Toxic M+ Leavers

[Rensons]

Posts like these shows why this wow community is toxic and ignored by people in other games.

People are justifying quitters actions, instead of pointing out how absurd this kind of behavior is.

I invited a 2.5k iO Priest DPS who screwed up mechanics and ended up leaving after being made fun of by our healer.
So, even though the guys attended all metrics available, he managed to screw my game and im supposed to accept that because git gud ? How ?

The very reason these kind of things happen is because the gitgud community feed these monsters and then are bitten back and dont understand why endgame is so poor.

This is why i hate pugs.

[Vellithe]

Posts like these shows why this wow community is toxic and ignored by people in other games.

People are justifying quitters actions, instead of pointing out how absurd this kind of behavior is.

I invited a 2.5k iO Priest DPS who screwed up mechanics and ended up leaving after being made fun of by our healer.
So, even though the guys attended all metrics available, he managed to screw my game and im supposed to accept that because git gud ? How ?

The very reason these kind of things happen is because the gitgud community feed these monsters and then are bitten back and dont understand why endgame is so poor.

This is why i hate pugs.

You complain about leavers, but then you create the exact environment which causes leavers? Honestly, if someone is failing mechanics and is a random, the last thing you want to do is make fun of them. They're not your friend, they have no idea that you aren't trying to offend them. This kind of joking around only works when everyone is in on the joke. I actually hate pugs due to how often I had to defuse situations like this, it's like people are all children.

Sometimes groups are hopeless, though. Throughout BfA, I think I dropped 2 or 3 keys tops, a very low number for 2 years, but still higher than 0. All of them were when people just weren't improving try after try and there was no reason to stick around. Like 5 tries in and it's only getting worse.

There is some bad behavior surrounding io and the current design of all loot being shit for iLvl (the only reason people join groups is to push their io because there is no other reward, therefore if it's not going to time they might as well leave), but it's terrible to be stuck to a bad group for no reason.

Even though I don't quit groups unless I see a 0% chance of moving forward, even ignoring timer, there are many times that a group is so bad it makes me feel like quitting life as a whole. Now I just group up with guildies and never play with PUGs. imo that's what everyone should do, because the game becomes considerably better when you remove PUGs from it.

[ID811717]

Posts like these shows why this wow community is toxic and ignored by people in other games.

People are justifying quitters actions, instead of pointing out how absurd this kind of behavior is.

I invited a 2.5k iO Priest DPS who screwed up mechanics and ended up leaving after being made fun of by our healer.
So, even though the guys attended all metrics available, he managed to screw my game and im supposed to accept that because git gud ? How ?

The very reason these kind of things happen is because the gitgud community feed these monsters and then are bitten back and dont understand why endgame is so poor.

This is why i hate pugs.

It's not clear which of the two players you call a monster - the healer, or the spriest?

[Bloodyleech]

Actually it was. I replied to a suggestion where keys don't downgrade and you can manually downgrade if you choose to do so. My idea was simply a way to give people a reason to downgrade.

Ah, then I read to quickly over this, sorry!

[hootian]

It's not clear which of the two players you call a monster - the healer, or the spriest?

Technically both. The one crap talking another player is a jerk. The one who comes in with a high IO and doesn't even know the mechanics is also a jerk. People shouldn't sign up for 15s and higher that don't even have a basic understanding of the mechanics. Learn the dungeon and what your class can do to counter mechanics, then queue for higher keys. But, if you are being toxic to someone else that then leaves the key and you ruin someone's key, you're also a jerk. Plenty of jerk-age going around these days.

I've also seen people drop a key that was actually still possible to time after a wipe. Just because of a wipe. I remember one such situation in a 17 FH where we wiped on Trothak due to someone not kiting sharks and still had almost 12 minutes left to finish the fight and get to Harlan. Person says something like "y'all suck" or "learn to play", bails, ruins key. That's a special level of jerk.

[holywhiskers]

I love this thread. It has most of the "power users" of this forum in here displaying that they are indeed maybe not even AOTC players that struggle to do sub 15 keys. Everything makes so much more sense on these forums. Thanks OP.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Put a debuff on leavers stop them spreading their toxic behaviour. Give them a 24hr debuff that shows they abandoned a key previously but not stop them joining more runs.

At least the key holder when forming a group can be somewhat advised of the pugs potential behaviour.

If the group wanted to reset and downgrade their key, have it so the key holder can abandon the attempt and you can start again. Would stop pugs joining and bailing when the show got tough and allow a premade group trying to clear a particular dungeon the ability to reset and not get penalised.

so you want to mark every high end M+ player with a D buff? cuz you know its normal to leave a key after a bad pul/wipe on a 27-30 key unless you do 2hr no leaver for a Masochistic reason

[arkanon]

Posts like these shows why this wow community is toxic and ignored by people in other games.

People are justifying quitters actions, instead of pointing out how absurd this kind of behavior is.

I invited a 2.5k iO Priest DPS who screwed up mechanics and ended up leaving after being made fun of by our healer.
So, even though the guys attended all metrics available, he managed to screw my game and im supposed to accept that because git gud ? How ?

The very reason these kind of things happen is because the gitgud community feed these monsters and then are bitten back and dont understand why endgame is so poor.

This is why i hate pugs.

The irony here is amazing.

"Everyone is so toxic, so anyway, this priest wasnt playing how we wanted him to, so we mocked him and he left"

It amazes me that you dont sense the irony, surely you are at least aware of it to some degree?

[Kaver]

It's funny. I had a guy flame me for him dying to avoidable damage. He ran into a shark in freehold and called me a retard and shit healer because it killed him. I left the group and then he proceeded to tell me to kill myself for leaving.

This is the best reason to join a guild so you actually have some degree of control in terms of who you play with. If you always pug then shit like this will happen. Sadly.

[exochaft]

The irony here is amazing.

"Everyone is so toxic, so anyway, this priest wasnt playing how we wanted him to, so we mocked him and he left"

It amazes me that you dont sense the irony, surely you are at least aware of it to some degree?

This is why I think most of the perceived issues that this thread has haphazardly tried to address has absolutely nothing to do with WoW, but people and society in general. The Golden Rule used to be common-place and well know, but I guarantee there will be people who will have to look it up because they've never heard or it and/or don't know what it is.

I personally still abide by said rule as best I can, as no one is perfect. This applies in-game, as well, as I understand that everyone is a person on the other side of the avatar (bots aside ). Most toxic scenarios are by definition toxic because one or more people in a scenario (such as M+) completely forget that they're dealing with people, and they couldn't be bothered with treating them as such. This behavior seen in-game is just the logical result of how people are leading and living their lives on the outside, as it will easily trickle in to the game. The anonymity of an avatar releases the inhibitions that are present when you face someone directly in person, and what comes out is what is already present but just held back. Anonymity tends to remove the shroud of who a person actually is, and rarely brings out behaviors and mannerisms that weren't present already in the person.

[arkanon]

This is why I think most of the perceived issues that this thread has haphazardly tried to address has absolutely nothing to do with WoW, but people and society in general. The Golden Rule used to be common-place and well know, but I guarantee there will be people who will have to look it up because they've never heard or it and/or don't know what it is.

I personally still abide by said rule as best I can, as no one is perfect. This applies in-game, as well, as I understand that everyone is a person on the other side of the avatar (bots aside ). Most toxic scenarios are by definition toxic because one or more people in a scenario (such as M+) completely forget that they're dealing with people, and they couldn't be bothered with treating them as such. This behavior seen in-game is just the logical result of how people are leading and living their lives on the outside, as it will easily trickle in to the game. The anonymity of an avatar releases the inhibitions that are present when you face someone directly in person, and what comes out is what is already present but just held back. Anonymity tends to remove the shroud of who a person actually is, and rarely brings out behaviors and mannerisms that weren't present already in the person.

Word salad champion - 2020. No doubt you are trying to suggest 'treat others as you wish to be treated yourself' or something similar.

People don't "forget" they are playing with another person, that's a silly suggestion. They just don't care - and that has NOT changed since day one.

[ydraw]

so you want to mark every high end M+ player with a D buff? cuz you know its normal to leave a key after a bad pul/wipe on a 27-30 key unless you do 2hr no leaver for a Masochistic reason

No, just mark the players who leave against the wishes of the rest of the group.

If the group is disbanded by the group leader, nobody gets a deserter buff.

Plus if it's totally normal and fine as you say, then why would anyone care about having the deserter buff on them anyway?

- - - Updated - - -

It's funny. I had a guy flame me for him dying to avoidable damage. He ran into a shark in freehold and called me a retard and shit healer because it killed him. I left the group and then he proceeded to tell me to kill myself for leaving.

You're just wrong to leave the group though.

Without a doubt the guy flaming you is not the key holder. So you ruined the key holder's key, effectively punishing them for the actions of a stranger. You could have just been a big boy and put the toxic person on ignore, and finished the key. You wasted 3 other people's time by leaving because one other pug member typed something you could have easily ignored.

[Skillslam]

Another day, another Boralus run over in the first 30 seconds after someone dies 5 times trying to cross the water and Alt F4s in shame

[ydraw]

Another day, another Boralus run over in the first 30 seconds after someone dies 5 times trying to cross the water and Alt F4s in shame

It always boggles the mind why people even bother trying to run across the water. There's 1 elite mob in the way, it's way easier to just kill it, at least in a pug.

[Sunnydee]

If the group is disbanded by the group leader, nobody gets a deserter buff.

And if you have a cunt leader who refuses to disband the group, wasting 4 other peoples time?

You wasted 3 other people's time

You're sorta talking against yourself in same post.

[ydraw]

And if you have a cunt leader who refuses to disband the group, wasting 4 other peoples time?

So you get a deserter debuff, but if everyone at high levels knows that leaving keys is fine, so why would you care about that?

That's what always gets me about this argument, people will argue blue in the face that leaving keys is totally justifiable under any circumstance, but they argue against a debuff that does nothing except show people that you left a key.

[Sunnydee]

So you get a deserter debuff, but if everyone at high levels knows that leaving keys is fine, so why would you care about that?

Ive never stated anything like that. check who quotes you before saying such things.

- - - Updated - - -

That's what always gets me about this argument, people will argue blue in the face that leaving keys is totally justifiable under any circumstance, but they argue against a debuff that does nothing except show people that you left a key.

Nooo?. But id argue that leaving a key is totally fine if you see no point in continue when you are fully aware you wont complete the key, or someone is harrasing another, talking crap and such. I wouldnt scoop to someones level of acting like trash just for the sake of not getting a debuff, and let's say that shitty person is the leader, not only do you have an argument with a stupid person who has control over you, you are STUCK with a person who has control over you unless you eat from his hand.

Im not saying current system isn't flawed, but your idea is flawed too. There is no perfect system when it comes to interacting with other people online. Once you realise this your life will be so much less stressful.

[Ygg]

My favorite was when a really overgeared and over rio'd player joined my weekly 10, which I was tanking. After the first boss he doesnt follow me, but instead goes his own (superior ofc) route, gets killed, yells NO! I AM NOT CARRYING THIS SHIT GROUP!!! and leaves. We finish the dungeon in time (!), 4 players only. So much for carrying I still remember the name of that shadowpriest...

I stopped doing m+ as soon as I got the keystone master mount.

[odamienskii]

when you look at someones rio and it has a page full of depletos you just know that player is trying to play keys he is not good enough for (wasting good players time)

Good players know this. so they leave to make sure they dont get the depleto they most likely did not deserve.

Of course you have the exceptions, the plebs that fail fail fail then leave/dc, but most of the time in my experience its the better players that leave for the above reason, they dont deserve the deplete on there record so they dont accept it.

[FiveDkp]

when you look at someones rio and it has a page full of depletos you just know that player is trying to play keys he is not good enough for (wasting good players time)

Good players know this. so they leave to make sure they dont get the depleto they most likely did not deserve.

Of course you have the exceptions, the plebs that fail fail fail then leave/dc, but most of the time in my experience its the better players that leave for the above reason, they dont deserve the deplete on there record so they dont accept it.

I think a lot of good players have a few depletes on their keys (you can check a lot of the top players who have a lot of depletes). Generally, it is the people who seemingly have no depletes are the ragers from my experience.

You can also tell the ones who have been boosted from seeing their runs where they suddenly have a 15 2 chest when constantly being only able to chest anything below a 10. If they are a part of a guild group, assume carry to gear alt (generally they are good). If not, assume pay to boost (assume opposite).

My story though was in relation to a Mythic Raid where a warrior called me an elitist for not inviting him to a Mythic Raid where I wanted to get past Doggo / Hivemind after looking at his logs. His top dps on all heroic fights were 1k and admitted paying for a boost. He then said oh I got 465 ilvl in 2 weeks and I'm like I want to know if you know how to do the fights and dps and not your ilvl.

The thing is that the other 8-9 people who I invited and went through their logs were like 50-60k dps. It is like if I was being elitist - some of those people wouldn't be coming in if i was being super elitist with DPS.

My lesson with raiderio - DIG DEEPER.