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  1. #1

    New level requirements for Legacy raids

    Hi folks.

    If you all check your armory in the Dungeons & Raids tab, you can, at time of writing at least, see the new level requirements for SOME of the old raids. Listed in current level order, they are:

    20
    Black Temple
    Ulduar

    25
    Firelands

    35
    Emerald Nightmare
    Trial of Valor
    Nighthold
    Tomb of Sargeras

    68
    Karazhan

    Rest of the raids, including Antorus, are listed at their current level requirements.

    If this holds true, how would you feel about this? Unlocking raids at low levels with the new scaling system seems a bit weird to me.

  2. #2
    Scarab Lord Geisl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throwme View Post
    If this holds true, how would you feel about this? Unlocking raids at low levels with the new scaling system seems a bit weird to me.
    Lower level but each level should feel more meaningful.

    Think of RPGs where your character goes from 1-20 and have extreme jumps of power within 5 lvls etc.

    I'm alright with it. It feels annoying that say 1-2lvls doesn't feel that powerful now compared to 1-2 lvls in say Classic.

  3. #3
    Nice catch seems pretty Hodge podge as to what has been changed so far.

  4. #4
    I mean, how else were they gonna do it? If they put everything at 50, there'd be no real connection to the old levels anymore. This is a decent way to keep at least some chronological order of expansions. I dunno. It's gonna feel awkward no matter what you do. It's not all that different from what it is right now though, is it? Vanilla raids unlock at 60. That's half the way to max level. Which is what 25 would currently look like... So it's about the same

  5. #5
    Obviously subject to change, but I'm not really sure what the intent is with these levels. Like, from what we can glean...

    Van - ??
    BC - 20
    WotLK - 20
    Cata - 25
    MoP - ??
    WoD - ??
    Leg - 35
    BfA - ??

    ...there isn't a lot of rhyme or reason here. Maybe they're grouped like the current leveling spread? So maybe MoP will be 25, WoD will be 30, and BfA will be 40.

    I kind of figured they'd lump all legacy raids into the 35-40 range, with BfA's raids being lowered to join them once SL actually launches.
    Last edited by Bwgmon; 2020-03-05 at 12:41 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Bwgmon View Post
    Obviously subject to change, but I'm not really sure what the intent is with these levels. Like, from what we can glean...

    Van - ??
    BC - 20
    WotLK - 20
    Cata - 25
    MoP - ??
    WoD - ??
    Leg - 35
    BfA - ??

    ...there isn't a lot of rhyme ore reason here.
    Well, for leveling purposes now tbc and wrath as well as mop and cata are lumped together so those make sense.

    My guess is vanilla 15, tbc/wrath 20, cata/mop 25, wod 30, legion 35, and BfA either 40 or 50, probably 50. Though looks like they could stand to bump everything up 10 levels

  7. #7
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    Kara is 68? Or is that the dungeon version?

  8. #8
    I really hope they're soloable at that level, would be neat to be able to actually finish off an eras content in 1-5 man group by clearing some of the raids. Doesn't make much sense to level 1-50 in Northrend only to jump the Shadowlands without killing the Lich King.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    Kara is 68? Or is that the dungeon version?
    Kara is 68 normally I think. As in, you can enter and play it at 68.

    As for all of these. It sure is suspect that these changes are showing on the armory, but they don't feel right. If the scaling is equal across the board, then everything should be divided by roughly 2.4, which would make Classic raids around level 25. It falls apart a bit because it would make TBC raids 29.1, which could be rounded up to 30, sure. But then WoTLK would be 33.3, which could also be rounded up to 35, but then.. Cataclysm would be 35.1, which.. well, yeah, you probably get the problem that causes.

    MoP would be 37.5, WoD 41.6, Legion 45.8 and BfA 50.

    Sooo there is some stuff to work out there, particularly around Cataclysm and MoP, due to the fact that those were the expansions with 5 level increments rather than 10.

    Maybe Classic could be 20 if Blizzard really has problem fitting some expac content in between 10 and 50, but I doubt TBC would be 20.

  10. #10
    Not sure about the kara thing...i think that was always 68 and wouldnt make sense for Shadowlands cause the level cap is 60...

    Can kinda explain Black Temple, Ulduar, and Firelands as they are timewalking and maybe they will extend it to level 20+s but the legion raids are the interesting part

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by spalernTJ View Post
    I mean, how else were they gonna do it? If they put everything at 50, there'd be no real connection to the old levels anymore. This is a decent way to keep at least some chronological order of expansions. I dunno. It's gonna feel awkward no matter what you do. It's not all that different from what it is right now though, is it? Vanilla raids unlock at 60. That's half the way to max level. Which is what 25 would currently look like... So it's about the same

    There is no real reason to do the old levels if it's not at max level for mogs or mounts. Nothing you do will ever make the content like it was when it was current.
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  12. #12
    The Insane Chickat's Avatar
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    They should just make all of them 30. That way all of them would be soloable by 50 the current cap, and by 60 they would all be faceroll. I suppose bfà would have to be kept 50 until 10.0 so it's not faceroll.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Kara is 68 normally I think. As in, you can enter and play it at 68.

    As for all of these. It sure is suspect that these changes are showing on the armory, but they don't feel right. If the scaling is equal across the board, then everything should be divided by roughly 2.4, which would make Classic raids around level 25. It falls apart a bit because it would make TBC raids 29.1, which could be rounded up to 30, sure. But then WoTLK would be 33.3, which could also be rounded up to 35, but then.. Cataclysm would be 35.1, which.. well, yeah, you probably get the problem that causes.

    MoP would be 37.5, WoD 41.6, Legion 45.8 and BfA 50.

    Sooo there is some stuff to work out there, particularly around Cataclysm and MoP, due to the fact that those were the expansions with 5 level increments rather than 10.

    Maybe Classic could be 20 if Blizzard really has problem fitting some expac content in between 10 and 50, but I doubt TBC would be 20.
    Do these calculations take current level scaling into account though? TBC and Wrath follow the same levels right now, do they not? Including raids? Same with Mop / Cata

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by spalernTJ View Post
    Do these calculations take current level scaling into account though? TBC and Wrath follow the same levels right now, do they not? Including raids? Same with Mop / Cata
    Do the raids follow the same levels? I didn't notice that, to be fair. I thought that was only in terms of leveling.

    In that case, they do not take those into account.

  15. #15
    Could not think of a dumber way to do this.


    New characters level up during a key area of the game, by picking which era they served the Alliance/Horde.
    In whichever one you choose, you go from 1 to 50.

    It does not make sense to be leveling in Northerend and suddenly be told you could/should now go check out Molten Core at some random level 20 or whatever.
    Midway through leveling in BC and having access to the raids makes no sense, nor does it make much sense that once you reach 48 or whatever you can now do BFA raids.


    Makes more sense to me
    You level 1 to 50 in whichever era/expansion.
    Raids are 50. Full stop. All raids prior to Shadowlands. Or 45 perhaps to enter and completely soloable at 50.
    Once Shadowlands is over, it slots down into that system as well.

    This rescaling of the world treats each era as its own time bubble. It doesnt make sense to be able to venture off into other raids at arbitrary levels. After completing your leveling to 50, you are a 'veteran' of that war/expedition/etc, the previous ones wernt harder/easier, the future ones are simply just in the future, not harder but more current (level wise).

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Squigglyo View Post
    Could not think of a dumber way to do this.


    New characters level up during a key area of the game, by picking which era they served the Alliance/Horde.
    In whichever one you choose, you go from 1 to 50.

    It does not make sense to be leveling in Northerend and suddenly be told you could/should now go check out Molten Core at some random level 20 or whatever.
    Midway through leveling in BC and having access to the raids makes no sense, nor does it make much sense that once you reach 48 or whatever you can now do BFA raids.


    Makes more sense to me
    You level 1 to 50 in whichever era/expansion.
    Raids are 50. Full stop. All raids prior to Shadowlands. Or 45 perhaps to enter and completely soloable at 50.
    Once Shadowlands is over, it slots down into that system as well.

    This rescaling of the world treats each era as its own time bubble. It doesnt make sense to be able to venture off into other raids at arbitrary levels. After completing your leveling to 50, you are a 'veteran' of that war/expedition/etc, the previous ones wernt harder/easier, the future ones are simply just in the future, not harder but more current (level wise).
    What an amazing idea. Nobody would care about level 50 raids from 10 years ago (that would be horribly tuned anyway), but you would piss off whole HUGE crowd that does transmog runs.

  17. #17
    It *would* be really cool if you could level with LFR that early on...

  18. #18
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Kara is 68 normally I think. As in, you can enter and play it at 68.
    Yep. Technically, so long as you did the attunement quests, you could set foot in Kara at 68. Of course you wouldn't get very far . . .

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Squigglyo View Post
    Could not think of a dumber way to do this.


    New characters level up during a key area of the game, by picking which era they served the Alliance/Horde.
    In whichever one you choose, you go from 1 to 50.

    It does not make sense to be leveling in Northerend and suddenly be told you could/should now go check out Molten Core at some random level 20 or whatever.
    Midway through leveling in BC and having access to the raids makes no sense, nor does it make much sense that once you reach 48 or whatever you can now do BFA raids.


    Makes more sense to me
    You level 1 to 50 in whichever era/expansion.
    Raids are 50. Full stop. All raids prior to Shadowlands. Or 45 perhaps to enter and completely soloable at 50.
    Once Shadowlands is over, it slots down into that system as well.

    This rescaling of the world treats each era as its own time bubble. It doesnt make sense to be able to venture off into other raids at arbitrary levels. After completing your leveling to 50, you are a 'veteran' of that war/expedition/etc, the previous ones wernt harder/easier, the future ones are simply just in the future, not harder but more current (level wise).
    This reeks of a misunderstanding of Blizzard's proposed changes.

    Everything will still have their own cap relative to how it was before (60, 70, 80, 85, etc.) but it'll just be proportionally scaled so that 50 is the new 120.

    When Chromie Time is used (which may or may not be usable in raids), everything scales from 1 to 50. Except, possibly raids and dungeons. Although I can imagine it will be possible to activate in dungeon (and will by default in lfg)

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Squigglyo View Post
    You level 1 to 50 in whichever era/expansion.
    Raids are 50. Full stop. All raids prior to Shadowlands. Or 45 perhaps to enter and completely soloable at 50.
    This would be the 'best' solution, but the vocal minority with their army of alts would never allow it.

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