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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by ano2024 View Post
    There is content, you do that content, you get gear. The more difficult the content the better the gear with better stats. A good formula, it worked for ages.

    Now, I'm not one to stifle progress. You want to add new systems to freshen things up, fine. But it's already been many, many years of systems after systems that have been very poorly received. Criticized ceaselessly by both casuals and hardcore players.

    And yet they haven't learned at all. Instead they seem to be doubling down, creating even shittier systems. It's like when they say they'll get rid of a certain annoying part of the game, they somehow make it worse. Like with removing titanforging which was supposed to make the game less RNG, to adding corruption which is more RNG. Is this company just completely out of touch? So they hire a lawyer as a game director to use his lawyer-speak and constantly put out fires that he started with his own lies.
    Because its boring? ! WE did gear just gear for many expansions, it's boring as hell after a while, I much prefer these other systems, wow is much more than just logging to go to your raid and pick up ypur tier set, thnx bye.

    While it is there to keep you subscribed, it als o keeps playing regualrly rewarding and more interesting. It's a pain when you don't have time to do as much as you want though and can't be bothered to have a new grind every patch because you already did that alot. But how else will they keep you subscribed and or interested?

    You may be ocontent with just normal vanilla gear, but many people get bored fast, and it becomes stale fast. Besides if itwasn't for al lthis, the nostalgia and enjoyment of classic wouldn't be so pronounced. You have to have moved away from something for a long time for people to have fond memories and want to have a go at the old system.

    Calssic provides that now, but it would be disastrous for live to go back to that, and boring as hell. Live's average age is also younger than classics. And there is a reason new players are a lot more on live than classic. you can't just cater to the past, gotta look to the future.

  2. #222
    anyone get denied a guild application because they didn't have titanforging?

    anyone get kicked out of a run because it wasn't socketed?

  3. #223
    I think it comes down to fear.

    Fear that their playerbase has changed so drastically over the years from them catering to the instanst reward crowd that they no longer have faith that there is a large enough player pool that progresses for their old systems to work.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Karl View Post
    I think it comes down to fear.

    Fear that their playerbase has changed so drastically over the years from them catering to the instanst reward crowd that they no longer have faith that there is a large enough player pool that progresses for their old systems to work.
    with the old gear where you'd get Muh BiS and never play until the next patch?
    I'm gucci, my account's been active since the scarab wall opened and this is the least boring loot has ever been.

    However, if you're too pepega to set personal goals, you'll have issues with the system.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    The top players being "done" with gear for the patch is not a problem, and for everybody below that there was always plenty of room for gear progression by doing harder content.

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    That's basically the current system already. We get flooded with garbage loot in order to make their RNG fiesta gearing systems "work".
    Weird. I don't recalll getting ruined leather scraps from my skinned mobs instead of what I wanted for the sake of artificially extending my playtime.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  6. #226
    I don't get people who say things like "get BiS and stop playing"... what's the point of getting that BiS if you aren't going to do anything with it once you've got it? I know I didn't stop playing when I got BiS. I may have played my main slightly less in favor of working on an alt (when alts could actually be viable), but if I didn't do that, I still went and did other stuff like pvp, farm old content for mogs/mounts, help friends get things they wanted/needed, etc.

    Getting BiS doesn't automatically mean someone stops playing and I really wish people would stop implying that it does. There's something to be said for actually having an achievable goal that has a definitive end... at least until the next tier comes out. It's healthy to have a break from the treadmill and that's one of many things WoW lacks right now. You NEVER get off the treadmill these days. There's no end. You can never actually get BiS no matter how good you are or how much time you devote because there's always another layer of RnG you have to win the lottery with.
    Last edited by Kyriani; 2020-03-04 at 02:47 AM.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    with the old gear where you'd get Muh BiS and never play until the next patch?
    I'm gucci, my account's been active since the scarab wall opened and this is the least boring loot has ever been.

    However, if you're too pepega to set personal goals, you'll have issues with the system.
    I guess I just see the new additions tedious. I enjoyed the old days when I didn't have abilities locked behind grinds and rep

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by ano2024 View Post
    So they hire a lawyer as a game director to use his lawyer-speak and constantly put out fires that he started with his own lies.
    God this argument is so painful to read. Yes, in 2017 Blizzard said "OK we need a new game director, call up Goldberg Partners and see who's interested!" No.

    Ion was there for 10 years before he was game director. He also oversaw the absolute consistently best parts of the game during his time as non-game director: raiding (oh and it's still the best part of the game). If you were looking for someone to take a job, you'd probably look to people who had consistently performed and delivered. Regardless of current shortcomings of the overall game direction that do indeed fall on Ion's watch, the idea that a company specifically hired him to spout spin is just about as off-base as you can get. I hope you never held a job different than the one you currently have. Is everyone who ever took a job at McDonalds a lifelong "fry slinger"?

    Also, "many, many years of systems after systems that have been very poorly received" - Ion has been game director since mid-Legion, which was launched under Tom Chilton. Currently you have the majority of people saying they miss their Artifacts, miss their legendary selection, etc. and that BfA was stupid for axing them. So no, just one expansion with poor, reactionary choices and before it the most recent expansion where things were pretty cool.

  9. #229
    People cried about sets, so they tried something different.

    Lesson: Stop fucking crying.
    @thwart <- don't click this and learn his shame
    Newsflash: 2016 Thwart would hate 2019 Thwart! Definitely don't click this either!

    We see you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    I am absolutely a jerk, a complete cunt. But I encourage you to rise above.

  10. #230
    Gear should be removed from the game. PogChamp

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Akibaboy View Post
    God this argument is so painful to read. Yes, in 2017 Blizzard said "OK we need a new game director, call up Goldberg Partners and see who's interested!" No.

    Ion was there for 10 years before he was game director. He also oversaw the absolute consistently best parts of the game during his time as non-game director: raiding (oh and it's still the best part of the game). If you were looking for someone to take a job, you'd probably look to people who had consistently performed and delivered. Regardless of current shortcomings of the overall game direction that do indeed fall on Ion's watch, the idea that a company specifically hired him to spout spin is just about as off-base as you can get. I hope you never held a job different than the one you currently have. Is everyone who ever took a job at McDonalds a lifelong "fry slinger"?

    Also, "many, many years of systems after systems that have been very poorly received" - Ion has been game director since mid-Legion, which was launched under Tom Chilton. Currently you have the majority of people saying they miss their Artifacts, miss their legendary selection, etc. and that BfA was stupid for axing them. So no, just one expansion with poor, reactionary choices and before it the most recent expansion where things were pretty cool.
    The problem is that him being a good lead encounter designer doesn't mean he'll be a good lead for the entire game. I completely agree he did a great job in his previous position, I just don't think he does a great job in his current one. People also massively overrate Legion when it was essentially the same expansion as BfA just with artifacts/legendaries doing a better job at hiding how bad class design has gotten than their BfA equivalents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heladys View Post
    People cried about sets, so they tried something different.

    Lesson: Stop fucking crying.
    Blaming players for the devs doing a poor job with their replacement systems, classic.
    Tradushuffle
    <Echoes>
    Laughing Skull-EU

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    With that logic, majority of the players won't be "done" anyway, so system like forging is fine.


    PS. I hated titanforging.
    I kinda prefer the justice points/valor points, and i kind of miss it, i know not much people like it. But i think it was the best, and even reforging from cataclysm was good.

  13. #233
    Dreadlord sunxsera's Avatar
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    While the gearing system on retail isn`t good ( essences, azerite armor, corruption, titanforging etc. ) i `m also not a fan of the old raid tier sets ... they just remove 4 slot choices - just like the sets in diablo 3. ( i know it`s even worse in d3 with 5-6 slots. )

    I think the developers need to add a better way to customize you gear - without rng. Some corruption effects are super fun / good and, but they are just rng.

    Why not give your super awesome mythic gloves the "increase all amount of crit from your gear by +12%" corruption, for example.
    Playing a class that doesnt have super awesome aoe? - just add twilight devastation on an item.

    Of course there needs to be a limit, otherwise it couldn`t be balanced.

    But i`d actually like to customize my gear this way - without rng.

  14. #234
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    It is for a MMORPG, people who "Complete the game" (Inb4 "So you've done mythic N'Zoth already?") tend to unsub, which is bad for business with a subscription-based game, that's why we now have endless grinds, RNG on RNG (With a side-dish of RNG), and other forms of dragging things out.

    I can see both sides of the argument, these systems on systems are getting unwieldy and a pain to catch up on with alts or after a break, but i also understand that Blizz want to keep people playing and not reaching that "Ok, i have BiS everything, i'm done"-point, it's a tricky situation and i don't know the solution either...
    Completing the game isn’t completing your BiS gear set.

    People leave and give up because there’s no time for anything other than the Azerite treadmill and other endless gear systems, it’s part of why no one feels like they can have alts. You fall behind on these systems and it becomes impossible to enjoy the group content because no one wants you.

    The game needs the gating of running out of things to do in order for players to do all the things in game they’re giving up to grinding.

  15. #235
    What a disingenuous argument. Sure there were complaints about tier sets. There will always be some type of complaints about any system cause pretty much all systems can be improved in a game like wow. That does not mean that because people complained a worse system has to come out instead. Players didn't make titsnforging, it was originally said to be made to give raiders a passive buff every week through rng passive loot drops from already cleared content, not even complaining about gear. Azerite was never influenced by the players because the entire system was only on the beta for a week before launch, and when people instantly complained about terrible traits they said those were leveling traits. Turns out the traits were the same the whole way up. Azerite was not made by players bitching azerite was made by blizzard off of personal and public criticisms but only had internal feedback. We can speculate they knew azerite sucked and that's why it never went on one early and how little over a month till release huge class changes happened when they said they weren't gonna do big class changes (which was dumb cause they made classes around artifacts and removed them but whatever).

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyriani View Post
    I don't get people who say things like "get BiS and stop playing"... what's the point of getting that BiS if you aren't going to do anything with it once you've got it? I know I didn't stop playing when I got BiS. I may have played my main slightly less in favor of working on an alt (when alts could actually be viable), but if I didn't do that, I still went and did other stuff like pvp, farm old content for mogs/mounts, help friends get things they wanted/needed, etc.

    Getting BiS doesn't automatically mean someone stops playing and I really wish people would stop implying that it does. There's something to be said for actually having an achievable goal that has a definitive end... at least until the next tier comes out. It's healthy to have a break from the treadmill and that's one of many things WoW lacks right now. You NEVER get off the treadmill these days. There's no end. You can never actually get BiS no matter how good you are or how much time you devote because there's always another layer of RnG you have to win the lottery with.
    It's more like "alright i got everything i needed now i don't have anything else to do", well there's still many things to do, even when you get bis everything, and usually progression is for you, if you have all bis. Or i don't know, go do PVP stuff, PVP essences, something. Get higher m+ score, get achievements of the expansion, even do visions with 5 masks to get the mount etc. RNG and lottery are basically the same atm xD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    Blaming players for the devs doing a poor job with their replacement systems, classic.
    Honestly, what was the problem with tier sets? I always enjoyed them very much.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    It's more like "alright i got everything i needed now i don't have anything else to do", well there's still many things to do, even when you get bis everything, and usually progression is for you, if you have all bis. Or i don't know, go do PVP stuff, PVP essences, something. Get higher m+ score, get achievements of the expansion, even do visions with 5 masks to get the mount etc. RNG and lottery are basically the same atm xD

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    Honestly, what was the problem with tier sets? I always enjoyed them very much.
    Usually the complaints are:
    They cause balance issues (which is true, but they're also a potential solution to balance issues that only apply to the current raid)
    Only raiders get them (so add sets to other content too and maybe make each set only work in the content it came from)
    They lock in gear slots (sort of true except at least you could flex around a bit with only needing 4 out of 5/6 pieces, and running 4+2 couldtve been fixed by just making 4sets disable set bonuses from other tiers)
    They're boring, why do I get +Rejuv healing every tier just with different text? (fair enough, but that's also not a flaw of sets themselves but lazy bonus design)
    Tradushuffle
    <Echoes>
    Laughing Skull-EU

  18. #238
    Something feels wrong when my essence and corruption are top 3 of total damage.

  19. #239
    The systems would be perfectly fine if they were balanced and their damage wouldnt surpass abilities. Good ideas, bad implementantion. Im all down for it if they do it right.
    If you want simpletons, gear classic is right there for you.
    Last edited by Kendros; 2020-03-04 at 09:13 AM.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    No thanks replaying same content on different class is just not fun enough compared to proper progression on 1 siungle character.
    That depends. I rather put some catchup-gear on an alt I haven't played to death, rather than do hours of work to maybe get a small upgrade for my main.
    Mother pus bucket!

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