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  1. #101
    Elemental Lord
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    The biggest problem that worries me is that they are bringing back the ability to trade powerful items, but due to the bad press from D3 they are not bringing back the RMAH.

    This is an obvious major mistake as for a healthily game the existence of the former mandates the existence of the the latter, without it the economy will be dictated by third party item trading sites (most likely Chinese) which players will have no choice but to use if they don't want to be at a disadvantage.

  2. #102
    I think given blizzards recent history it would be a mistake to pre-order it or buy it at launch. If they package it with some decent wow content i would consider it like they did last time but i wont be buying it alone at launch.

  3. #103
    As long as I can re-spec if I mess up my build some how I will be happy with D4, keeping that closer to D3 will be nice.
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  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    The biggest problem that worries me is that they are bringing back the ability to trade powerful items, but due to the bad press from D3 they are not bringing back the RMAH.

    This is an obvious major mistake as for a healthily game the existence of the former mandates the existence of the the latter, without it the economy will be dictated by third party item trading sites (most likely Chinese) which players will have no choice but to use if they don't want to be at a disadvantage.
    I'm a fan of the AH or the RMAH really too. But the game doesn't need it and controlling a secondary currency suppresses 3rd party sites. The danger is a China WoW situation where the 3rd parties are an ugly stain, but we have that regardless of Blizz options.

    What Blizz will hopefully do is provide an alternative to 3rd party sites for communication. D2 was easy because you hoped on Bnet and looked for a game titled "shako for Bruzia" and went from there. D4 will need to have that option, outside of spamming some kind of a chat.

  5. #105
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    Simple solution: Don't preorder, ANYTHING EVER.

    And wait for reviews... So what if you don't get to play it on launch day... What's 1-3 more days to wait and see if it's a mess? It could save you money, and you'll be less disappointed because you didn't pay for a pile of crap.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    The biggest problem that worries me is that they are bringing back the ability to trade powerful items, but due to the bad press from D3 they are not bringing back the RMAH.

    This is an obvious major mistake as for a healthily game the existence of the former mandates the existence of the the latter, without it the economy will be dictated by third party item trading sites (most likely Chinese) which players will have no choice but to use if they don't want to be at a disadvantage.
    They explicitly said that item trades will have a "tier system".
    - standard items/currency can be traded at will
    - other items can be traded a limited amount of times
    - the strongest item in game cannot simply be traded

    So, you're not going to resort to third party sites. You can do that, but you're just skipping the mid-farming and then you'll have to play anyway.
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Maruka View Post
    I think given blizzards recent history it would be a mistake to pre-order it or buy it at launch. If they package it with some decent wow content i would consider it like they did last time but i wont be buying it alone at launch.
    If they offer cross game items I like I'll preorder. I haven't been disappointed in a Blizzard product so far and ARPGs are my thing.

  8. #108
    Scarab Lord
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    Both PoE and Diablo 2 functioned fairly well (build wise) by the time you hit like level 80. There's like no sense of real 'grinding' until you start to reach the upper levels, and honestly, if you just make tanky builds in PoE you're going to consistently level, and reaching 90 and above isn't actually that difficult.

    Personally don't want Diablo 4 to be anything like Diablo 3, but I also don't want it to be anything like PoE (at least how PoE functions right now). PoE has insane depth to the game and truly had a massive amount of ways you can play the game, but PoE isn't without it's problems.

    One of the biggest issues with PoE at the moment is the game keeps adding systems upon systems, making it incredibly difficult to get into (or back into) if you've taken a break or have never played it before. It's like getting into a MOBA without any prior knowledge, which for most people will cause them to quit because the effort is far too much to overcome. Who wants to play a couple hundred games of DoTA 2 before they finally reach a point where they aren't a useless carry every single game? The other by product of having leagues on top of one another is that certain ones basically obsolete older ones (because of power creep) and the additional items that are added to the game. Each and every league they add literally means you're going to be sorting through more currency, fragments or league specific items instead of actually playing the game (this is something they're looking at fixing, by allowing you to auto dump certain currencies into your tabs). Keep in mind however, that systems upon systems is also a strength. D3 at it's core has a pretty shallow seasonal quirk that goes away every season, and rarely do they incorporate anything new into the base game every 3-4 months. It remains static, which is sort of boring.

    Popular to what some people might say, the auction house in D3 was actually quite good and PoE could certainly use an AH (at the very least for currency). The issue with D3 was that the launch state of the game was pretty bad once people figured it out. Uniques were bad, sets were bad and only properly rolled rares were actually good. With literally no crafting systems in the game, getting good items was insanely difficult and basically REQUIRED the AH to find decent gear. If the game had launched with a decent crafting systems or ways to modify items, then the AH would've worked for general gameplay.

    I still prefer an ARPG with trading as opposed to one without. There's a proper balance to be had. You absolutely should be able to play the game without trading. Having a functional build without reaching max level or having the best possible items is exactly how these games should be balanced. Your characters in PoE or D2 aren't going to be able to speed clear certain areas of the game without getting higher levels, crafting great gear or trading for gear that significantly boosts your character, but you should be able to slowly progress through things at a much slower rate just by being smart with your builds and building your character correctly. All that said, growth is also important and the process of gearing in D3 (while fun at the start), becomes incredibly shallow. D3 devolves into grinding XP for marginal stat increases through both gems and paragon levels, while hoping that the very same items you already have equipped drop again with just higher stats.

  9. #109
    Void Lord Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    If you feel doubtful(I doubt it will be bad at all but I digress) then wait it out, you won't miss much not preordering D4.
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  10. #110
    Banned Strawberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schattenlied View Post
    Simple solution: Don't preorder, ANYTHING EVER.
    The thing is, Diablo is the only game I preorder and not just that but physical Collector's Edition.
    I'm pretty sure Diablo 4 won't suck, and even if Blizzard goes against my concern and releases a game I'm not happy about, I'm sure that I will spend countless hours playing it.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    The biggest problem that worries me is that they are bringing back the ability to trade powerful items, but due to the bad press from D3 they are not bringing back the RMAH.

    This is an obvious major mistake as for a healthily game the existence of the former mandates the existence of the the latter, without it the economy will be dictated by third party item trading sites (most likely Chinese) which players will have no choice but to use if they don't want to be at a disadvantage.
    They are not. The powerful items, have to be found. Less powerful can be traded once. Junk has nor restrictions.

  12. #112
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    They are not. The powerful items, have to be found.
    Yes they are, they have confirmed it. It's only the most powerful items that cannot be traded. To use current D3 as an example, you won't be able to buy/sell Primal Ancients, but you will be able to buy/sell BIS ancients that will give a massive competitive boost at the start of a season.

  13. #113

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Yes they are, they have confirmed it. It's only the most powerful items that cannot be traded. To use current D3 as an example, you won't be able to buy/sell Primal Ancients, but you will be able to buy/sell BIS ancients that will give a massive competitive boost at the start of a season.
    Who is to say legendaries and set items are not in that classification?

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    Who is to say legendaries and set items are not in that classification?
    They said it during Blizzcon. Also, Set and Legendaries are not going to be the most powerful items like it is in D3.

    IIRC at high level endgame you can drop consumable items that contain a random legendary effect, and you can apply it to rare items, effectively adding a legedary suffix to it. So your BiS will be composed by a specific list of effects that enable the build itself and all yellow gear with the right stats. This kind of stuff can only be dropped in dungeons and not be traded.
    No one wants to choose. Everyone wants everything.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    They said it during Blizzcon. Also, Set and Legendaries are not going to be the most powerful items like it is in D3.

    IIRC at high level endgame you can drop consumable items that contain a random legendary effect, and you can apply it to rare items, effectively adding a legedary suffix to it. So your BiS will be composed by a specific list of effects that enable the build itself and all yellow gear with the right stats. This kind of stuff can only be dropped in dungeons and not be traded.
    No they have nit tonthis point specified what tier of items fall under each category. It is quite possible that only mythic items are non tradeable. But I feel sets and legendaries and above will be non tradeable. Yellows tradeable once. But we will still have to see.

    Currently they have, ir have discussed the legendary consumable. I have high doubts it will make it going forward considering the sheer amount if negativity I have seen all around it considering it is considered just a bandaid on the larger itemization issue. Considering it was not in at Blizzcon then added, and I've seen more backlash about that than the initial reveal if itemization, I'll bet it's not in the game.

    But they did not say what falls under what classification yet.

  17. #117
    why is reaching max level even important? you can make it not a requirement for the endgame, silly

    in PoE you can do anything right after finishing act 10 regardless of your level

  18. #118
    And Im sure I will enjoy Diablo 4 alot even if it wont be a succes like D2 was. I hate current Diablo 3 rift systems and I dont play it anymore at all but I stilll dont regret buying it because I had hundreds hours of fun with the game even before RoS and when RMAH was a thing.

    For me it was well spent money because I got alot of entertainment and I dont expect new games to have such longevity like D2.

    And Im pretty sure it wont compete with PoE either because after so many years of updates and adding mechanics from leagues there wont be ANY new game that could compete with PoE depth. But most people can play more than 1 game and sometimes everyone need a break from a game that is played by hours day after day even if its still good.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Craaazyyy View Post
    why is reaching max level even important? you can make it not a requirement for the endgame, silly

    in PoE you can do anything right after finishing act 10 regardless of your level
    But in PoE you're also forced to go through all the Acts every single time, which is basically a similar gating concept to "reach level X" just in a different guise. Either way you're in a position where a new character has to go through some kind of forced preparatory phase before they can actually start engaging in the game's "real" content, i.e. endgame.

    The question is, is that kind of gating really necessary or even all that good. In D3, for example, I don't think you'd lose anything really relevant if your new season characters just started at 70. For veteran players that's 2-4 hours at most of lost time, much of which is spent complaining about not getting good skills for a while, or raging at the game's RNG when that one bounty you want to grind doesn't show up (or whatever). And that's the first character, on subsequent alts with Gem of Ease you get to 70 in like 30 minutes solo (and less with help from others). That's not content. That's just tedium.

    Now, don't misconstrue this to mean "story is irrelevant". I don't think that. I think that story should be told differently, and that having a campaign mode that is either eminently divorced from the rest of the game (like in D3) or a vehicle for endgame gating (like in PoE) is a flawed concept from the start. We'll have to see what D4 does with this, but at least conceptually I don't see a real reason why progression shouldn't be moderated by the mechanics we already have in place at endgame anyway, rather than an artificial gating mechanism on top of that.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post

    Now, don't misconstrue this to mean "story is irrelevant". I don't think that. I think that story should be told differently, and that having a campaign mode that is either eminently divorced from the rest of the game (like in D3) or a vehicle for endgame gating (like in PoE) is a flawed concept from the start. We'll have to see what D4 does with this, but at least conceptually I don't see a real reason why progression shouldn't be moderated by the mechanics we already have in place at endgame anyway, rather than an artificial gating mechanism on top of that.
    well they are.. in PoE you are able to interact with league mechanics from the start. Or do you want to fight endgame bosses at lvl 1?

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