time to admit that game is overtuned for majority of audience and its time to make separate tournament realms with compeltly separate difficulty from rest of game.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    I'm a new tank. Obviously I'm not going to do things perfectly the first time. My experience so far in 3 mythic plus dungeons:
    I reset my account to reply to this post. If you're on the US realms and want to pair with me until you learn the ropes, send me a DM with your battle tag. I'm a healer.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    I’m a new character. I got to 435 yesterday and said, hmmm, let me try normal Nyalotha. Find a group, raid leader rejects me. I ask what item level he’s looking for. He says 460+ but he will take 455 if the person is really good.

    Normal nyalotha drops 445.
    There's only 1 solution to this: high ilvl people should stop queue for normal. Then his group will never fill and he will have to give up or get off his high horse.

    At least it's a bit less "bad" than in legion where overgeared people were zerging trivial raids for chance for legendaries so you couldn't find any gear up group only "zerg run" and "weekly raid tour" and so forth.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    There's only 1 solution to this: high ilvl people should stop queue for normal. Then his group will never fill and he will have to give up or get off his high horse.

    At least it's a bit less "bad" than in legion where overgeared people were zerging trivial raids for chance for legendaries so you couldn't find any gear up group only "zerg run" and "weekly raid tour" and so forth.
    Again, item level means next to nothing because of things like the cloak and neck.

    I'll use the alt mage I am playing right now for example. 454 item level. I have terrible trinkets, no good corruption, and okay azerite, but they are at 450. On tuesady I will be getting two 465 azerite pieces and a random 465 piece of gear. I will almost be 460 at that point and still need normal.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    or maybe its time to admit that game is overtuned for majority of audience and its time to make separate tournament realms with compeltly separate difficulty from rest of game.
    It's not that it's overtuned, it's that a lot of people make the game harder than it needs to be. Just got into a WCM +11. Tank kites the first obelisk out into the courtyard with the rift in the middle of everything and we chain die. So we pull the hallway normal. Get to Raals room and the healer Flame Shocks the boss during trash wiping us. Then the warriors Obsidian Destruction explodes pulling Raal again and wiping us. We one shot Raal and go out into the courtyard, the warrior dies to Coven Thornshaper and leaves. On top of it all, the 464 unholy DK was doing less than 10k dps, and doing one third the tanks damage.
    If what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Then I should be a god by now.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    It's not that it's overtuned, it's that a lot of people make the game harder than it needs to be.
    I think a lot of people would only be satisfied if this game had the difficulty of a cookie clicker: no matter what you press, you win. That's also why we're getting systems like titanforging and corruption to cater to the "everyone's a winner" attitude.

  19. #179
    As a feral druid i just gave up on M+ completely. Got tired of getting declined for hours or kicked when they realize im not an owl

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by Yhcti View Post
    Who genuinely spends 30mins running a dungeon to leave at the last boss...

    I've ran 3 keys tonight all +10 to +12's and at the end boss of each one the group has disbanded, why? what is the benefit? why not just finish the dungeon...?

    I'm playing a Windwalker Monk without corruption gear, I've been EXTREMELY unlucky with drops and haven't had any drop..

    I've ran 21 Freehold and Kings Rests in the last 2 weeks and haven't seen a single trinket drop which I need. My weekly chest for the passed 11 weeks has contained either Legs or Wrists, nothing else.

    Rant over. This is the reason I quit previously, without guildies, nothing gets done because everyone's so fucking toxic.
    What you will find, doing keys 10-15 is the worst bracket you can run. You have wannabe elitist jerks there, who are actually bad at the game but only think that others drag them down and they are superior or something. 16+ you will get better teammates, less toxic people, better quality runs. That being said, leaving a key is not uncommon in higher key levels, but mostly in sensible manner, if you wipe twice before you get to the first boss, that's a done key. I run quite a few keys and I have yet to encounter a player who leaves a key before the last boss (this patch).
    Also I never join others pugs. Always assemble your own party with decent raider.io score players/alts. You can also clarify in the note, that you want to finish the key, but then in general you will get worse players, tho they will most likely stay if you wipe few times

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