Covenants will ruin Shadowlands.

[WowIsDead64]

As a filthy casual those are good things. At least Blizzard forcing us to play the game is actually a good thing and not spending gold on the AH like D3 back in the day. I know there are four story lines for me to do across my alts instead of doing the same thing 12 times. But we'll still have to see how the game turns out, of course.

Well, I also don't think, that it's bad thing, because Class Halls were good reason for me to play, but only if content won't be so overtuned to force long term AP/Essence/cloak/corruption grinds, as it is in BFA. In BFA I just can't play alts, because they're so weak, that they're literally unplayable, and bringing them in par with main would mean many months of grind, that brings simple question - when will I actually PLAY this game?

[Thetruth1400]

You don't know shit.

If only there were 15 years of evidence showing they have never been able to balance things and there is always a best and worst.

[taishar68]

But don't give me that it's okay to shit on some DPS who does 2% less because of a covenant choice, when other DPSers in the group are doing 10% less because they have stubby little fingers and can't reach the keys, or shit key-binds, or keep standing in fire because they have slow reflexes, or don't have the right mod installed.

You watching me play, brother?

While I agree that it is quite likely that covenant choice won't be impactful in a major way, it does say something about Blizzard and how they feel about player agency; they know how people freak out over things like this, but chose to pigeonhole the covenant abilities in this fashion anyway. In a perfect world it would be a way to make people care less (by making the change so onerous as to making it more attractive to stick to your first choice), but there must always be a rager. Or many of them, as is the case.

- - - Updated - - -

As a filthy casual those are good things. At least Blizzard forcing us to play the game is actually a good thing and not spending gold on the AH like D3 back in the day. I know there are four story lines for me to do across my alts instead of doing the same thing 12 times. But we'll still have to see how the game turns out, of course.

Except if it follows the normal Blizzard script the majority of the script stays the same. That said, Legion alts, thanks to class hall stuff and invasions, can pretty much cherrypick quests they enjoy, so here's hoping that remains the case in SL.

[oplawlz]

Idk, sounds like the aldor/scryer system to me, and that was fine. You could switch if you really wanted to, but in the end it was really just a flavor thing.

[Swnem]

Given how they transitioned titanforging to corruption, i expect them to do their worse with it.

[Captain Marvel]

Zomg, I was planning of being all vampire for my undead shadowpriest.

But now, after seeing the BONE WINGS! Here we go necrolords!

Who cares what their ability is? BONE WINGS.

[october breeze]

The fucking expansion isn't even in Alpha yet. Are we supposed to collectively picket Blizzard headquarters until they change literally fucking everything before the expansion is even conceived???

Yep, it is not out yet. But with current info, the system looks bad on paper.

I really wish they change it soon and you come back to me and rob a "I TOLD YOU SO" into my face; but lets be honest, knowing Blizz for many years, how likely do you think that's gonna be?!?

[Elbob]

Yep, it is not out yet. But with current info, the system looks bad on paper.

I really wish they change it soon and you come back to me and rob a "I TOLD YOU SO" into my face; but lets be honest, knowing Blizz for many years, how likely do you think that's gonna be?!?

Player choice resulting in a minor power difference!? OH NO! The system must be terrible.... careful that one guy might do 1% more dmg cause you chose to get the xmog you liked

[MrLachyG]

This. I'll pick the one with the best aesthetic rewards/mounts/covenant hall.

0.001% of the playerbase should be worried about the DPS difference between covenants, and from the mage examples it seems like it isn't a matter of best or worst so much as a choice in situational specialization.



Kyrian is very obviously the strongest option here for ST (It will probably be nerfed some), but it is going to be completely destroyed by Necrolord and Night Fae in any AoE encounter or in mythic+. Venthyr is going to be extremely strong against melee in PvP and very specific bosses, but picking Kyrian gives you very strong ST burst. If Night Fae can be channeled while continuing to cast regular spells, that is nothing to scoff at.

this for me is the big worry...... shit getting nerfed. in the mage options there is are 2 aoe abilities and 2 st abilities. obviously one is going to be best (maybe they add a secondary stat buff for each of them so people choose different ones per spec) but if i choose Kyrian for my mage and then that gets nerfed in 9.1 which means Necrolord is now better then I am going to be pissed. whatever values they choose as damage need to stay set in stone they absolutely CANNOT be nerfed or buffed in any way (other than increasing with gear, maybe)

[froschhure]

Unless they've done a complete 180 on Covenant design since the reveal(lol nope). Then they will be the Azerite of Shadowlands.

We all know Blizzard is absolutely awful at balancing. Locking player power behind a choice that should be for cosmetic and story purposes is absolutely moronic.

There will be a BEST Covenant ability for your spec/class. It will be the best by a long margin. There will also be an absolute worst.

Then - nerfs and buffs will happen and the pendulum will swing again. But Blizzard has already said they're going to make it extremely hard to switch Covenants.

Why can't these morons open their eyes?

Because you have no proof. Speculation lead you to this.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry but class halls are the cherry on top of autism day care cake

[SynDethroc]

I, and many other people, only care about aesthetic when it comes to the Covenants. Unless you're a hardcore mythic raider, who cares if there's a "best" ability for your class?? I'm going with the vampires because vampires are cool. Simple as that.

[Raven]

Unless they've done a complete 180 on Covenant design since the reveal(lol nope). Then they will be the Azerite of Shadowlands.

We all know Blizzard is absolutely awful at balancing. Locking player power behind a choice that should be for cosmetic and story purposes is absolutely moronic.

There will be a BEST Covenant ability for your spec/class. It will be the best by a long margin. There will also be an absolute worst.

Then - nerfs and buffs will happen and the pendulum will swing again. But Blizzard has already said they're going to make it extremely hard to switch Covenants.

Why can't these morons open their eyes?

Actually no, they havent said it will be extremly hard, it will be extremly time consuming since you will start all over and need to unlock everything again, so wont be something you do after the raid becouse another covenants abilities is better for mythic + dungeons.

[Relapses]

I really wish they change it soon and you come back to me and rob a "I TOLD YOU SO" into my face; but lets be honest, knowing Blizz for many years, how likely do you think that's gonna be?!?

Things that definitely will not happen ever in a million years or the heat death of the universe for $1,000, Alex.

[october breeze]

Player choice resulting in a minor power difference!? OH NO! The system must be terrible.... careful that one guy might do 1% more dmg cause you chose to get the xmog you liked

First, it won't be only 1% most probably; otherwise, the "player choice" is in impactless and eventually meaningless.

Second, how about just adding the abilities in talent rows to use in all situations and changing them doesn't cost much? Why adding a inefficient system and make things worse for no reason?

[Sylv_]

You don't know shit.

surprise, surprise, neither do you.

[Sithalos]

What about me and Kyphael's contribution to this thread regarding cosmetics being important? Good? Bad? So and so? Rate it sir!

Solid 8.5/10

[styil]

Player choice resulting in a minor power difference!? OH NO! The system must be terrible.... careful that one guy might do 1% more dmg cause you chose to get the xmog you liked

If we have a look at Blizzard's recent history with new systems (Azerite, Essences and Corruption), they were all so imbalanced that they required at least 50% nerfs and, in some cases, up to 200% buffs to even get close to the realm of viability. Given this history, can you honestly say that this next system will only result in "minor power difference"?

[Aphrel]

i agree.

My last hope lies with covenants being something that can be easily switched (like our current talents etc). I have no issue at all grinding up 4 factions rep if it means i can fool around with diffrent abilities and buffs on diffrent encounters.

[Elbob]

If we have a look at Blizzard's recent history with new systems (Azerite, Essences and Corruption), they were all so imbalanced that they required at least 50% nerfs and, in some cases, up to 200% buffs to even get close to the realm of viability. Given this history, can you honestly say that this next system will only result in "minor power difference"?

there are few cases where azerite on a particular classes are stand out more dps (FG on DH for example), but for the most part you don't see a single trait on a single piece of gear being more then 1% of total dps ahead of its competition. Some of the azerite issues include there being sooo many per class/spec and being able to stack them as well.

All essences are available to everyone so there really isnt a problem there. And i agree corruption numbers were horrifically balanced which is one of my issues with blizzard that they tend to not respond to balance concerns on ptr cycles and instead wait to see them on live, BUT my response was to some one calling the SYSTEM bad which is different than tuning. Now if you truly think blizzard will never tune things properly you should be advocating for no new systems ever (classic is there for you).
This thread is about a system where player choice is semi permanent and has an affect on player power. As a system this is fine if the plan for the variable in power is kept low and actually allows choice. The presented argument is the system is bad because blizzard won't tune it right but the evidence for such is not great because people focus on the flaws and neglect a ton of good balancing that happens every patch.

edit:
Its pretty clear from blizzards presentation that these new abilities are not meant to be core damage components of your class that top the meters. These are minor cds that support the dmg you are doing unlike corruption numbers which im sure people are concerned from. I don't think we are going to see dps' covenant abilities being 30% of total dmg done like Infinite stars or pre nerf echoing void. Seeing the mage abilities I have some concerns about % vlaues scaling too hard but those are more likely early spitball ideas more than final values. I bet we see very different numbers by time its out of alpha on anything like that.

[Advent]

If we have a look at Blizzard's recent history with new systems (Azerite, Essences and Corruption), they were all so imbalanced that they required at least 50% nerfs and, in some cases, up to 200% buffs to even get close to the realm of viability. Given this history, can you honestly say that this next system will only result in "minor power difference"?

I would say that since it really only affects the smallest portion of the game's players, then they can just deal with it.