If you had to pick one. Nationalism, Socialism?

[Doctor Amadeus]

If you had to pick one ideology in a elected official Nationalism, Socialism?

Between the two I’m going with socialism.

[Machismo]

Some people chose both.

[Lynarii]

If you had to pick one ideology in a elected official Nationalism, Socialism?

Between the two I’m going with socialism.

Those are independent ideologies, so they aren't really related to each other?

And with most viable ideologies, it's less what they are and more 'how rabid are they' about it. A certain degree of nationalism, socialism, or even both (having some of both does not auto make one a nazi) can be beneficial, but a zealot is a bad thing even when the ideology they follow is basically decent.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Those are independent ideologies, so they aren't really related to each other?

And with most viable ideologies, it's less what they are and more 'how rabid are they' about it. A certain degree of nationalism, socialism, or even both (having some of both does not auto make one a nazi) can be beneficial, but a zealot is a bad thing even when the ideology they follow is basically decent.

No amount of nationalism is good imo.

[Lynarii]

No amount of nationalism is good imo.

I disagree. In small amounts, it's a lodestone to build a sense of community around. And even if you want to help the whole world, you have to get your own affairs in order first if you want to maintain the capability of helping others, and a small amount of nationalism can be a motivating factor in getting people to work to improve their nation. It becomes a bad thing when it goes past a desire to support your nation and into looking down and attempting to harm others, which is admittedly a direction it often ends up going.

[Teleros]

No amount of nationalism is good imo.

Yeah, it's definitely better to pick the ideology that's killed upwards of a hundred million people than to hurt the feelings of foreigners .

We got some big brains in this thread I see.

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Those are independent ideologies, so they aren't really related to each other?

Well quite. Pick one: apples or tennis rackets .

A certain degree of nationalism, socialism, or even both (having some of both does not auto make one a nazi)

That's just what a nazi would say though!!!1!

a zealot is a bad thing even when the ideology they follow is basically decent.

I think it's more that zealots tend to forget the inconvenient bits of whatever it is they're zealous about. There's also the fact that people can't even get the definitions right: old Mean Mr Moustache used German nationalism as a vehicle for German imperialism, and of course everyone pretends that the socialism he both preached & practised never existed .

[unbound]

By 'patriotism' I mean devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force upon other people. Patriotism is of its nature defensive, both militarily and culturally. Nationalism, on the other hand, is inseparable from the desire for power. The abiding purpose of every nationalist is to secure more power and more prestige, not for himself but for the nation or other unit in which he has chosen to sink his own individuality.

- George Orwell, Notes on Nationalism

Anyways, while I voted for Socialism because Nationalism is, ultimately, bad, they aren't two sides of the same coin or anything of that nature.

Nationalism is an ideology and movement that promotes the interest of a particular nation. Socialism is political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems.

[Orange Joe]

Yeah, it's definitely better to pick the ideology that's killed upwards of a hundred million people than to hurt the feelings of foreigners .

Wait you really think nationalism hasn't killed anyone?

We got some big brains in this thread I see.

[Draco-Onis]

I disagree. In small amounts, it's a lodestone to build a sense of community around. And even if you want to help the whole world, you have to get your own affairs in order first if you want to maintain the capability of helping others, and a small amount of nationalism can be a motivating factor in getting people to work to improve their nation. It becomes a bad thing when it goes past a desire to support your nation and into looking down and attempting to harm others, which is admittedly a direction it often ends up going.

Small amount of nationalism is called patriotism, and getting your affairs in order first basically says your nation can't walk and chew gum at the same time which speaks to its competence. You can say prioritize national problems first but saying you got to fix all of them first makes no sense.

[Daedius]

I hate this black and white mentality that seems to especially perpetuate from Americans. You can have a mixture of both...

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I don't think the ideals of either are really mass murder. But it's pretty clear that the people that try to enforce these ideologies upon others are often mass murders. Like most political ideologies they work well on paper but the element of greed and ambishion baked into humanity fails them all pretty hard.

[Teleros]

George Orwell, Notes on Nationalism

Eh, I think he's wrong on that one, though given the period he lived & wrote in I can understand why. If you look at the etymology of both words they're basically synonyms. However, you had people like Mussolini, Hitler et al using nationalism rhetoric for imperialist ends - "Italians number one! Therefore let's build an empire!" - the second half does not follow from the first, but then that's rhetoric for you.

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Edit

I don't think the ideals of either are really mass murder.

Should read Marx some time. The ghastly fellow positively revelled in the idea of exterminating the bourgeoisie & instituting a reign of terror.

[Lynarii]

- George Orwell, Notes on Nationalism

Anyways, while I voted for Socialism because Nationalism is, ultimately, bad, they aren't two sides of the same coin or anything of that nature.

Nationalism is an ideology and movement that promotes the interest of a particular nation. Socialism is political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems.

If you use that distinction between patriotism and nationalism then yes, I would agree that no amount of nationalism is good. I generally don't draw that specific line, so to be clear, when I say that a small amount is okay I mean that there's nothing wrong with having a degree of pride in where you came from and a desire to improve it. No moreso than that.

[zorkuus]

Some people chose both.

National socialism. It has a nice ring to it, someone should try it out.

[Lynarii]

Small amount of nationalism is called patriotism, and getting your affairs in order first basically says your nation can't walk and chew gum at the same time which speaks to its competence. You can say prioritize national problems first but saying you got to fix all of them first makes no sense.

Getting one's affairs in order doesn't mean fixing every problem ever. It just means you have to maintain stability and prioritize in a manner that helping others doesn't compromise one's ability to help others. It's the same reason on an airplane you're told to do your own oxygen mask first in an emergency.

[JohnBrown1917]

Some people chose both.

They actually oppose eachother, unless you fell for nazi propaganda.

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Wait you really think nationalism hasn't killed anyone?

He is using the made-up red scare numbers for the amount of supposed deaths, so his views are clear.

[Machismo]

National socialism. It has a nice ring to it, someone should try it out.

Don't worry, the Trumpsters are.

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They actually oppose eachother, unless you fell for nazi propaganda.

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He is using the made-up red scare numbers for the amount of supposed deaths, so his views are clear.

I'm not the one who fell for it, but plenty in my country have.

[zorkuus]

Don't worry, the Trumpsters are.

I hope they don't invade Poland.

[Teleros]

He is using the made-up red scare numbers for the amount of supposed deaths, so his views are clear.

Please don't spread your conspiracy theory garbage here, it's against the rules.

[kail]

Ughhh, neither? Why are the two being compared?