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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by thilicen View Post
    What's balanced about 50% of the player base getting a 15-20% dps increase from corruptions while the other half gets screwed over? Blizzard's obsession lies with RNG, not balance.
    Aside from very specific fights, it's only that high for the people that are bad as their spec.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfNone View Post
    he said players as in general, not classes
    Dont be pedantic. We all know exactly what they meant. Hopefully we dont die of old age before they're willing to back up their claim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterOfNone View Post
    rofl. now thats a bit of a stretch. come back to earth
    No, it's really not. If you came back to reality you would see it.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post

    Hell even some of the crafting jobs in FF14 have more flavor than WoW's classes I play many alts in WoW and literally all of them can easily follow my strict template of keybindings because they all have the same abilities basically, they are just named differently and have different animations.
    This is just flat out misinformation.

    I have three crafting classes at max level in FFXIV (Blacksmith, Woodworker, and Alchemist), and all three have LITERALLY the same skills, so much so that as I was leveling Alchemist, I was simply swapping back to one of my other two classes to see my hot bar set up, and putting the exact same ability in the exact same spot so I could just muscle memory every craft.

    You also said you don't look at logs, so how exactly can you tell us that XIV's class design and balance is "Light years" ahead of WoW? Especially when the Tank and Healer Jobs all play functionally identical to one another.

    Yes, XIV's jobs have more buttons to press, but that's not necessarily a good thing. Ninja, my favorite DPS job, has gone from being a fluid combat rotation to a god damn clusterfuck of trying to maintain track of four different resources at any given time (with a UI that is absolutely god awful), to the point where there's no fluidity, just button mashing.

    That's not fun, that's fucking terrible, and it's sucking the fun out of trying to play the job.

  3. #43
    I am Murloc! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ano2024 View Post
    Balancing is what led to the homogenization of all classes. It made the gameplay sterile and stale.

    Instead of focusing on making the classes feel fun, on giving them flavor, they focused on balancing. And as as inevitable result of that, we've seen pruning and standardization of abilities and all classes ending up playing the same like all others. Each class now has a button for X, a button for Y, a rotation that builds a resource and spends it etc...

    I'd take an unbalanced but fun game over a standardized and homogenized but polished turd any day.
    Blizzard doesn't give a flying !@£& about balance, otherwise we wouldn't be seeing rogues/DHs in their current state (especially in high M+), while on the other hand you have eternal underdogs like arcane or holy priest, which are either nerfed as soon as they are good at something, or remaining largely ignored. And no, a couple of pitiful buffs here and there are irrelevant.

    Not that it matters a lot, since a good third part of your DPS these days comes from lolcorruptions, which are also laughably "balanced" (infinite stars by 8.3 launch, my sides). Did you win the lottery with a high rank of IS/TD? Good. You didn't? Enjoy the last place in the DPS charts, scrub.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danuser
    we created a story structure for Sylvanas that, on the surface, echoed many broad strokes of the road Garrosh took (...). These parallels were intentional. But it's within the nuance that we sought to show the story grow and change.
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    BFA was about as nuanced as a golf club to the testicles/ovaries.

  4. #44
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I don't even know how a thread like this can be made. None of the specs play like each other. Fire Mage plays nothing like a SPriest. Moonkin plays nothing like an Elemental Shaman. Each spec has its own individual feel and you can only come to the conclusion that classes are "homogenized" if you subscribe to the oh-so-fucking-original school of thought that everything Blizzard does is because fuck you and you individually.

    Some classes are more dull than others, yes, but this idea that they "all play the same" is total fucking bullshit.
    To me several speccs ("many" - to be just another hyperbolic asshole on this forum) are similar in a way that they work with my general button layout, where I have 1,2,3 for the main single target attacks, 7,8 for interrups, then there is the group of binds for multi targets. Some shift modifiers to trigger my CDs and one key that is taunt on tanks, shield on healers, stealth on...stealth classes. But what is consecrate on my tank is a combo point spender on classes with combo points etc.

    Maybe it only feels similar because I programmed it into my brain...I try to have an alt with every specc, but for example for druids, I never got the hand of moonkin...that feels very special and distinct for example

    Ofc everytime Blizzard tries and make a class different with a gimmick (survival hunters, shadow priests) the bitching isn't far away.

    I am only here for the entertainment value...obviously since forever, we had ppl suggesting how every other MMO out there does stuff better - it is not like ppl NEED to stick to WoW, especially since the game has the audacity to cost you 15 bucks a month...when there are so many better and free alternatives out there

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    That's funny. I keep hearing how everything is unbalanced. Also, fuck the ppl who say Blizzard never listened, because IMHO it is a direct result of listening.

    It is unfair that dwarf priests have fear ward, it is unfair that Alliance has Paladins, it is unfair that only warriors tank, it is unfair that I can't level in a heal / tank specc, it is unfair only Horde has shamans, it is unfair that we must bring a shaman for Bloodlust, it is unfair...it is unfair...bla..bla..bla..I bet I missed a ton.

    But yeah...ppl here still come to the end result that nothing is fun anymore. So you fit right in with your thread(as) and enjoy the attention.
    very true, people have been complaining about balance forever and the result is blizzard listening

    but maybe balance is not fun?

  6. #46
    Old God Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    I feel like we're partly to blame since we cried pretty much since day one whenever some other class beat us at something.

    Rock, paper, scissors shouldn't be balanced
    I can't disagree with this assessment.

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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Not like Blizzard gave a lot of fuel to people by adding rather competitive modes such as Arena, Mythic raiding and M+.

    I'm not arguing for the removal of these modes, but you also have to say, if you introduce these modes and put the best rewards behind it, people expect a modicum of balance.
    Yes, this one is more on Blizzard than the fans, really. Them trying to push an MMO into being competitive/e-sportsy when the genre itself has been successful due to the completely opposite reasons is just such a braindead move. But hey, if you want to have to hide your sub numbers, that's one way to do it.

  8. #48
    true, but i don't think it's just their obsession with balancing, also it's funny how they fucked the classes but balance is still shit.. says a lot about blizzard

  9. #49
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ano2024 View Post
    Balancing is what led to the homogenization of all classes. It made the gameplay sterile and stale.

    Instead of focusing on making the classes feel fun, on giving them flavor, they focused on balancing. And as as inevitable result of that, we've seen pruning and standardization of abilities and all classes ending up playing the same like all others. Each class now has a button for X, a button for Y, a rotation that builds a resource and spends it etc...

    I'd take an unbalanced but fun game over a standardized and homogenized but polished turd any day.
    Blizzard's obsession? do you mean the players obsession? blizz has many times in the past stated and made stuff to be purposfully overpowered or underpowered.
    Death knights were made to be stronger then other classes. but issue is players want balance, in these days if their class and spec is not the best spec, then its the worst spec.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrif View Post
    Yes, this one is more on Blizzard than the fans, really. Them trying to push an MMO into being competitive/e-sportsy when the genre itself has been successful due to the completely opposite reasons is just such a braindead move. But hey, if you want to have to hide your sub numbers, that's one way to do it.
    A game does not need to be balanced to be competitive, look to blizzards other games, hearthstone, starcraft, overwatch, their charecterrs, playstyles, etc, are not balanced, but they are countered by eachother. and blizz understands this, but wow players NEED their class to be the best, or they get mad.

  10. #50
    they should really never nerf.

    if, for example, warlock is too strong, buff every other class to be as strong.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    yet you are more than happy to throw your money at them. Why is that?
    You know you don't need to use actual money for anything wow related anymore.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    FFXIV is almost perfectly balanced and almost always is: only slipping up typically for the first few months of an expansion.

    Their inability to balance things has nothing to do with the classes getting stale, its just bad devs.
    Oh, clearly. It can't be because that game has no class specializations. You want to be a warrior? Then you must be a tank. You want to dial wield weapons? Your only choice is a rogue/ninja. Let's not pretend the devs of that game are geniuses of some kind, they just put themselves in a box and severely limited class play styles, nothing more.

  13. #53
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    very true, people have been complaining about balance forever and the result is blizzard listening

    but maybe balance is not fun?
    Like I said (I think in a later reply) - could be what made Classic work for ppl. That it is unbalanced. But also that was 2005 and we all had no clue. If you rolled a certain class, you assumed the role.

    Personally I think Paladins for Alliance and Shamans for Horde was a great ide. But I am also shooting myself in the foot with this, because I main a Horde Paladin for ages now.

    During TBC BT Illidan, out warrior tank quit. The only other geared tank that could jump in we had was a druid, who was useless due to a mechanic that needed to be blocked (long ago...this is how I remember it anyhow). That imbalance was not fun....as wasn't the whole "you are a priest, you cannot be shadow if you want to raid with us" in TBC.

    Some things are awesome in hindsight....but this is 2020 and meanwhile we have gone through all of this "play whatever you want" (I am aware that we still aren't there...you cannot do current mythic raids with just rogues and mages. But if that is what ppl want, it is futile to discuss anyhow.

  14. #54
    The Unstoppable Force Super Kami Dende's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    FFXIV is almost perfectly balanced and almost always is: only slipping up typically for the first few months of an expansion.

    Their inability to balance things has nothing to do with the classes getting stale, its just bad devs.
    That's a joke right? FFXIV still has balance issues even with 1/3rd the Specs in the game.

    With only 11 DPS "specs" there is still a slanted trend when it comes to DPS. Just like in WOW.

    https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/33#dpstype=pdps
    Last edited by Super Kami Dende; 2020-03-01 at 04:16 PM.

  15. #55
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    You know you don't need to use actual money for anything wow related anymore.
    Don't open the can of worms that will attract the fish that turn this into a "yes, you do...WoW is p2w...because token is $$$" thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seranthor View Post
    I can't disagree with this assessment.
    But isn't rock paper scissors THE balanced game? You just need to pull the lucky / proper tool to counter. Both parties have all 3 "speccs" at their disposal.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    A game does not need to be balanced to be competitive, look to blizzards other games, hearthstone, starcraft, overwatch, their charecterrs, playstyles, etc, are not balanced, but they are countered by eachother. and blizz understands this, but wow players NEED their class to be the best, or they get mad.
    I guess that boils down to it being the only way to distinguish yourself in raids nowadays. In the games you mentioned you play to win and that's it, but in WoW everyone can kill the bosses so it's all about topping the damage meters instead, which in turn hugely increases their demand on a well balanced or overperforming class.

  17. #57
    Stood in the Fire KoolKidKaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    That's funny. I keep hearing how everything is unbalanced. Also, fuck the ppl who say Blizzard never listened, because IMHO it is a direct result of listening.

    It is unfair that dwarf priests have fear ward, it is unfair that Alliance has Paladins, it is unfair that only warriors tank, it is unfair that I can't level in a heal / tank specc, it is unfair only Horde has shamans, it is unfair that we must bring a shaman for Bloodlust, it is unfair...it is unfair...bla..bla..bla..I bet I missed a ton.

    But yeah...ppl here still come to the end result that nothing is fun anymore. So you fit right in with your thread(as) and enjoy the attention.
    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH

    Everything you just listed has nothing to do with play style and the way classes feel, congrats you just wasted everyone's time with a pointless reply.

    And the current game isn't what players asked for, most of the worst ideas implemented in retail no one asked for. No one sat there and said hey we should randomly get loot that triggers a 2-16 item level boost completely random.

    No one asked for LFR, they asked for easier raids for the more casual player, which could have easily just been an easier raid, not an entirely random toxic LFD style raid, where the worst players migrate to, and the worst trolls to make sure it's harder than normal content to finish.

    No one asked for Cross Realm Zones, they just wanted a way to group with friends from another server, not merge servers together so it really doesn't matter what server you're on.

    Stop acting like the community brought retail upon themselves, Devs change class playstyle every singe expansion for no reason, other than to make it feel more shiny and new. Even though it's just a polished turd.

  18. #58
    Elemental Lord Gimlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ano2024 View Post
    Balancing is what led to the homogenization of all classes. It made the gameplay sterile and stale.

    Instead of focusing on making the classes feel fun, on giving them flavor, they focused on balancing. And as as inevitable result of that, we've seen pruning and standardization of abilities and all classes ending up playing the same like all others. Each class now has a button for X, a button for Y, a rotation that builds a resource and spends it etc...

    I'd take an unbalanced but fun game over a standardized and homogenized but polished turd any day.
    I have always thought like you did.
    Removal of anything fun (like hunters being able to control their pet etc) it might be unnecessary and maybe unbalanced at some ways. but that made WoW fun.
    The way to be able to fuck around due the ways bugging/balancing worked.

    Now everyone must be on the same line or else it aint fair and if it aint fair it aint fun which is not true at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekora View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by ano2024 View Post
    Balancing is what led to the homogenization of all classes. It made the gameplay sterile and stale.

    Instead of focusing on making the classes feel fun, on giving them flavor, they focused on balancing. And as as inevitable result of that, we've seen pruning and standardization of abilities and all classes ending up playing the same like all others. Each class now has a button for X, a button for Y, a rotation that builds a resource and spends it etc...

    I'd take an unbalanced but fun game over a standardized and homogenized but polished turd any day.
    The issue is that there are too many viable classes and specs now.

    Classic is better in that you level a character and know what you’re going to get there are only like 12 viable specs.

    In live they are trying to keep 40 specs balanced and it’s just stupid... rolling a tank at the start of an expansion is like playing roulette.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  20. #60
    I am Murloc! dacoolist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoolKidKaos View Post
    WOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH

    Everything you just listed has nothing to do with play style and the way classes feel, congrats you just wasted everyone's time with a pointless reply.

    And the current game isn't what players asked for, most of the worst ideas implemented in retail no one asked for. No one sat there and said hey we should randomly get loot that triggers a 2-16 item level boost completely random.

    No one asked for LFR, they asked for easier raids for the more casual player, which could have easily just been an easier raid, not an entirely random toxic LFD style raid, where the worst players migrate to, and the worst trolls to make sure it's harder than normal content to finish.

    No one asked for Cross Realm Zones, they just wanted a way to group with friends from another server, not merge servers together so it really doesn't matter what server you're on.

    Stop acting like the community brought retail upon themselves, Devs change class playstyle every singe expansion for no reason, other than to make it feel more shiny and new. Even though it's just a polished turd.
    The community is the entire reason BFA is BFA, it's what the community wanted unfortunately brother - All of these quick changes to fix new systems were changes the community wanted as well. NOW, I will say the corrupted system was blizzards anti titanforge thing that tbh.. I mean it pretty much backfired as far as I can tell - Corruption is super unbalanced even after the balance passes because from people like Preacher: You literally play roulette every time you fight a boss - even people with the SAME corruptions get HUGE differences per pull etc..


    ANYWAY, I love you all

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