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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    There is nothing small about it. The game is at it's least populated ever. You just have to have been looking at population and raid progression trackers, but in game activities are also very clear. You hide your head in the sand to ignore that fact. It's your choice.
    From my pov, those people are the irrelevant portion of the community. The yes man that are ok with everything. That helps no one, not even themselves as the game drops in population and support.
    It's fine to hate blizzard but don't unleash it on me, I'm just stating the fact listening to a fraction of a community would do more bad than good.

    Like, which group would they listen to begin with?

    Flying or no flying?
    RNG loot or no RNG loot?

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Define "helped".

    I can't speak for every hardcore raider, but most of them (including myself) did not enjoy Titanforging.
    One might think that those that actually manage to reach the "cap" or BiS are the ones that enjoy having a near infinite cap, yet that has exactly robbed of the feeling of acquiring a BiS piece.

    Whenever you received a non war/titanforged item, you just go "well, it could've been better" and if you happen to receive one, you are excited for about 5 seconds, then you realize that you just earned the extra power by pure chance, not through additional work but simply through luck.

    It felt good to have a piece and to know "yep, that's the best one" and be done with it that slot without any additional layers of RNG.

    It's like climbing a mountain, the climb needs to be exciting but then it's also good to stand at the top, yet Blizzard decided to that only the climb is fun and must go on forever until the next patch with your entire progress losing a lot of meaning due to catchup mechanics.
    By hardcore I mean the actual hardcores not wow's version of the word. Raiding is usually a fairly casual activity there is only so many hours you can do it.

    It helped those who play excessively but dont tend to do harder content.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    It's fine to hate blizzard but don't unleash it on me, I'm just stating the fact listening to a fraction of a community would do more bad than good.

    Like, which group would they listen to begin with?

    Flying or no flying?
    RNG loot or no RNG loot?
    You are stating no facts. The amount of people that unsubbed this xpac is far vaster than the ones still around. You are no majority here.

    How about they try to make the game fun? No flying isn't fun. It's a chore. RNG isn't fun, it's a chore. How about making the game fun and not a pointless rental power chore with no lasting progression? I think it's easy to start there. Doesn't require a genius. It's also pretty easy to see where your competitors are doing well and take inspiration from that. This is not difficult at any rate.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2020-03-02 at 05:40 PM.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    You are stating no facts. The amount of people that unsubbed this xpac is far vaster than the ones still around. You are no majority here.

    How about they try to make the game fun? No flying isn't fun. It's a chore. RNG isn't fun, it's a chore. How about making the game fun and not a pointless chore? I think it's easy to start there. Doesn't require a genius. It's also pretty easy to see where your competitors are doing well and take inspiration from that. This is not difficult at any rate.
    It is a well known fact that 1. people happy with the game don't post about it, and 2. the vast majority of players don't use forums.

    But what is fun?

    For some people flying is fun, for some no flying is fun.
    Some like RNG loot, some hate RNG loot.
    It's impossible to make a succesful game of this size by listening to a specific group.

    Also loving the asspulled number of unsubbed players.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    It is a well known fact that 1. people happy with the game don't post about it, and 2. the vast majority of players don't use forums.

    But what is fun?

    For some people flying is fun, for some no flying is fun.
    Some like RNG loot, some hate RNG loot.
    It's impossible to make a succesful game of this size by listening to a specific group.

    Also loving the asspulled number of unsubbed players.
    And who is making the case that only the people posting on forums matter? Indeed, many leave and don't even bother.

    You are gonna have to explain to me how no flying is fun. Do you find it fun to take ages to get to places and get dazed and dismounted on the way? Do you hate free time? Do you love taking 3 times as longer to do the same task? Would you have fun if your trip home took 3 times as long? Do you love going around cliffs to get to that world quest? Why is this even in question? Oh ofc, because you have your head in the sand.
    No one likes RNG loot. Only gamblers.

    I love the ass pulled assertions that you are a majority as well.

    This is pointless and as i said, you are just someone who buries their head in the sand, so why don't you just carry on doing that? I don't think anything will open your eyes and as i like fun things, i will stop wasting mine doing something as boring as continuing this exchange.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2020-03-02 at 06:11 PM.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    And who is making the case that only the people posting on forums matter? Indeed, many leave and don't even bother.

    You are gonna have to explain to me how no flying is fun. Do you find it fun to take ages to get to places and get dazed and dismounted on the way? Do you hate free time? Do you love taking 3 times as longer to do the same task? Would you have fun if your trip home took 3 times as long? Do you love going around cliffs to get to that world quest? Why is this even in question? Oh ofc, because you have your head in the sand.
    No one likes RNG loot. Only gamblers.

    I love the ass pulled assertions that you are a majority as well.

    This is pointless and as i said, you are just someone who buries their head in the sand, so why don't you just carry on doing that? I don't think anything will open your eyes and as i like fun things, i will stop wasting mine doing something as wasteful as continuing this exchange.
    I haven't even mentioned being a part of any of these groups of people, unsure how you managed to make me "part of the majority" or something.
    My personal opinion on these don't matter.

    Perhaps you should calm down, wipe the tears and try replying later?

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    And who is making the case that only the people posting on forums matter? Indeed, many leave and don't even bother.

    You are gonna have to explain to me how no flying is fun. Do you find it fun to take ages to get to places and get dazed and dismounted on the way? Do you hate free time? Do you love taking 3 times as longer to do the same task? Would you have fun if your trip home took 3 times as long? Do you love going around cliffs to get to that world quest? Why is this even in question? Oh ofc, because you have your head in the sand.
    No one likes RNG loot. Only gamblers.

    I love the ass pulled assertions that you are a majority as well.

    This is pointless and as i said, you are just someone who buries their head in the sand, so why don't you just carry on doing that? I don't think anything will open your eyes and as i like fun things, i will stop wasting mine doing something as boring as continuing this exchange.
    ignoring all of the terrain makes boring chores even more boring.
    flying turns the game into a featureless world. Just fly straight up long enough, point your camera towards the wq arrow and tab out when you reach

    flying is shit/will always be shit

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by ano2024 View Post
    There is content, you do that content, you get gear. The more difficult the content the better the gear with better stats. A good formula, it worked for ages.

    Now, I'm not one to stifle progress. You want to add new systems to freshen things up, fine. But it's already been many, many years of systems after systems that have been very poorly received. Criticized ceaselessly by both casuals and hardcore players.

    And yet they haven't learned at all. Instead they seem to be doubling down, creating even shittier systems. It's like when they say they'll get rid of a certain annoying part of the game, they somehow make it worse. Like with removing titanforging which was supposed to make the game less RNG, to adding corruption which is more RNG. Is this company just completely out of touch? So they hire a lawyer as a game director to use his lawyer-speak and constantly put out fires that he started with his own lies.
    Because they know the quality of the content they deliver has gone down drastically.

    They know no one would stick around for longer than a few weeks without all these "mandatory" grinds and systems on top of systems.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    ignoring all of the terrain makes boring chores even more boring.
    flying turns the game into a featureless world. Just fly straight up long enough, point your camera towards the wq arrow and tab out when you reach

    flying is shit/will always be shit
    That is completely illogical. So, adding dumb repeatable obstacles from bad design wich make it last way longer somehow make a boring activity less boring rather than more? Of course! I always love to do things i dislike and make them even more boring and time consuming cause that makes it better! Like, is there even anything to say here? This is cuckoos.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    That is completely illogical. So, adding dumb repeatable obstacles from bad design wich make it last way longer somehow make a boring activity less boring rather than more? Of course! I always love to do things i dislike and make them even more boring and time consuming cause that makes it better! Like, is there even anything to say here? This is cuckoos.
    it actually isn't.

    What's the point in having immersive outdoor environments... if you're going to fly over it.
    Might as well have all of the game be a grey flat room with no terrain.

    You have your opinion, I have mine.

  11. #211
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    Because youre going to play more if theres a slim chance you could get an upgrade at any time. I liked it. It rewards people who play more as it should be.

    But it's just lazy design because they cant come up with more compelling classes. Same ol homogenized turd on every class. You get a heal, a slow, a big damage a little fillter damage, couple flavor items. and there you go....polished turd class.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by NatePsy View Post
    The multitude of systems and layers of RNG are there to make you invest more time into obtaining said gear, which looks good numbers-wise to investors. It's the same reason they won't ever make Essences account-wide, because then you'd have less grind to do. They talk a big game about wanting to do away with needless grindfests but the reality is they want them in the game to make you spend more time on their game.
    Would you prefer the Diablo 1-2 system, where level 120 mobs can still drop level 1 loot so 99% of what you get is trash you don't even bother looting?
    "Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer." Powerogue 2019

  13. #213
    I would be happy with Gear being gear and giving us more talent choices. Let me find new spells to add , find new abilities. Let me Gear up my mounts, make mounts useful in combat. Dog fights, bombing and straffing cities while dodging AA.. things like that
    Last edited by Dystemper; 2020-03-02 at 11:21 PM.
    Non nobis Domine, non nobis, sed nomini tuo da gloriam

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by ano2024 View Post
    Genius. The company creating manipulative and addicting, unsatisfying games? - Merely doing what companies do. The addicted gamers? - Fuck em, their fault for being addicted.
    Yes most addictions ARE the fault of the addicted because they allowed themselves to be addicted. Personal fucking responsibility is a thing.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by kubasniak View Post
    I don't know mate. I get the gear and all these RNG gear procs are just a bonus to me. The moment I gather heroic gear even if it's normal and go into farm mode in raids then I will stick for 1-3 resets and just chill and stop raiding. Same with mythic dungeons. I don't chase them to get that extra RNG bonus of ilvl on gear. If I get it? Cool. If not? Cool too. It doesn't seem like a solution to "nothing to do" or "AFKing" because you can always do some PvP, achievements, old raid farming, pets, transmogs etc. or play and gear your alts and do those things or you can play other video games or you can turn off the computer and do something in real life for example and it seems like a lot of people need some of it.
    Problem is people can't live with "bonuses". Instead of seeing a gem slot or a high titanforge as a "bonus" they see it as something baseline they have to have or they're somehow "behind." This has been the problem ever since WoD added the whole trifecta thing. Not BiS = trash to too many people. And they get mad when BiS isn't attainable.
    "Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer." Powerogue 2019

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    That is completely illogical. So, adding dumb repeatable obstacles from bad design wich make it last way longer somehow make a boring activity less boring rather than more? Of course! I always love to do things i dislike and make them even more boring and time consuming cause that makes it better! Like, is there even anything to say here? This is cuckoos.
    So you think making flat square would be better desing? No obstacles, no caves, etc..? Do you realize that incovinience do not exist just to make make stuff take more time right? They exist becouse they create bealiaveable and immersive world. If you create cave what is coviniently put infront of you and you dont have to navigate at all it stopes being immersive becouse you start realize that its there becouse devs put it there no becouse that cave was created by nature process which is everthing but not covienient.

    And if you dont care about non of that than you dont like mmorpg games and you clearly play wrong game.

  17. #217
    I understand the "nothing to do" argument.

    But you only need ONE system for it, and you expand upon it. Why instead of expanding one system, you add new system on top of existing system? This is not a valid argument at all.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by PewPewArrowz View Post
    How is that a bad thing tell me please? I've felt more satisfaction from getting Rank 14 in a 16 year old game than getting 70 neck (quit before 8.3), you never get a sense of accomplishment in current WoW, theres always a grind a useless grind for +2 stats and being blessed by RNG. Even if you want to play an alt you have to grind your ass off for more non satisfactory progress.

    Don't even get me started on the RNG in every single aspect of the game, being "done" as you put it is a good thing believe it or not. Oh and btw, I was one of the guys that actively hated on Classic until I gave it a go, until I saw a BiS list until I got my gear cause I saw a end goal that I can work for. Whats my end goal in retail? Sure you can get max Neck level, cloak level etc, but in regards to gear? Azerite RNG (or farm forever), other pieces of gear RNG on wether you get the Corruption you wanted, then you want a socket all the good stats, whats the point?

    I'm definitely not even gonna login retail or purchase Shadowlands if this trend continues, tone down RNG, give me the player some end goal to reach. I want to raidlog, or just casually do shit content with friends, now I can't, I'm forced on a tread mill that I can't escape or I'll fall behind
    I think you read my post wrong. I hate the titan forge system. I want to be done with a tier when I get the gear, not have to keep doing the same instance hoping for a titanforge so I can ACTUALLY be done.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    "Worked for ages". Of course you don't remember growing "nothing to do" and "AFKing in capital" problem that reach it's peak during WoD. Now you don't even have to remember this, just watch what 60s usually do in Classic.
    The top players being "done" with gear for the patch is not a problem, and for everybody below that there was always plenty of room for gear progression by doing harder content.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Would you prefer the Diablo 1-2 system, where level 120 mobs can still drop level 1 loot so 99% of what you get is trash you don't even bother looting?
    That's basically the current system already. We get flooded with garbage loot in order to make their RNG fiesta gearing systems "work".
    Monkashuffle
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  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    The top players being "done" with gear for the patch is not a problem, and for everybody below that there was always plenty of room for gear progression by doing harder content.
    With that logic, majority of the players won't be "done" anyway, so system like forging is fine.


    PS. I hated titanforging.

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