Are the infinite power grind here to stay?

[Rogue Karl]

One could hope not, its a hopeless mechanic but ALOT of games are adding these mechanics...quality is a second thought, longevity is the name of the of the industry these days...how long they can keep you playing and coming back and for some this mechanic is like candy or crack,whatever makes them stronger then the other guy however small, they just can't put it down...which inevitable hurts us all, and the games we love, or rather want to love

Its painful, and ultimately unnecessary, especially in a game like World of Warcraft (with so much layered power gains and artificial power gains) or any MMO for that matter

Isn't most of that industry doing poorly though? ( barring moblie games and free to play)
I admit I'm not up on trends but I thought people who put money down on the game hated things like that ala anthem.

[Th3Scourge]

There is no passive damage in wow in the first place. None of the corruption will proc if you stop hitting the boss. The same with trinkets.
You have to hit buttons in order to keep corruptions to deal damage. not to mention things like passive stat increases are not doing any damage on its own.

Of course there is, my TD procs come at no additional physical exertion on my part. I am in no way required to do anything differently or send the game any additional inputs in order for a proc-based passive damage ability to increase by damage by 15%

It's fun deleting packs, but it's stupid, and is getting me killed in keys with bursting right now ><

[kaminaris]

Of course there is, my TD procs come at no additional physical exertion on my part. I am in no way required to do anything differently or send the game any additional inputs in order for a proc-based passive damage ability to increase by damage by 15%

It's fun deleting packs, but it's stupid, and is getting me killed in keys with bursting right now ><

That is not passive. Passive would mean it would proc automatically without any of your input.

[Rogue Karl]

That is not passive. Passive would mean it would proc automatically without any of your input.

So its passive then since it procs automatically without him doing any additional inputs?

[kaminaris]

So its passive then since it procs automatically without him doing any additional inputs?

It doesn't proc without him doing additional inputs.

[Aliven]

It doesn't proc without him doing additional inputs.

Sematics.

Its passive effect that procs from normal activity, activity that is done regardless if the passive is even a thing. It just is, like critical chance. Boom, dice rolled, extra dmg proc.

[Ehrenpanzer]

no, they specificly said that wont be a thing in shadowlands, so nah its not here to stay.

also titanforging and corruption are not going to be in shadowlands, so again no.

1. Except that it is.. but with a weekly cap so its totally different guys!

2. Source please? Cant find a single Blizz employee saying anything anywhere near that

[VinceVega]

It just seems to be getting worse and worse as time goes on and with blizzard weirdly admitting passively that they are not good for the competitive side of the game ( them disabling them in the pvp tournament speaks volumes)

I have to ask... is this just the new norm? Is wow doomed to have wacky random items obtained from excessive grinding from now on?

It is a weird problem. People don't like it because there is no graspable end.

On the other hand people quit the game because they have nothing to do when this is not in.

I get that people don't like it. But you have to look at this objectively. Annoying? Yes. Necessary? Probably. In some capacity.

So they have this. You have something to do so you don't quit and they have something to keep people playing.
MMORPGS are... not that popular anymore. Games that keep players like Fortnite and co. all have infinite grinds.

The other possibility would be lootboxes.... i take the infinite grind over this anyday.
And no classic did not prove otherwise. We don't know the longevity of it. It hasn't even been a year.

Also i don't think it is getting worse. Rathe rthe opposite. The AP grind wasn't close as bad as it was in Legion. Essences. Yes they were horrible but even here they are budging. Late. But they are.

[Rogue Karl]

It doesn't proc without him doing additional inputs.

I mean he has to click right once to start up attacks...

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It is a weird problem. People don't like it because there is no graspable end.

On the other hand people quit the game because they have nothing to do when this is not in.

I get that people don't like it. But you have to look at this objectively. Annoying? Yes. Necessary? Probably. In some capacity.

So they have this. You have something to do so you don't quit and they have something to keep people playing.
MMORPGS are... not that popular anymore. Games that keep players like Fortnite and co. all have infinite grinds.

The other possibility would be lootboxes.... i take the infinite grind over this anyday.
And no classic did not prove otherwise. We don't know the longevity of it. It hasn't even been a year.

Also i don't think it is getting worse. Rathe rthe opposite. The AP grind wasn't close as bad as it was in Legion. Essences. Yes they were horrible but even here they are budging. Late. But they are.

There are maybe 10,000 people in this game that clear pve... I don't get the argument that people will quit if there is nothing to do. They always had things to do.

I would argue that destroying mid tier progression has costed them more subs then appealing to gambling addicts and the perpetually helpless who claim they can't improve.

I think mmos are in decline for the same reason horror games were in decline. Some random been counter just decided one day to stop making them the way they used to be and it became a self fulfilling prophecy.

I think we dont see a resurgence like we did with horror due to the barrier of entry for mmos to develop and how entrenched communities won't wander to new entries.

Wow still does a lot right but I would argue they used to do more.

[VinceVega]

I mean he has to click right once to start up attacks...

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There are maybe 10,000 people in this game that clear pve... I don't get the argument that people will quit if there is nothing to do. They always had things to do.

I would argue that destroying mid tier progression has costed them more subs then appealing to gambling addicts and the perpetually helpless who claim they can't improve.

I think mmos are in decline for the same reason horror games were in decline. Some random been counter just decided one day to stop making them the way they used to be and it became a self fulfilling prophecy.

I think we dont see a resurgence like we did with horror due to the barrier of entry for mmos to develop and how entrenched communities won't wander to new entries.

Wow still does a lot right but I would argue they used to do more.

People will quit if there is nothing to do. That is how games work. Transmog, achievement, mount, toy and pet farming is nice but only complementary to real gameplay like Raid/PvP/Mythic+.

Everyone has an end to their gameplay. Mine is somewhere in the middle of Mythic. There is a wall where we never get over. Maybe with 5 years.
Like PvP. I will NEVER have Elite gear, simply because i do not have the time or talent to ever get that.

Most poeple are somewhere in the middle and i would argue the middle is clearing heroic. We have something to play to. If mythic would not be there... god the game would be boring. Nearly everyone clears Heroic at some point. Not elite. Everyday poeple. 1/4 of the players would have nothing to do after 2 weeks. Or give it 4 weeks.

I don't see AP "grind" as bad. It is just something you get while playing, nerfing the game for you along the way. See the Cloak upgrades after 15. In the end you can were so much corruption it will be laughable.

[FelPlague]

1. Except that it is.. but with a weekly cap so its totally different guys!

2. Source please? Cant find a single Blizz employee saying anything anywhere near that

1. i guess conquest, and valor, and others were just infinite grinds then.
2. literally their interivews
https://youtu.be/lx9gnzFxH5Q
good vid on it.

[Th3Scourge]

It doesn't proc without him doing additional inputs.

It does. my rotation is in no way, shape or form impacted. Therefore, the damage increase is passive in nature.

[kaminaris]

It does. my rotation is in no way, shape or form impacted. Therefore, the damage increase is passive in nature.

You got it the other way around, your rotation impacts procs of corruption so it is not a passive damage at all.

[Rogue Karl]

People will quit if there is nothing to do. That is how games work. Transmog, achievement, mount, toy and pet farming is nice but only complementary to real gameplay like Raid/PvP/Mythic+.

Everyone has an end to their gameplay. Mine is somewhere in the middle of Mythic. There is a wall where we never get over. Maybe with 5 years.
Like PvP. I will NEVER have Elite gear, simply because i do not have the time or talent to ever get that.

Most poeple are somewhere in the middle and i would argue the middle is clearing heroic. We have something to play to. If mythic would not be there... god the game would be boring. Nearly everyone clears Heroic at some point. Not elite. Everyday poeple. 1/4 of the players would have nothing to do after 2 weeks. Or give it 4 weeks.

I don't see AP "grind" as bad. It is just something you get while playing, nerfing the game for you along the way. See the Cloak upgrades after 15. In the end you can were so much corruption it will be laughable.

I guess that is the rub. Should the game be designed around those trying to beat it or should it be designed around those that want power progression.

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You got it the other way around, your rotation impacts procs of corruption so it is not a passive damage at all.

In what way? You can proc most with auto attacks...

Yes you will proc more using abilities but that isnt required.

[kaminaris]

In what way? You can proc most with auto attacks...

Yes you will proc more using abilities but that isnt required.

Well since you confirmed it. Your rotation affects procrates of corruptions.
And casters don't have such things like auto attacks unless they stand close to boss and swing their staff.

[kamuimac]

what they did to essences is best proof how stupid grinds and how many pointless grinds and timegates there will be in shadowlands

their statement about caring for alts during blizzcon were nothing but lies.

[kaminaris]

what they did to essences is best proof how stupid grinds and how many pointless grinds and timegates there will be in shadowlands

their statement about caring for alts during blizzcon were nothing but lies.

They shouldn't care about alts at all. You want to have power comparable to main? Do the same thing your main has gone thru.

[Rogue Karl]

Well since you confirmed it. Your rotation affects procrates of corruptions.
And casters don't have such things like auto attacks unless they stand close to boss and swing their staff.

What depth and compelling game play...

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They shouldn't care about alts at all. You want to have power comparable to main? Do the same thing your main has gone thru.

I think this is the rubs. You can kill the last boss on mythic with both characters walks side by side in the same gear and there will be a drastic difference in performance based on who no lifed it more.

People are tired of terrible content being propped up with grinds. It's time we return to the progression ladder don't you think?

[Th3Scourge]

You got it the other way around, your rotation impacts procs of corruption so it is not a passive damage at all.

I don't know what point you think you are trying to argue but I'm still hitting the same buttons as I was in 8.2, only difference is that a passive proc ability is now making up 7-15% of my damage out of nowhere. It's not like I have a conditions in my damage for the corruption to proc outside of what I have always been doing.

I know you're trying to be all clever n shit by say "aH bUt YoU hAvE tO pReSs Da BuTtOnZ tO dO dA cOrRuPtIoNz" but you're really not understanding the concept of how passive damage works in a game like wow.

[aceperson]

no, they specificly said that wont be a thing in shadowlands, so nah its not here to stay.

also titanforging and corruption are not going to be in shadowlands, so again no.

i would love to see evidence of them saying that. as far as i can tell there is still an infinite power grind with anima power but it's just capped weekly.