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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by shade3891 View Post
    - - - Updated - - -



    No so you can pick what you think is best/most fun and don't give it any afterthought
    Thats not how this game or the players work, sorry. As long as character progression is tied to it, it either needs to be perfectly balanced from the start or be changable.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    Outlier. For the most part balance is pretty great and the difference between the best and second / third / fourth / etc is quite small. So yeah for the most part it's a tryhard only issue unless you're at the very top end. Comparing best to worst is a little disingenuous, and also dealing purely in percentages - 20% of a nominal amount of still a nominal amount.
    https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#d...tacking&tier=3

    (my favorite)
    https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#w...tacking&tier=3

    https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#d...tacking&tier=3

    https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#p...tacking&tier=3

    "just an outliner" i could go on with corruptions/essences and shit but let me tell you every single class has a substantial diffrence in bis and dog traits
    Last edited by Feral Druid ist Op; 2020-03-06 at 05:42 PM.

  3. #223
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uko View Post
    The covenants abilities are not going to be slight power differences. The swings in power are going to be ridiculous depending on if you have the good one versus the bad ones. Its like someone using a rank 1 crucible of flame versus someone with a rank 3 bis essence. Sure you can do content while just using the rank 1 essence but nobody will want you if you don't have the good ones in any meaningful or challenging content.
    um have you even looked at the sample Mage ones they put out? they were very similar in damage (only difference between them being some are obvious aoe abilities and some are ST) and yeah we haven't seen the others yet but I would imagine that they will be similar damage numbers

  4. #224
    Mechagnome Asaliah's Avatar
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    He's right but the worst is the 10.0 concept which is an abomination and will ruin the game

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I don't really understand the argument about how the Alpha/Beta process always amounts to nothing and how Blizzard never listens. They very obviously do listen - and as a Beta tester I've actually had developers respond to my feedback, and I've even seen implementation of a handful of my own ideas here and there through the history of expansions. This is not to say Blizzard will always implement player feedback - sometimes player feedback is absolute dreck (even when it's not just leveraging for class-specific buffs), and sometimes Blizzard thinks they know better (which is generally true, given that are the actual people coding the game) but get it wrong for both foreseen and unforeseen reasons.

    Providing feedback is not a guarantee your or anyone else's feedback will be acted on - but providing no feedback ensures an existing mistake will likely go on to make it into the Live version of the game. It's unfortunate that Beta feedback about Azerite traits in BfA wasn't acted on, but that does happen - sometimes the developers gamble on something and lose, and sometimes they win. I remember back in the day there was a lot of negative player feedback about Transmogrification of all things - about how it would "devalue the aesthetic nature of gear and make the artists stop creating new and unique sets." Obviously that didn't come to pass, given that every expansion since has contained its own unique aesthetics in terms of armor and weapons.
    I personally gave "feedback" the last 3 betas (togheter with 80% of my raid)

    including: uncapped ap grind, azerite, islands, garrisons and legendary rng, now tell me has anything changed to a positive?

    And dont get me started on the class feedback i gave on warriors, dhs, rogues (the classes i play on progress with 99%-100% parses, all of them were butchered with downtimes and shit masterys in legion/bfa)
    Last edited by Feral Druid ist Op; 2020-03-06 at 07:49 PM.

  6. #226
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feral Druid ist Op View Post
    I personally gave "feedback" the last 3 betas (togheter with 80% of my raid)

    including: uncapped ap grind, azerite, islands, garrisons and legendary rng, now tell me has anything changed to a positive?

    And dont get me started on the class feedback i gave on warriors, dhs, rogues (the classes i play on progress playing with 99%-100% parses, all of them were butchered with downtimes and shit masterys in legion/bfa)
    Reiterating what I said above: "providing feedback is not a guarantee your or anyone else's feedback will be acted on." The best you can do if give the developers the benefit of your experience with what they've made, and provide feedback on moving forward or what is working and what is not. They're under no obligation to listen, and sometimes they don't - which can be detrimental or beneficial to the game, depending on how things go. In the BfA Beta I proposed a system that sounds eerily close to what became Essences in 8.2, basically saying that Azerite Traits were boring and that the Heart of Azeroth needed to confer a class-specific active skill/spell of some kind that would actually change up how a class/spec rotation works. I wasn't alone in issuing that feedback, either; and I'd like to think my feedback along with the others are what made Blizzard finally see that before BfA was over.

    Supposedly Shadowlands is also addressing the issues with skills and pruning as well, and the Alpha/Beta should show us more about how they're going to go about fixing those issues.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
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    We did but build his pedestal,
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  7. #227
    Dreadlord Sharby's Avatar
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    Responding to no one in particular I will say:


    It doesn't matter if its only a 1% diff or not, the conversation and any arguments should be centered around why an aesthetic choice has any sort of power diff and the principle of it.

    Covenants are most likely going to end up like racials, power should never be tied to aesthetic. And Blizzard choosing that road or complete homogenization is their fault and theirs alone, they could very easily make them covenants feel unique by deepening how much visuals they bring i.e spell effects/skins.

    Its dumb and we all know its coming.
    Honorary member of the Baine Fanclub, the only member really.

  8. #228
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharby View Post
    Responding to no one in particular I will say:


    It doesn't matter if its only a 1% diff or not, the conversation and any arguments should be centered around why an aesthetic choice has any sort of power diff and the principle of it.

    Covenants are most likely going to end up like racials, power should never be tied to aesthetic. And Blizzard choosing that road or complete homogenization is their fault and theirs alone, they could very easily make them covenants feel unique by deepening how much visuals they bring i.e spell effects/skins.

    Its dumb and we all know its coming.
    I don't disagree with this - and I feel like the Covenant choice would be a lot more static if it benefits it bestowed were entirely incomparable - either aesthetic in nature, or providing utility-type benefits that didn't translate to any statistical advantage in combat. It could even provide an active ability of some kind but if so I think it would be ideal if they were all baseline, with only aesthetic or visual differences (for example a %-based stat buff like an Augment Rune with only a unique visual flare that relates to the Covenant of choice).

    Basically put, you ideally shouldn't be able to choose the wrong Covenant - it should all come down to what part of the story you want to experience, what kind of cosmetic stuff (xmog gear, toys, pets) you want, etc. etc. Whether you side with Maldraxxus or the Night Fae, your performance in combat should be unchanged.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  9. #229
    Old God Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharby View Post
    Responding to no one in particular I will say:


    It doesn't matter if its only a 1% diff or not, the conversation and any arguments should be centered around why an aesthetic choice has any sort of power diff and the principle of it.

    Covenants are most likely going to end up like racials, power should never be tied to aesthetic. And Blizzard choosing that road or complete homogenization is their fault and theirs alone, they could very easily make them covenants feel unique by deepening how much visuals they bring i.e spell effects/skins.

    Its dumb and we all know its coming.
    And they saw with allied races how people like aesthetic and cool effects

    if each covenant gave you different skins for spells and new effects, transmogs, even the weapon enchant effect it would be enough imo

    Seems like Everyone will pick the covenant who will give the most dps anyway and change the covenant will be a pain in the ass, but we can't say much without alpha

  10. #230
    I'm retiring from WoW progression soon anyway, but yes it will and that's if they don't add yet another RNG on top of impossible balance (they can't balance anything). Good luck tho, I'm going full casual.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by Uko View Post
    That is why voicing our displeasure now is important. If we wait they won't have time to fix things like what happened with azerite armor and how it got almost no testing before it went live.
    "Voicing your displeasure" about a system that may or may not even exist and in a place were it won't get heard. AKA wasting your time.

    Azerite would have had to be reworked in the pre-alpha phase to make it in time. It took them till 8.2 just to get their band-aid up and running.

  12. #232
    OP is banned laugh... Guess the Shadowlands Jailer got him.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Rissler-Dark- View Post
    OP is banned laugh... Guess the Shadowlands Jailer got him.
    OP bitch all the time, has some hate boner for Hazzikostas, is really unpleasant, got banned very quickly and started account less than 2 months ago... who's gonna bet that it's our good old friend Scarecrowz? ;D

  14. #234
    I hope the benefits are purely cosmetic things. If the covenants offer different mechanical advantages, then that is just going to get real ugly.

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asaliah View Post
    He's right but the worst is the 10.0 concept which is an abomination and will ruin the game
    C'mon all us psychics and seers know perfectly well that, as Nostradamus himself predicted, 11.2 is the worst patch in WoW history.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Wraethion View Post
    I hope the benefits are purely cosmetic things. If the covenants offer different mechanical advantages, then that is just going to get real ugly.
    One of the core features is that each class (or spec?) is going to get a special skill that is thematic with the covenant you go with (fey/vampire/angelic/undead). What was shown for mages seemed like a rotational ability like a major essence.

    I think we'll just have to wait and hope they include the abilities in the Alpha/Beta. Famously, the Azerite system was dumped on the beta like 2 weeks before beta ended and most of the spec traits were not available.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Wraethion View Post
    I hope the benefits are purely cosmetic things. If the covenants offer different mechanical advantages, then that is just going to get real ugly.
    Only for 1% of top raiders which isnt something worth cuttering to.

  18. #238
    Old God Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uko View Post
    You do know a whole bunch of the abilities were announced and shown off so you can see for your self how balanced or unbalanced they are based on what was announced at blizzcon. What was shown to me shows there will be clear right choices and wrong choices for classes but feel free to believe just like the gcd changes and class pruning blizzard will do as good a job as those changes on balancing covenants.
    So which is it going to be? Do we demand Blizzard leave in everything they showed us at Blizzcon, or they change some things? You cant have it both ways.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Uko View Post
    That is why voicing our displeasure now is important. If we wait they won't have time to fix things like what happened with azerite armor and how it got almost no testing before it went live.
    What, EXACTLY, are you voicing your displeasure about, be specific please, so those of us that want legitimate reasons to torch Blizzard can join in.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  19. #239
    Warchief shade3891's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyndZero View Post
    I think they could suck if someone wants to play multiple roles, or rather switches role e.g from DPS to tank then they don't have the tank ability.
    Uhh the ability you gain depends on your spec.

  20. #240
    Herald of the Titans Lora's Avatar
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    covenants are going to be the best part of shadowlands.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uggorthaholy View Post
    Thanks but no thanks, Lora, for making me question everything in existence forever.

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