Are the infinite power grind here to stay?

[TheLucky1]

So alcohol is amazing because people drink it despise it ruined their life and they have no desire to drink it?

You can't just always pull out the BS i work 9 to 5 argument (like most of us do if you aren't delusional ) and say according to that i can't play under the week so i should never miss anything.

It's really not like you need to play 3 or more hours every day just to be able to participate in most content.. i don't think that even CE raiders need to do that.

[Trend]

So alcohol is amazing because people drink it despise it ruined their life and they have no desire to drink it?

Honest question here ... what the fuck are you rambling about?

[Trend]

It is, because if you don't have much time, you end up spending way longer on catch up than on playing the actual game. There's only one part of wow that's even remotely interesting - the current raid and m+. All the catch up does is put a time gate in front of your ability to actually play.

I unsubscribed for 18 months and I have to wade through an unbelievable pile of shit to get to the good stuff. I feel like Andy Dufresne escaping Shawshank.

What is your perception of how long it would take you (time /played) to get to the point you could raid at the level you wanted to raid or run the keys you wanted to run? What level of raiding are you talking about? What level of keys are you talking about?

My guildmate boosted a priest and 2 calendar days (and about 8 hours /played) later we almost timed a 15 with him healing. Given that people tend to want to complain and they make shit up to justify their complaining ... and given that what you are saying is demonstratively false, my perception is that you have no intention of being honest. Unless you're going to quit immediately after running your first key, you're not going to spend as much time catching up as you will take playing the endgame. It won't even be close. To claim otherwise is absurd.

[Trend]

It's gonna take a month or so to get essences. It's going to take longer to get cloak caught up.

I also don't have guildies carrying me through things so it takes waaay longer to do all the quests than it would working with guilds. I did 6 islands yesterday for the weekly, it was some of the worst gameplay I have seen in a game ever. When I was done I logged off in disgust.

So you can't answer very specific and straight-forward questions. Exactly as expected. Good luck doing whatever you do that is not WoW!

[Trend]

I don't know how long... I haven't done it. All I know is I'm stuck in bullshit for a while... I told you what I do know but I don't sit there and research the whole game before I play it... hard to see other people's perspectives, huh?

So you don't know what level you want to raid at ... maybe LFG maybe cutting edge Mythic. And keys, maybe you're looking to do +2 and maybe +20. You know enough to know you want to do these things, but you have no idea what level. And you know it is going to take longer to get prepared than you will spend playing endgame, but you can't even give a clue of what your perception is of how much time /played that actually is.

I have no problem empathizing with people who aren't just bullshitting and evading.

Regardless, you don't play WoW and I don't care. Peace to you and have fun not playing WoW.

[TheLucky1]

Where did I say that? To answer your question... heroic.




I'd like to do a +15.

Anyway, you keep ending every post by saying goodbye and that I'm not worth it... then you respond. Lol.

My point remains, there's too much crap to do before the excellent dungeon and raid content.

It is a perception problem though.
you don't need the neck instantly at 80 to raid/m+, you don't need rank 3 essences for everything for that, rank 2 is fine, your cape doesn't need to be lvl 15 or whatever already etc.

If everyone could instantly catch up from scratch in a week or two and have everything above mentioned that would piss people off that played continuosly.

[kaminaris]

It is a perception problem though.
you don't need the neck instantly at 80 to raid/m+, you don't need rank 3 essences for everything for that, rank 2 is fine, your cape doesn't need to be lvl 15 or whatever already etc.

If everyone could instantly catch up from scratch in a week or two and have everything above mentioned that would piss people off that played continuosly.

He doesn't need any essence at all. Or absolutely completely random ones he got by accident.

[Zyky]

Looks like your trying to justify "being forced" to grind your neck.

Sorry that you apparently have zero idea how OCD works, even after it was explained. I'm not going to repeat myself because you want to take a random comment in the middle of a conversation, so go back and read and don't reply to me again, thanks.

[Zentail]

I have to ask... is this just the new norm? Is wow doomed to have wacky random items obtained from excessive grinding from now on?

Want a Blizzard-level response?

Officially: No.
Also Officially: Yes.

[kaminaris]

It's not ocd. People have a natural desire to get better at things. The way wow is set up right now, the best way to get better at things is often doing random stupid easy content. The alternative is to do harder, more interesting content for worse rewards. It's a shitty choice. No one wants to be the guy who is underperforming.

In legion I held out for a long ass time. I did mythic+ because I liked it and they said, do what you like, legendaries will come. I was behind on ap, and I had to watch as my guildies who did world quests (but didn't play any more time than I did) all had 2-3X as many legendaries as I did, and their ap was much higher too.

Eventually you end up so far behind that you give in and start grinding the bullshit and suddenly your gear starts improving much more quickly. Just a bizarre situation that's very frustrating.

It is much much easier now than it was in legion. With both AP and essences. They are really not hard not tedious to get as other people claim it to be. And reaching your goals can be done in 2 weeks or even faster if you grind M+ (because ultimately gear is what makes you strong).

[Rogue Karl]

So you don't know what level you want to raid at ... maybe LFG maybe cutting edge Mythic. And keys, maybe you're looking to do +2 and maybe +20. You know enough to know you want to do these things, but you have no idea what level. And you know it is going to take longer to get prepared than you will spend playing endgame, but you can't even give a clue of what your perception is of how much time /played that actually is.

I have no problem empathizing with people who aren't just bullshitting and evading.

Regardless, you don't play WoW and I don't care. Peace to you and have fun not playing WoW.

I don't see why slowly feeling out difficulties rather then just mindlessly grinding out challengless content is the wrong way to go about it...?

How is his experience made better with the grinds?

- - - Updated - - -

It is much much easier now than it was in legion. With both AP and essences. They are really not hard not tedious to get as other people claim it to be. And reaching your goals can be done in 2 weeks or even faster if you grind M+ (because ultimately gear is what makes you strong).

Depends on class. Some require the time locked ones that take 3-4 weeks to get depending on your skill. Hopefully the change in Tuesday helps with that.

[TheLucky1]

That's the part I don't understand.

If you play continuously, you're always going to be on the cutting edge content and the game is generally going to be better. Why is it that you feel that people who join later have to pay a penance for being unsubbed? What harm does it do to you if there's catch up for essences for people who just resubbed? I didn't play in 8.2, I don't get the payoff you got for doing the essence grind. But I still have to do it in 8.3.

To me it's mind boggling that people think they should design a game that's purposefully not fun for a period of time when you start playing it, as like a punishment or something. I get why blizz does it - they want the profits - but I don't understand why people who play the game want it.

It's not about punishment, it's about current players not getting apathetic with the giant catch up that is already there.
Azerite power is a good example, you need 30% less every week so basically your ap grinds worth halves every 2 weeks, for me that was a big reason to not grind much ap at all.

Same goes albeit not as much for corruption (patched to get easier via visions) essences (patched to get easier) and the legendary cape.
The reason for the massive catch up systems in place is pretty much the fact that the grinds are endless (no end to your neck and cape really) and that makes some players like me apathetic to play at all ala: why should i? my efforts diminish by half every 2 weeks.

Let's all just hope there isn't any endless grind in SL.

[Mardux]

I don't see why slowly feeling out difficulties rather then just mindlessly grinding out challengless content is the wrong way to go about it...?

How is his experience made better with the grinds?

- - - Updated - - -



Depends on class. Some require the time locked ones that take 3-4 weeks to get depending on your skill. Hopefully the change in Tuesday helps with that.

Right. And those aren't necessary.

[Thes]

I just tried retail after a long ass break and I don't even know where to begin gearing a new char...

If I have to do all the war effort quests for a new character I don't think I'll even continue playing retail lmao.

[Kralljin]

but I don't understand why people who play the game want it.

I didn't play Classic for ~2 months and BWL came out in the meantime, logged in, my gear was still relatively decent and equivalent rewards were not awarded by rather trivial content.
On top of that, i didn't have to go through the same content that now suddenly award superior loot.


In regards to essences however...i feel a big issue is that they're tied to active abilities and what i call "power customization".
In previous expansions, you could (relatively) easily customize the power of your character for a given situation, change talents, glyphs, etc.. you get the idea.
All those "customization" options were unlocked right off the bat once you were max level (or easily obtainable, such as glyphs).

Now, the customization is locked behind grinds, so in order to have every option, you need to grind, just to be "on par" with anyone else.
In Wotlk / Cata / MoP, you could just buy the glyphs off the auction house and were set, you didn't have to grind Faction X or Y in order to unlock a certain glyph on every character.

On top of that, grinding for a R3 Essence just to use the minor power to gain additional stats or some random damage proc, isn't exciting as well.

The same can also be said about Azerite and Corruption, you need luck or the willingness to engage in a given daily / weekly again and again in order to unlock additional customization options for your power.

I think there is some value in attempting to preserve the accomplishment of players and not just trivialise that with each patch, but i'm not sure if (rental) power systems that tie in with character customization are the right path here.

[kamuimac]

I didn't play Classic for ~2 months and BWL came out in the meantime, logged in, my gear was still relatively decent and equivalent rewards were not awarded by rather trivial content.
On top of that, i didn't have to go through the same content that now suddenly award superior loot.


In regards to essences however...i feel a big issue is that they're tied to active abilities and what i call "power customization".
In previous expansions, you could (relatively) easily customize the power of your character for a given situation, change talents, glyphs, etc.. you get the idea.
All those "customization" options were unlocked right off the bat once you were max level (or easily obtainable, such as glyphs).

Now, the customization is locked behind grinds, so in order to have every option, you need to grind, just to be "on par" with anyone else.
In Wotlk / Cata / MoP, you could just buy the glyphs off the auction house and were set, you didn't have to grind Faction X or Y in order to unlock a certain glyph on every character.

On top of that, grinding for a R3 Essence just to use the minor power to gain additional stats or some random damage proc, isn't exciting as well.

The same can also be said about Azerite and Corruption, you need luck or the willingness to engage in a given daily / weekly again and again in order to unlock additional customization options for your power.

I think there is some value in attempting to preserve the accomplishment of players and not just trivialise that with each patch, but i'm not sure if (rental) power systems that tie in with character customization are the right path here.

you have forums playerbase to blame for

only them not blizzard

its forums who have been complaining for over 10 years how they lack "content"

instead specify that by content they mean more dungeons and more raids more often.

here you go - you got content to do.

just not stuff people wanted

[Kralljin]

you have forums playerbase to blame for

No, that is stupid.

Blizzard is the one at the wheel, not the players.
Leaving aside that Blizzard isn't exactly a company that is recognized for putting a lot of value on player feedback.

That aside, even reasonable player demands can be screwed up if the execution is just botched.

instead specify that by content they mean more dungeons and more raids more often.

Mixing a faustian twist into your game design is generally a terrible idea, for obvious reasons.

This forum noise is nothing but sound and fury at the end of the day, what matters is what goes into the game.
What goes on in the forum is something that needs to be decided case by case, rather than just "people are complaining about something, they must be correct!", one needs to look at whether these complaints are justified (because sometimes, they are, unlike what some contrarians attempt to tell people).

[Aliven]

No, that is stupid.

Blizzard is the one at the wheel, not the players.
Leaving aside that Blizzard isn't exactly a company that is recognized for putting a lot of value on player feedback.

That aside, even reasonable player demands can be screwed up if the execution is just botched.


Mixing a faustian twist into your game design is generally a terrible idea, for obvious reasons.

This forum noise is nothing but sound and fury at the end of the day, what matters is what goes into the game.
What goes on in the forum is something that needs to be decided case by case, rather than just "people are complaining about something, they must be correct!", one needs to look at whether these complaints are justified (because sometimes, they are, unlike what some contrarians attempt to tell people).

Its more valuable for devs to hear WHY players dont like x feature. Because the problem may not even be the feature but something unrelated.

[Rogue Karl]

Its more valuable for devs to hear WHY players dont like x feature. Because the problem may not even be the feature but something unrelated.

I'm not really sure it is to be honest. It should be but look at blizzard's outright refusal to let scenarios die. They failed in every iteration for being dull and repetitive with the exception of the mage tower the one they flat out refuse to remake.

Blizzard understands what players dislike I just think they don't care at this point.

[Nullp0inter]

Blizzard needs to increase or keep MAUs. Infinite grinds is one of the ways to do that. What more is there to say?