Calculating wasted time/pulls because of people with low survi

[Yunaqt]

Just wait for when they work on the Mythic Soccer ball fight and someone keeps fucking up on passing the ball lol!

Or il'gynoth when 1 deaths explodes the entire raid

[kaminaris]

So you can't look at logs, but you can build a program that you think accurately simulates everything that happens and records it?

Sure you could figure out how much the wipes are costing you.

"Hey, guild awesomesauce only had 3 wipes on their farm today, and their dps isn't better than ours."
"Oh geez, we had 10 wipes. Guess that cost us about 40 minutes."

Done.

For the love of the god. It is not meant to be accurate, it is meant to explain people why it takes longer, roughly.
Anyways I am not responding anymore until someone actually makes some valuable remark. It's pointless to trying to persuade any side.

Once I finish this it is going to be a part of my guild tools.

[kaminaris]

To me the disconnect is that you seem to think that this thing has some value. I don't agree, and nothing you've said convinces me that a simulator programmed based on your random feelings about what causes wipes will work any better than looking at the actual data that has everything you could possibly need.

I really do not care, truly. You can think it doesn't have value at all. It's your right. It is not going to persuade me otherwise as I see value in it.

[Clozer]

input: logs
foreach wipe in logs do:
deadplayers[] = firstdeadplayers in wipe until wipe was actually called(2-3 in my guild)
for deadplayer in deadplayers do
if deadplayer died from avoidable damage do
deadplayer.timer += wipe.time + average downtime between pulls

#professionalprogrammer KEKW

[Revamp Man]

Oh we already improved by ton. And make no mistake, my friends are the ones who are actually in top for both dps and survivability. We are trying to get other people to play better. And we do not expect top dps, we just want them to survive better.

An equation won’t fix it

Best you can do is ask the raid leader what’s going on

Again my solution still stands
Adjust your expectations or leave

[kaminaris]

An equation won’t fix it

Best you can do is ask the raid leader what’s going on

Again my solution still stands
Adjust your expectations or leave

Please stick to topic, if you do not like what I am trying to do, feel free to leave topic.
Do not expect me to take any advices here besides the ones that can help improve the algorithm.

[MrLachyG]

Guys, this calculations is exactly what I need to convince people to shape up. Long story short, I am in a guild lower than my expectations and skill simply because I have couple of friends here and I don't care as much anymore.

However farm is painful because we waste too much time on bosses we already killed mostly because of stupid deaths.

And there is a guild one step ahead of us while having all-gray logs, with WW monk and enh shammy BUT they do farm like clockwork robots and they just don't die.

Also curiosity.

this is going to lead nowhere good. even if you do manage to calculate how much time you're wasting and you post the results in your discord or whatever then you're going to come across as a massive elitist dick. honestly, this is a game. if you're not enjoying yourself by playing with that guild, then leave. or just chill out because at the end of the day, it is just a game and you still have such a long time left in this patch (about 8 months) so yeah you have plenty of time

[Revamp Man]

Please stick to topic, if you do not like what I am trying to do, feel free to leave topic.
Do not expect me to take any advices here besides the ones that can help improve the algorithm.

Okay so the all mighty algorithm you use needs to have an extra factor

Probably use FU to calculate the chances of the raid team not taking any of this kindly and instead choosing to bench you

It’s the raid leaders job to handle this not yours alone and honestly I think you know what is going to happen

See you on drama Time buddy

[kaminaris]

this is going to lead nowhere good. even if you do manage to calculate how much time you're wasting and you post the results in your discord or whatever then you're going to come across as a massive elitist dick. honestly, this is a game. if you're not enjoying yourself by playing with that guild, then leave. or just chill out because at the end of the day, it is just a game and you still have such a long time left in this patch (about 8 months) so yeah you have plenty of time

And you think what methods we have been using for those 4 last raid tiers? Simple statistics algorithms including survivability, attendance and others.
We jumped by 500 places since EP and by 1500 since BoD. My tools are being used on raid-daily basis (3x week) by our raid leader and officers.

Next step will be pulling individual failures from logs such as deaths by certain spells - standing in avoidable shit.

We are far from elitist but we are fully opposed to buddy-system meaning anyone who fails too much goes bench.
And you seems to be mistaken about one thing, like a lot of people here in this thread. Our people actually like our methods because we can show exactly why certain player is benched, nobody is complaining about it.

Like in other guilds I've been before people been benched for entire raid tier because they had a bad day, even despite being better on average than few other players.

[ping-pong]

If you are not reading discussion so why are you trying to troll? Or maybe you came here to flex with that 12/12M? Not that I am impressed anyways since I could always ask guys at pieces or method if I wanted some advice.

There is no point in reading a discussion about a bad idea. I'm not trolling, I'm giving you advice. Instead of going on defensive, read and learn, implement and enforce basics and you will see far faster progress than you would with trying to calculate and analyze how much time you lost due to survivability or whatnot. You don't need to ask pieces or method for advice, you can see what all of us do. Just do the same. If it were time efficient and meaningful we would all be calculating time lost. We even have people who's only job in the guild is to make shit (wa's, spreadsheets...) we need for progress. We don't waste their time making that shit, or our time talking about it. Not because it's revolutionary new idea we haven't thought of, but because it's irrelevant.

[Doffen]

And you think what methods we have been using for those 4 last raid tiers? Simple statistics algorithms including survivability, attendance and others.
We jumped by 500 places since EP and by 1500 since BoD. My tools are being used on raid-daily basis (3x week) by our raid leader and officers.

You know that is because less guilds do raids now compared to in boD/EP right? My guild went up 7500 places from BoD and 2000 places from EP without any extra tools whatsoever. I guess we just are being so much better now right.

[kaminaris]

There is no point in reading a discussion about a bad idea.

Then don't discuss it, nobody is forcing you to participate in conversation.

[ping-pong]

Then don't discuss it, nobody is forcing you to participate in conversation.

Suit yourself.

[pappaslop]

Seems like you're over-complicating something very basic.

Looking at survivability percentages in a vacuum doesn't do anyone any good.

Improving your raid team is as simple as looking at people WITH low survivability > finding out the reason > informing them (if it is their fault). If they do not improve, you replace them.

If you're looking for a magical number...

Why don't you simply count every failed (farm) boss attempt in terms of fight length?

Add up your failures and there is your answer (for farm).

1 + 1 = 2. That is your "wasted time".

[kaminaris]

Seems like you're over-complicating something very basic.

Looking at survivability percentages in a vacuum doesn't do anyone any good.

Improving your raid team is as simple as looking at people WITH low survivability > finding out the reason > informing them (if it is their fault). If they do not improve, you replace them.

If you're looking for a magical number...

Why don't you simply count every failed (farm) boss attempt in terms of fight length?

Add up your failures and there is your answer (for farm).

1 + 1 = 2. That is your "wasted time".

The problem is you cannot simply calculate that amount IF your raiders would shape up and stop dying, such data doesn't exist.
So your current team vs THE SAME team but with higher average survival rate.

[Alvito]

And you think what methods we have been using for those 4 last raid tiers? Simple statistics algorithms including survivability, attendance and others.
We jumped by 500 places since EP and by 1500 since BoD. My tools are being used on raid-daily basis (3x week) by our raid leader and officers.

Next step will be pulling individual failures from logs such as deaths by certain spells - standing in avoidable shit.

We are far from elitist but we are fully opposed to buddy-system meaning anyone who fails too much goes bench.
And you seems to be mistaken about one thing, like a lot of people here in this thread. Our people actually like our methods because we can show exactly why certain player is benched, nobody is complaining about it.

Like in other guilds I've been before people been benched for entire raid tier because they had a bad day, even despite being better on average than few other players.

Do you think you have also jumped those places because far less people have raided each tier respectively.

[Schattenlied]

Guys, this calculations is exactly what I need to convince people to shape up.

It's not going to convince anyone to shape up, it will just make them dislike you.

[GucciWarr]

There is no point in reading a discussion about a bad idea. I'm not trolling, I'm giving you advice. Instead of going on defensive, read and learn, implement and enforce basics and you will see far faster progress than you would with trying to calculate and analyze how much time you lost due to survivability or whatnot. You don't need to ask pieces or method for advice, you can see what all of us do. Just do the same. If it were time efficient and meaningful we would all be calculating time lost. We even have people who's only job in the guild is to make shit (wa's, spreadsheets...) we need for progress. We don't waste their time making that shit, or our time talking about it. Not because it's revolutionary new idea we haven't thought of, but because it's irrelevant.

Anyone else think this loser is like Dennis from it’s always sunny in Philidlaphea freaking out about his tools
Infracted

[kaminaris]

It's not going to convince anyone to shape up, it will just make them dislike you.

If people can't take critique then maybe they should step down. Not sure who you people raid with but when I raid with mature and logical people.
On the other hand if you dislike anyone who points your mistakes then well...

Needless to say I already said it absolutely doesn't matter what people think about this idea. It is still going to be done refined.
Maybe it was mistake thinking I find anyone with math skills here.

[Revamp Man]

If people can't take critique then maybe they should step down. Not sure who you people raid with but when I raid with mature and logical people.
On the other hand if you dislike anyone who points your mistakes then well...

Needless to say I already said it absolutely doesn't matter what people think about this idea. It is still going to be done refined.
Maybe it was mistake thinking I find anyone with math skills here.

Nah
You aren’t looking for math skills
You are looking for validation

“How can I be a dick but be justified because numbers”

You talk about comparing team A to team A(but with increased survivability) and claim that the result will help raiders

Just plug your logs into wipefest and show the players the suggestions.....wait you won’t because you want something that you can use to make it unnecessarily complicated

“It’s to show how much time we waste”

If you only raid one night a week and don’t need the gear then just extend otherwise use a night for farm and stop getting your panties in a twist over spending a little extra time on farm

You say that you have a big roster and bench people yet at the same time come in here whining that some players die a few more times

You are not the raid lead and I hope someone finds out who is and links them this thread because you need benched