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  1. #181
    Well titanforging helped casuals progress slowly over time to get past artificial ilevel barriers set by other players (it's what finally allowed me to raid again in Legion. No more of that BS "we're demanding you have the ilevel that drops from this raid to do this raid"), which was of course the exact same reason said other players hated it.

    IDK what they were thinking with corruption though, it seems to contain none of the benefits of titanforging but all of the downsides. I just shrug and don't worry about it that much since parts of it keep getting nerfed/buffed and it'll be out by Shadowlands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by ano2024 View Post
    There is content, you do that content, you get gear. The more difficult the content the better the gear with better stats. A good formula, it worked for ages.

    Now, I'm not one to stifle progress. You want to add new systems to freshen things up, fine. But it's already been many, many years of systems after systems that have been very poorly received. Criticized ceaselessly by both casuals and hardcore players.

    And yet they haven't learned at all. Instead they seem to be doubling down, creating even shittier systems. It's like when they say they'll get rid of a certain annoying part of the game, they somehow make it worse. Like with removing titanforging which was supposed to make the game less RNG, to adding corruption which is more RNG. Is this company just completely out of touch? So they hire a lawyer as a game director to use his lawyer-speak and constantly put out fires that he started with his own lies.
    imo you are 100% correct.

    but that said, i have the simple answer for you: because its cheap.

    it MAY looks complex to us, but in reality its just database entries and a few programmers. on the other side, content, real content, involves gfx team, designers, creators, quest team, must fit into different things, more stuff influences and is linked with more other stuff, more testing....

    complex gear systems, loot drops and some character ui is just... scalable. and therefore cheap. creating content, foremost contest with quality, is expensive.

    this is the simple truth. believe me, i am in such a business since 20 years.

    what blizz do is investing least possible to milk most out of it. systems like corruption are ideal for that. or what do you think is the reason the „real content“ part of 8.3, in what corruption gear system is „embedded“, is uldum, eternal blossom, stormwind and orgrimmar ? do you see what they all have in common ?

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Niwes View Post
    imo you are 100% correct.

    but that said, i have the simple answer for you: because its cheap.

    it MAY looks complex to us, but in reality its just database entries and a few programmers. on the other side, content, real content, involves gfx team, designers, creators, quest team, must fit into different things, more stuff influences and is linked with more other stuff, more testing....

    complex gear systems, loot drops and some character ui is just... scalable. and therefore cheap. creating content, foremost contest with quality, is expensive.

    this is the simple truth. believe me, i am in such a business since 20 years.

    what blizz do is investing least possible to milk most out of it. systems like corruption are ideal for that. or what do you think is the reason the „real content“ part of 8.3, in what corruption gear system is „embedded“, is uldum, eternal blossom, stormwind and orgrimmar ? do you see what they all have in common ?
    You are a wise fellow.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by ano2024 View Post
    You are a wise fellow.
    not really. its just experience of doing exactly stuff like this since 20 years. you dont need wisdom if you know „da biz“ thats all.

  5. #185
    because once you get the gear you're "done" with that tier. Having these random titanforging system makes you have to keep running them to get the actual top tier reward thus increasing the amount of time you have to stay subscribed and playing that content. Activision is all about the monthly subscriptions so they'll do whatever they can to milk as much subscription time out of as little actual content as possible.

    Back in Vanilla, once you got your gear from MC, BWL, AQ... you were done. You kept raiding because of your guild, but once you were done for that week, you can actually stop and play an alt or help others out. Now you're never truly done unless you got all titanforged gear or maxed out all AP points.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by op3l View Post
    because once you get the gear you're "done" with that tier. Having these random titanforging system makes you have to keep running them to get the actual top tier reward thus increasing the amount of time you have to stay subscribed and playing that content. Activision is all about the monthly subscriptions so they'll do whatever they can to milk as much subscription time out of as little actual content as possible.

    Back in Vanilla, once you got your gear from MC, BWL, AQ... you were done. You kept raiding because of your guild, but once you were done for that week, you can actually stop and play an alt or help others out. Now you're never truly done unless you got all titanforged gear or maxed out all AP points.
    How is that a bad thing tell me please? I've felt more satisfaction from getting Rank 14 in a 16 year old game than getting 70 neck (quit before 8.3), you never get a sense of accomplishment in current WoW, theres always a grind a useless grind for +2 stats and being blessed by RNG. Even if you want to play an alt you have to grind your ass off for more non satisfactory progress.

    Don't even get me started on the RNG in every single aspect of the game, being "done" as you put it is a good thing believe it or not. Oh and btw, I was one of the guys that actively hated on Classic until I gave it a go, until I saw a BiS list until I got my gear cause I saw a end goal that I can work for. Whats my end goal in retail? Sure you can get max Neck level, cloak level etc, but in regards to gear? Azerite RNG (or farm forever), other pieces of gear RNG on wether you get the Corruption you wanted, then you want a socket all the good stats, whats the point?

    I'm definitely not even gonna login retail or purchase Shadowlands if this trend continues, tone down RNG, give me the player some end goal to reach. I want to raidlog, or just casually do shit content with friends, now I can't, I'm forced on a tread mill that I can't escape or I'll fall behind
    Raid Mains: Warlock / Warrior
    M+ Main/s: DH / Rogue
    Active alts: Druid /Monk / Mage

  7. #187
    A system like TF or Corrupted gear has to exist as long as M+ is around. Until M+ is abolished (which it definitely won't be) we have to have a system like this in place.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    It is for a MMORPG, people who "Complete the game" (Inb4 "So you've done mythic N'Zoth already?") tend to unsub, which is bad for business with a subscription-based game, that's why we now have endless grinds, RNG on RNG (With a side-dish of RNG), and other forms of dragging things out.
    The main issue though is that instead of them unsubbing and coming back in the future, they get so fed up with these BS systems that they unsub and never play again because of the bad taste it left in their mouths.

    The Essence system had potential to not suck but then they made it so grindy for alts. A simple fix? Rank 4 unlocks Rank 1 of that essence on your alts, rather than just looks pretty. But if you quit because you were expected to grind through to get Rank 3 for a bunch of essences multiple times because you had multiple spots to fill in a raid group, it could absolutely lead to burn out and people being fed up with the BS systems, especially after the grindy nightmare of Azerite before the Essences. And then they release something like Corruption which is so very very worse? Those people would look at the result of Corruption and never play again.

    Better to let folks take a break and want to return in the future than make a ton of BS crap systems that give them "endless" things they need to keep grinding and make them quit to never come back.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Thagrynor View Post
    The main issue though is that instead of them unsubbing and coming back in the future, they get so fed up with these BS systems that they unsub and never play again because of the bad taste it left in their mouths.

    The Essence system had potential to not suck but then they made it so grindy for alts. A simple fix? Rank 4 unlocks Rank 1 of that essence on your alts, rather than just looks pretty. But if you quit because you were expected to grind through to get Rank 3 for a bunch of essences multiple times because you had multiple spots to fill in a raid group, it could absolutely lead to burn out and people being fed up with the BS systems, especially after the grindy nightmare of Azerite before the Essences. And then they release something like Corruption which is so very very worse? Those people would look at the result of Corruption and never play again.

    Better to let folks take a break and want to return in the future than make a ton of BS crap systems that give them "endless" things they need to keep grinding and make them quit to never come back.
    Nice of you to speak on behalf of every player in existence.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    You say it like people didn't boost for money or new recruits.

    Its a known thing people dont get good when faced with ab obstacle, they quit.

    - - - Updated - - -



    So "fuck those people for liking what I dont like"?
    I think "those that like" would probably be ok with anything, and given that more people playing the game means more enjoyment/activity for everyone, maybe they should look at the bigger picture?

    Just a thought.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    I think "those that like" would probably be ok with anything, and given that more people playing the game means more enjoyment/activity for everyone, maybe they should look at the bigger picture?

    Just a thought.
    Pretty sure the big picture is the only picture they see, which is why they ignore the crying minority on forums

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Well titanforging helped casuals progress slowly over time to get past artificial ilevel barriers set by other players (it's what finally allowed me to raid again in Legion. No more of that BS "we're demanding you have the ilevel that drops from this raid to do this raid"), which was of course the exact same reason said other players hated it.

    IDK what they were thinking with corruption though, it seems to contain none of the benefits of titanforging but all of the downsides. I just shrug and don't worry about it that much since parts of it keep getting nerfed/buffed and it'll be out by Shadowlands.
    Titanforging helped hardcores progress not casuals. If your sinking enough time into the week to constantly farm titanforging your likely playing a lot more then the guy who just raids six hours a week and maybe farms for two more.

    Remember its hours played not skill that makes one hardcore.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    "Worked for ages". Of course you don't remember growing "nothing to do" and "AFKing in capital" problem that reach it's peak during WoD. Now you don't even have to remember this, just watch what 60s usually do in Classic.
    As if we don't AFK on capital or anything still

    - - - Updated - - -

    The problem ain't gear being grindy, the problem is the rng having rng inside the rng, of the other rng, that makes rng be the whole thing that matters.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also titanforging is gone, but you still have a chance to have a corruption, a CHANCE, and it sims better a 440 with corruption than a 460 without it. Just for that, that is titanforging right there. You have bis gear, with a chance of being corrupted, if it does with a OP corruption you won't even change it soon. Cause you want the damage of that.
    So all in all i feel like titanforging ain't gone yet and corruption is another and worsr titanforging.
    And even worse is that you never know how much corruption it can bring on a tier 3. If you're lucky, even on that you have the tier 3 without much corruption, giving you oportunity to use even more corruption items that will make you "stronk" as hell.
    The more you have rank on cloak even, the more corruption you can get without affecting you and having all those "titanforges" mascaraed as corruption.

  14. #194
    I guess homeworks give blizzard more $$.

    Or maybe it has something to do with them reporting MAUs instead of sub numbers now.
    Last edited by PrairieChicken; 2020-03-02 at 09:51 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedGamer030 View Post
    I do not need to be constructive in this thread, nor provide an argument. There is nothing here to actually debate. Your reasoning is flawed and thusly you have no argument.
    ↑ Epitome of Internet Logic

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    Pretty sure the big picture is the only picture they see, which is why they ignore the crying minority on forums
    Burying heads in the sand. I see.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Burying heads in the sand. I see.
    Not exactly.

    Listening to a irrelevantly small portion of the community is nowhere close to the right way to go.

  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by ano2024 View Post
    There is content, you do that content, you get gear. The more difficult the content the better the gear with better stats. A good formula, it worked for ages.

    Now, I'm not one to stifle progress. You want to add new systems to freshen things up, fine. But it's already been many, many years of systems after systems that have been very poorly received. Criticized ceaselessly by both casuals and hardcore players.

    And yet they haven't learned at all. Instead they seem to be doubling down, creating even shittier systems. It's like when they say they'll get rid of a certain annoying part of the game, they somehow make it worse. Like with removing titanforging which was supposed to make the game less RNG, to adding corruption which is more RNG. Is this company just completely out of touch? So they hire a lawyer as a game director to use his lawyer-speak and constantly put out fires that he started with his own lies.
    Blizzard NEVER saw the removal of RNG as something to counter RNG. They love RNG, they want RNG, they never thought for a single second to change the level of RNG in the game. They removed titanforging on the premice of "some dudes get higher ilvl they don't deserve", not the ilvl issue is gone but a million more problems arise.

    Also no, the bland stats are boring as all fucks dude, it was shit in 2004, shit before in other games, and still shit today. Things were slightly interesting with multistrike in the mix, some masteries are actually fun (most are boring), in general it's pretty brain dead in terms of RPG elements in this game. While there is a lot of things going very bad with corruption, the core idea of extra effects we have to manage through a risk/reward kinda thing is pretty interesting. It's just a shame it's not balanced, not tested, 3 more layers of RNG we never needed/wanted, and designed by people who don't play the game so they don't know what's simply not fun.
    Cure cancer, delete factions.

  18. #198
    It's a treadmill.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Karl View Post
    Titanforging helped hardcores progress not casuals.
    Define "helped".

    I can't speak for every hardcore raider, but most of them (including myself) did not enjoy Titanforging.
    One might think that those that actually manage to reach the "cap" or BiS are the ones that enjoy having a near infinite cap, yet that has exactly robbed of the feeling of acquiring a BiS piece.

    Whenever you received a non war/titanforged item, you just go "well, it could've been better" and if you happen to receive one, you are excited for about 5 seconds, then you realize that you just earned the extra power by pure chance, not through additional work but simply through luck.

    It felt good to have a piece and to know "yep, that's the best one" and be done with it that slot without any additional layers of RNG.

    It's like climbing a mountain, the climb needs to be exciting but then it's also good to stand at the top, yet Blizzard decided to that only the climb is fun and must go on forever until the next patch with your entire progress losing a lot of meaning due to catchup mechanics.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    Not exactly.

    Listening to a irrelevantly small portion of the community is nowhere close to the right way to go.
    There is nothing small about it. The game is at it's least populated ever. You just have to have been looking at population and raid progression trackers, but in game activities are also very clear. You hide your head in the sand to ignore that fact. It's your choice.
    From my pov, those people are the irrelevant portion of the community. The yes man that are ok with everything. That helps no one, not even themselves as the game drops in population and support.

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