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  1. #1

    Blizzard's obsession with balancing sucked the fun out of the classes.

    Balancing is what led to the homogenization of all classes. It made the gameplay sterile and stale.

    Instead of focusing on making the classes feel fun, on giving them flavor, they focused on balancing. And as as inevitable result of that, we've seen pruning and standardization of abilities and all classes ending up playing the same like all others. Each class now has a button for X, a button for Y, a rotation that builds a resource and spends it etc...

    I'd take an unbalanced but fun game over a standardized and homogenized but polished turd any day.

  2. #2
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    That's funny. I keep hearing how everything is unbalanced. Also, fuck the ppl who say Blizzard never listened, because IMHO it is a direct result of listening.

    It is unfair that dwarf priests have fear ward, it is unfair that Alliance has Paladins, it is unfair that only warriors tank, it is unfair that I can't level in a heal / tank specc, it is unfair only Horde has shamans, it is unfair that we must bring a shaman for Bloodlust, it is unfair...it is unfair...bla..bla..bla..I bet I missed a ton.

    But yeah...ppl here still come to the end result that nothing is fun anymore. So you fit right in with your thread(as) and enjoy the attention.

  3. #3
    Warlock is always cool with his soulstone and summons.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  4. #4
    I am Murloc!
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    What's balanced about 50% of the player base getting a 15-20% dps increase from corruptions while the other half gets screwed over? Blizzard's obsession lies with RNG, not balance.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by thilicen View Post
    What's balanced about 50% of the player base getting a 15-20% dps increase from corruptions while the other half gets screwed over? Blizzard's obsession lies with RNG, not balance.
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    That's funny. I keep hearing how everything is unbalanced. Also, fuck the ppl who say Blizzard never listened, because IMHO it is a direct result of listening.

    It is unfair that dwarf priests have fear ward, it is unfair that Alliance has Paladins, it is unfair that only warriors tank, it is unfair that I can't level in a heal / tank specc, it is unfair only Horde has shamans, it is unfair that we must bring a shaman for Bloodlust, it is unfair...it is unfair...bla..bla..bla..I bet I missed a ton.

    But yeah...ppl here still come to the end result that nothing is fun anymore. So you fit right in with your thread(as) and enjoy the attention.


    That's exactly it though, your comments reinforce my argument.

    Blizzard has undeniably had a focus on balance AND YET they still failed at it. The game still feels unbalanced. So we have the worst of both worlds. No fun and unique classes that actually play differently, and no actual balance either!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by ano2024 View Post
    That's exactly it though, your comments reinforce my argument.

    Blizzard has undeniably had a focus on balance AND YET they still failed at it. The game still feels unbalanced. So we have the worst of both worlds. No fun and unique classes that actually play differently, and no actual balance either!
    Their responses don’t reinforce your argument because that was never the argument you made.
    I also have to ask, do you honestly sit at your computer or phone and type this forum up while acting like MM Hunter plays just like Fire or Frost Mage, let alone a BM Hunter?
    Yes, Blizzard is trying to make the game balanced to make every spec viable, and no they have not succeeded. That said, (a) there is no direct correlation that balancing lead to pruning, and (b) this seems like just another blog post with made up “facts” to bitch about a product you no longer enjoy instead of moving on to other things.

  7. #7
    As someone who plays mostly melee, I hate the change they made that certain specs “require” either DW or 2H (even tho they can equip both), and abilities are unusable if you don’t have them equipped.

    Sure, some specs were always more optimal with one over the other, but that’s fine. We don’t need to be optimal all they time... why can’t a BrM Monk (for example) keep using their 2H staff for World content as a WW?

  8. #8
    Titan Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ano2024 View Post
    Balancing is what led to the homogenization of all classes. It made the gameplay sterile and stale.

    Instead of focusing on making the classes feel fun, on giving them flavor, they focused on balancing. And as as inevitable result of that, we've seen pruning and standardization of abilities and all classes ending up playing the same like all others. Each class now has a button for X, a button for Y, a rotation that builds a resource and spends it etc...

    I'd take an unbalanced but fun game over a standardized and homogenized but polished turd any day.
    If Blizzard doesn't balance people scream and cry... apparently when they do balance people bitch and moan.

    and its funny you'd complain about anyone's obsession...

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    If Blizzard doesn't balance people scream and cry... apparently when they do balance people bitch and moan.
    People do that cause Blizzard don't seem to be able to make a fun game. So many people "scream and cry and bitch and moan" cause the game isn't fun.

  10. #10
    Titan Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ano2024 View Post
    People do that cause Blizzard don't seem to be able to make a fun game. So many people "scream and cry and bitch and moan" cause the game isn't fun.
    Yet, no matter what Blizzard does, clearly you aren't happy with anything they do, yet you are more than happy to throw your money at them. Why is that?

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal. -- Note to mods: if you are going to infract me have the decency to post the reason, and expect to hold everyone else to the same standard.

  11. #11
    Nothing is balanced eight now though...at all.

    This should be what you want. Whacky random effects deciding who is king of the meters.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by ano2024 View Post
    People do that cause Blizzard don't seem to be able to make a fun game. So many people "scream and cry and bitch and moan" cause the game isn't fun.
    This is correct. Blizzard can not make a game that is fun for everyone. There will always be people crying about everything.
    Like when someone only wants to play a game where every class does the same amount of damage and another guy wants to bring "fun" back (that is code for being OP right?), they have to hear one of them complain at least.

    But after reading the forums for the last decade, I think it's the player's obsession with balance that made them focus on balance so much.
    It's not a lot of fun to play a class when the "community" has decided that bringing you to raids or dungeons is just not meta enough. And that happens when you are 5% behind. Imagine looking for m+ as a classic moonkin.
    "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
    A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head."

  13. #13
    This is what happens when you push esports into a mmorpg
    You think you do, but you don't ©
    Rogues are fine ©
    We're pretty happy with rogues ©
    Haste will fix it ©

  14. #14
    Elemental Lord matheney2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    That's funny. I keep hearing how everything is unbalanced. Also, fuck the ppl who say Blizzard never listened, because IMHO it is a direct result of listening.

    It is unfair that dwarf priests have fear ward, it is unfair that Alliance has Paladins, it is unfair that only warriors tank, it is unfair that I can't level in a heal / tank specc, it is unfair only Horde has shamans, it is unfair that we must bring a shaman for Bloodlust, it is unfair...it is unfair...bla..bla..bla..I bet I missed a ton.

    But yeah...ppl here still come to the end result that nothing is fun anymore. So you fit right in with your thread(as) and enjoy the attention.
    Yet after all these years of listening to the players and working so hard to balance the game, look at the state it is in in 8.3 lmao. It is ridiculously unbalanced atm with corruptions running amok. 15+ years and the game is still just as unbalanced as ever. Do explain how that works?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by owbu View Post
    another guy wants to bring "fun" back (that is code for being OP right?)
    Of course he just wants to be OP, everyone who whines about balancing does. Either their class is 1% behind or they didn't get the loot drop they wanted (ie. corruption balancing whining)

    The problem with the lack of balance and "fun" is that its only fun for the one on the top. If you really enjoy the style of a certain class/spec, but you get never taken into groups because its weak, then thats not "fun". You feel excluded and even pressured to respec or even reroll. This is afterall not a single-player game where every class/spec exists in a vacuum with only NPCs who don't complain. There is PvP, and there is a social dynamic in PvE where stronger classes always get preferential treatment - even up to excluding the weaker specs.

    This is why you need balance. Do you think its "fun" to want to play a paladin tank in Classic, when everyone rolls their eyes at you and just wants a Warrior to tank for them?

    Having certain small niches is fine, and we still have that even today. But having entire roles that can only be filled properly by a single spec is not acceptable, hence balance is needed. In classic everyone wanted a Warrior to Tank and a Priest to heal. Now we have multiple options. That is significantly better.

    TL;DR: Balance is needed in a MMO, to a certain degree. It doesn't have to be 100% perfect, thats impossible anyway, but it should be close enough.
    Last edited by Nevcairiel; 2020-03-01 at 10:04 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ano2024 View Post
    Balancing is what led to the homogenization of all classes. It made the gameplay sterile and stale.

    Instead of focusing on making the classes feel fun, on giving them flavor, they focused on balancing. And as as inevitable result of that, we've seen pruning and standardization of abilities and all classes ending up playing the same like all others. Each class now has a button for X, a button for Y, a rotation that builds a resource and spends it etc...

    I'd take an unbalanced but fun game over a standardized and homogenized but polished turd any day.
    It’s because Blizzard are turning WoW more and more into an action rpg where instanced content like raids and M+ are 95% of the game.

    Personally I like it that way because I like the instanced content. But I understand why other people don’t.

  17. #17
    All your thread titles are missing "for me personally" at the end.

  18. #18
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ano2024 View Post
    That's exactly it though, your comments reinforce my argument.

    Blizzard has undeniably had a focus on balance AND YET they still failed at it. The game still feels unbalanced. So we have the worst of both worlds. No fun and unique classes that actually play differently, and no actual balance either!
    Nope, my comment does not reinforce anything you say. Unless you want to put the "we have no balance" into your OP and make clear that it doesn't come from class design, but through RNG on gear. And even then it doesn't only affect class vs class but even players of a class vs players in the same class depending on RNG.

    As always...yeah...easy to say "Make it fun again" whatever "fun" mean to any of us. Seeing that some ppl think it is "fun" to corpse camp, camp GY's, grief or only find their class fun when they are OP, I'd love to hear ideas how ppl would make your own favorite class "fun" again.

    But ok...judging by the last line in the OP, I guess the unbalanced fun must have been Classic, when..as I said, only one class tanked, some classes were only allowed to heal and some were just allowed to tag along to buff.

    Would have been nice to add an example when ppl think their class had identity and were most "fun" to play in the OP - if only to see ppl come here to agree (or disagree)

    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    Yet after all these years of listening to the players and working so hard to balance the game, look at the state it is in in 8.3 lmao. It is ridiculously unbalanced atm with corruptions running amok. 15+ years and the game is still just as unbalanced as ever. Do explain how that works?
    Fair point about the corruption. Yet that is not what OP is on about. He says classes are un-fun because of homogenisation and they have no identity. (yeah..I know...he keeps adding to his OP with additional replies.

  19. #19
    FFXIV is almost perfectly balanced and almost always is: only slipping up typically for the first few months of an expansion.

    Their inability to balance things has nothing to do with the classes getting stale, its just bad devs.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  20. #20
    I don't even know how a thread like this can be made. None of the specs play like each other. Fire Mage plays nothing like a SPriest. Moonkin plays nothing like an Elemental Shaman. Each spec has its own individual feel and you can only come to the conclusion that classes are "homogenized" if you subscribe to the oh-so-fucking-original school of thought that everything Blizzard does is because fuck you and you individually.

    Some classes are more dull than others, yes, but this idea that they "all play the same" is total fucking bullshit.

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