Why can't gear just be gear? Why all these shitty systems?

[op3l]

How is that a bad thing tell me please? I've felt more satisfaction from getting Rank 14 in a 16 year old game than getting 70 neck (quit before 8.3), you never get a sense of accomplishment in current WoW, theres always a grind a useless grind for +2 stats and being blessed by RNG. Even if you want to play an alt you have to grind your ass off for more non satisfactory progress.

Don't even get me started on the RNG in every single aspect of the game, being "done" as you put it is a good thing believe it or not. Oh and btw, I was one of the guys that actively hated on Classic until I gave it a go, until I saw a BiS list until I got my gear cause I saw a end goal that I can work for. Whats my end goal in retail? Sure you can get max Neck level, cloak level etc, but in regards to gear? Azerite RNG (or farm forever), other pieces of gear RNG on wether you get the Corruption you wanted, then you want a socket all the good stats, whats the point?

I'm definitely not even gonna login retail or purchase Shadowlands if this trend continues, tone down RNG, give me the player some end goal to reach. I want to raidlog, or just casually do shit content with friends, now I can't, I'm forced on a tread mill that I can't escape or I'll fall behind

I think you read my post wrong. I hate the titan forge system. I want to be done with a tier when I get the gear, not have to keep doing the same instance hoping for a titanforge so I can ACTUALLY be done.

[Tradu]

"Worked for ages". Of course you don't remember growing "nothing to do" and "AFKing in capital" problem that reach it's peak during WoD. Now you don't even have to remember this, just watch what 60s usually do in Classic.

The top players being "done" with gear for the patch is not a problem, and for everybody below that there was always plenty of room for gear progression by doing harder content.

- - - Updated - - -

Would you prefer the Diablo 1-2 system, where level 120 mobs can still drop level 1 loot so 99% of what you get is trash you don't even bother looting?

That's basically the current system already. We get flooded with garbage loot in order to make their RNG fiesta gearing systems "work".

[Ghostile]

The top players being "done" with gear for the patch is not a problem, and for everybody below that there was always plenty of room for gear progression by doing harder content.

With that logic, majority of the players won't be "done" anyway, so system like forging is fine.


PS. I hated titanforging.

[Tradu]

With that logic, majority of the players won't be "done" anyway, so system like forging is fine.


PS. I hated titanforging.

Problem is nobody is ever done with titanforging, and the path to being done is luck rather than skill.

[Casperite]

Yes? I don't understand how this question comes up every single time a topic like this gets created. Of fucking course i'd rather have nothing to do and quit. I want to be able to ""complete"" the game, at least temporarily, to free up time for other things, other hobbies. No game should keep you on the hook the entire fucking time. Why would you not want that? Do you want to be addicted? To play the same game every single day?

Sounds like you have the addiction problem if you feel you can't stop when you want to.

[blankfaced]

There will always be gear RNG, get over it. I figured the crying about TF would result in something worse. TF was a great system, but people cried because they were never done gearing. Or people who didn't raid were getting good gear!! Now look at what you made everyone have to deal with instead.

Don't blame the developers. Blame yourselves for being so whiny all the time. TF worked, it gave everyone a constant chance to upgrade a piece of gear. And if you guys think gear RNG is going away, it isn't. The whole point of gear, is RNG.

[Zka]

Yes, the idea of being able to somehow complete the game is atrocious.

Not sure why - people used to roll alts in BC/LK when there was no way to perma-grind something on your main. It was so much more fun.

[czarek]

I think RNG is pushing players to do smth instead of standing in city. If you know you can roll great affix may it push you to try as more chance to get loot as you can. Yeah thats shit but i bet thats the idea of RNG affixes. In some way its true but this made game better? Totally no. This made it more annoyin. Some can get mad because lootek thousand of items and get shit. Some can be excited because loot awesome item when just passing lvl cap :P Ive looted awesome BOE ring on normal nylotha witch is worth around 250.000 G. RNG is ok for the games like Diablo or POE where you are not time gated in RAID locks for a week. Ok i can spam myth+ but yeah i didnt have guarantee ill get any loot at the end xD

[Tradu]

There will always be gear RNG, get over it. I figured the crying about TF would result in something worse. TF was a great system, but people cried because they were never done gearing. Or people who didn't raid were getting good gear!! Now look at what you made everyone have to deal with instead.

Don't blame the developers. Blame yourselves for being so whiny all the time. TF worked, it gave everyone a constant chance to upgrade a piece of gear. And if you guys think gear RNG is going away, it isn't. The whole point of gear, is RNG.

There was enough RNG in Cata. That's when they nailed gearing and since then it's only gotten worse. Corrupted gear at least had the potential to be interesting, it failed when they added the damage procs(and leech/avoidance) to the pool and failed completely at tuning it(although that part should be expected at this point)
99.9% of people already had a constant opportunity to get better gear previous to forging. The difference was you had to earn it instead of just getting lucky.

[Kaver]

The game shouldn’t need endless gear to keep people playing it. Games like CS GO etc doesn’t have any character progression but people still play it over and over again.

[ek0zu]

^ This!

I am starting to think that the best solution should be an all out RNG-fest should happen in difficulties up until Heroic and then for Mythic onwards the gear shouldn't be a problem.

The same mindset should be in PvP.

[Kehego]

The game shouldn’t need endless gear to keep people playing it. Games like CS GO etc doesn’t have any character progression but people still play it over and over again.

csgo isn't an rpg

[Kaver]

csgo isn't an rpg

You’re right, it’s not. But it is just an example of a game that strives solely on fun gameplay. Even an RPG game like WoW could learn something from that. Blizzard seem to think they need to make all these gear systems based on rng and infinite progression to keep people playing the game, but they don’t have to. I play a lot of high M+ keys but it is not because of gear. It’s because I actually enjoy the content and like the competitiveness of pushing keys.

[Dalinos]

There are so many people saying "It's good to be done with a tier, it feels good", that people who don't know what it's like to be fully BiS geared think it's an easy task.

Newsflash, it's not.

There have been only 2? 3? times in my 15 year long WoW career that my char has been 100% BiS geared - as a feral Maintank with close to 100% raid attendance in TBC, and as a feral Maintank with close to 100% raid attendance in WOTLK.

My guild raided 3-5 days/week in TBC and 2-4 days/week in WOTLK. Serious dedication was required to get full T6, full T6.5 off-set pieces from SWP, and full 277 Heroic T10 from ICC. It was not an easy task, it took constant gameplay (refer to near-100% raid attendance) and it took being an active member of a respectable guild. I would argue it took MORE effort to get full best-in-slot in TBC and WOTLK, simply due to the fact that raids dropped MUCH less items. TBC and WOTLK were so close to their Vanilla starting roots that bosses in 25man raids dropped 2-3 items per kill. 1 tier token, 1 piece off the loot table, maybe a 2nd piece, maybe a recipe.

Regarding the myth that "When people are full BiS and done they log off till next tier" that's complete and utter horseshit. The people who a) care enough to get full BiS and b) are respected enough by their guilds to be GIVEN that full BiS gear-set when it drops are NOT the people who will log off and disappear till the new raid. No no no no no.

They are the people who will attain full BIS, will realise attaining full BIS on a character is a GUILD EFFORT, and they will continue going to raids so they can help their mates & guildies ALSO get full BiS. What guild would appreciate the Maintank that gets his full BiS and then fucks off, never to be seen again for the next 3 months, unavailable to tank raids for the guild who geared him up? Oh that's right, noone.

TL : DR, people were more engaged and more active when there were set BiS lists to get, because of the nature of the game, and what "getting full BiS" entailed. A massive amount of group effort.

[Tradu]

There are so many people saying "It's good to be done with a tier, it feels good", that people who don't know what it's like to be fully BiS geared think it's an easy task.

Newsflash, it's not.

There have been only 2? 3? times in my 15 year long WoW career that my char has been 100% BiS geared - as a feral Maintank with close to 100% raid attendance in TBC, and as a feral Maintank with close to 100% raid attendance in WOTLK.

My guild raided 3-5 days/week in TBC and 2-4 days/week in WOTLK. Serious dedication was required to get full T6, full T6.5 off-set pieces from SWP, and full 277 Heroic T10 from ICC. It was not an easy task, it took constant gameplay (refer to near-100% raid attendance) and it took being an active member of a respectable guild. I would argue it took MORE effort to get full best-in-slot in TBC and WOTLK, simply due to the fact that raids dropped MUCH less items. TBC and WOTLK were so close to their Vanilla starting roots that bosses in 25man raids dropped 2-3 items per kill. 1 tier token, 1 piece off the loot table, maybe a 2nd piece, maybe a recipe.

Regarding the myth that "When people are full BiS and done they log off till next tier" that's complete and utter horseshit. The people who a) care enough to get full BiS and b) are respected enough by their guilds to be GIVEN that full BiS gear-set when it drops are NOT the people who will log off and disappear till the new raid. No no no no no.

They are the people who will attain full BIS, will realise attaining full BIS on a character is a GUILD EFFORT, and they will continue going to raids so they can help their mates & guildies ALSO get full BiS. What guild would appreciate the Maintank that gets his full BiS and then fucks off, never to be seen again for the next 3 months, unavailable to tank raids for the guild who geared him up? Oh that's right, noone.

TLR, people were more engaged and more active when there were set BiS lists to get, because of the nature of the game, and what "getting full BiS" entailed. A massive amount of group effort.

BiS also meant the playing field for ranks was much more even later in the tier. Now that never happens, and this tier it's going to end up being full of degenerate corruption RNG and Spark of Inspiration funneling/simp shaman(probably mostly from Asia)

[Kaver]

I also don’t think we need 3 different systems that gives us “talents”. Instead of having Azerite gear and Essences they should just expand the standard talent system and make some more interesting choices. There is no need to attach talents to gear in multiple different system. Just give us ONE great system.

[Thelyron]

Sounds like you have the addiction problem if you feel you can't stop when you want to.

I did stop when i wanted to. Unsubbed during that 2 boss raid last year. But if you really feel like you're not being left behind every time you don't play, you're lying to yourself.

[Dalinos]

BiS also meant the playing field for ranks was much more even later in the tier. Now that never happens, and this tier it's going to end up being full of degenerate corruption RNG and Spark of Inspiration funneling/simp shaman(probably mostly from Asia)

Now that's an aspect I never personally really bothered with, but I get where you're coming from. When every single Rogue & Feral druid in the raid had 100% armour penetration in WOTLK, you could start comparing classes. When casters got all their gear up to par, they would even have intra-guild competitions where the top 5 DPSers would pool 100g per bossfight, and whoever got 1st would get the 500g prize. For me, I vaguely remember being told once "Omg Dali, you got an amazing parse on Sindragosa, you were #81st bear tank in the world!" to which my response was "Oh really? Nice, I guess".

So..not really my cup of tea, but I can still see how it's exciting for people and how you absolutely NEED to have static items that do not change their stats in order for that race/comparison/leaderboard to make any sense whatsoever.

[TOM_RUS]

Because Blizzard devs and management are fucking retards.

[Swnem]

So you think making flat square would be better desing? No obstacles, no caves, etc..? Do you realize that incovinience do not exist just to make make stuff take more time right? They exist becouse they create bealiaveable and immersive world. If you create cave what is coviniently put infront of you and you dont have to navigate at all it stopes being immersive becouse you start realize that its there becouse devs put it there no becouse that cave was created by nature process which is everthing but not covienient.

And if you dont care about non of that than you dont like mmorpg games and you clearly play wrong game.

Oh i'm clearly not playing it anymore. It was boring to no end and i found games that are more fun to play. I would just like dor it to actually improve.

Imersion is such an abstract concept that varies from person to person. As part of imersion my character should have to go to the shitter every 5 hours or this game sucks! Imersion does not equal fun, it equals chore. I live in a real world, i play games to have fun, not to replicate a real world. I explored the world and am imersed in it in the leveling experience alongside the narrative. There is nothing imersive about repeating the same WQ's over and over like a looney toon house and then say to riding there again and again is "imersive".
Sorry, bunch of snowflakes. I don't recognise your opinion, but you can have it of course.