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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    It would be best not to have trading in diablo, if you want trading play PoE that game you really need to trade to get things, diablo doesnt need it, what we need is lots of different things to do and gear that doesnt scale as much as it does now and bosses at max difficulty should not be as easy.

    Diablo just needs more things to do at endgame and adding trading would just make it too essential for the game just like PoE.
    But if there will be no trading at all then the drop chance for items must be very high and this kills whole purpose of ARPGs for me when gear just rain from the sky like in Diablo 3. Trading can balance this so you can still get a drop but if you are unlucky you can always buy some piece.

  2. #122
    I'm in the same boat. I think it looks great and I will probably enjoy a playthrough or two... But I think I don't enjoy the grinding style gameplay that diablo is anymore.
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  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    The thing is, Diablo is the only game I preorder and not just that but physical Collector's Edition.
    I'm pretty sure Diablo 4 won't suck, and even if Blizzard goes against my concern and releases a game I'm not happy about, I'm sure that I will spend countless hours playing it.
    This is the reason why it will suck.
    They see how many people preordered the game for just believing 'it will be good' so they do not have to try make it a good game.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendzia View Post
    This is the reason why it will suck.
    They see how many people preordered the game for just believing 'it will be good' so they do not have to try make it a good game.
    Statements like this are pure bullshiit. If they are working on a game its obvious they will try make it as best as possible just to make more money because good game = more sales = more money. Preorders mean nothing. Its still can be a hit or miss because you cant be sure you will hit the player expectations.

    Like seriously how delusional you can be to think game devs are not trying to make good game?
    Last edited by Mamut; 2020-07-11 at 11:39 AM.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Mamut View Post
    Statements like this are pure bullshiit. If they are working on a game its obvious they will try make it as best as possible just to make more money because good game = more sales = more money. Preorders mean nothing. Its still can be a hit or miss because you cant be sure you will hit the player expectations.
    They are doing their games not to make them good but to financially satisfy investors.
    If preodreds hit certain $$ mark they do not have to care that much anymore and the game will be much worse than it could be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mamut View Post
    Like seriously how delusional you can be to think game devs are not trying to make good game?
    *ekhm*Warcraft 3: Refunded *ekhm*

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Mamut View Post
    Statements like this are pure bullshiit. If they are working on a game its obvious they will try make it as best as possible just to make more money because good game = more sales = more money. Preorders mean nothing. Its still can be a hit or miss because you cant be sure you will hit the player expectations.

    Like seriously how delusional you can be to think game devs are not trying to make good game?
    Corporations discovered that its cheaper to pump money into marketing than dev studios for increased quarterly returns. They dont give a shit about the future other than milking the fresh release with microtransactions and working on another title to boost another quarter.

    Game devs MAY care about making the good game, but those are not financing the project.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Mamut View Post
    But if there will be no trading at all then the drop chance for items must be very high and this kills whole purpose of ARPGs for me when gear just rain from the sky like in Diablo 3. Trading can balance this so you can still get a drop but if you are unlucky you can always buy some piece.
    Once trading is ingame its the most effective way to get things and then your forcing players to do it because you cant get the items you want, just look at vanilla D3 for the average player it was impossible to get gear and evem enough gold to keep up with repairs, unless your were lucky you were never getting anywhere, diablo should remain the more casual ARPG, PoE fill the roll of the more hardcore game.
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  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    The biggest problem that worries me is that they are bringing back the ability to trade powerful items, but due to the bad press from D3 they are not bringing back the RMAH.

    This is an obvious major mistake as for a healthily game the existence of the former mandates the existence of the the latter, without it the economy will be dictated by third party item trading sites (most likely Chinese) which players will have no choice but to use if they don't want to be at a disadvantage.
    because this is what happened in PoE... oh wait.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Once trading is ingame its the most effective way to get things and then your forcing players to do it because you cant get the items you want, just look at vanilla D3 for the average player it was impossible to get gear and evem enough gold to keep up with repairs, unless your were lucky you were never getting anywhere, diablo should remain the more casual ARPG, PoE fill the roll of the more hardcore game.
    why should diablo be more casual? i dont see any basis for this reasoning, other than d3 was bad.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by NihilSustinet View Post
    why should diablo be more casual? i dont see any basis for this reasoning, other than d3 was bad.
    Trading is just a bad system as it is never done right and your forced into doing it, diablo is the more casual game where you can get to the endgame fairly fast where as in PoE it takes much longer to get anywhere. Diablo 3 is the most successful ARPG ever made, the AH system never worked in diablo 3 it was terrible.

    Having trading in a game means its balanced around that system, if gear drops too little your forced to use trading, if it drops too much the system is pointless so its a lose lose everytime. Diablo 4 needs to be balanced around getting gear yourself without the need to trade but if you play with others then you can trade things.
    Last edited by kenn9530; 2020-07-12 at 03:18 AM.
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  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Trading is just a bad system as it is never done right and your forced into doing it, diablo is the more casual game where you can get to the endgame fairly fast where as in PoE it takes much longer to get anywhere. Diablo 3 is the most successful ARPG ever made, the AH system never worked in diablo 3 it was terrible.

    Having trading in a game means its balanced around that system, if gear drops too little your forced to use trading, if it drops too much the system is pointless so its a lose lose everytime. Diablo 4 needs to be balanced around getting gear yourself without the need to trade but if you play with others then you can trade things.
    But its only your opinion and not a fact. I think at this point PoE is more successfull than D3. Alot of people enjoy trading. I would even say I enjoyed Diablo 3 much more at release with RMAH than after all those changes. Thats why I had alot more hours played before paragon levels were added.

    Trading does not make the game hardcore.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    No they have nit tonthis point specified what tier of items fall under each category. It is quite possible that only mythic items are non tradeable. But I feel sets and legendaries and above will be non tradeable. Yellows tradeable once. But we will still have to see.

    Currently they have, ir have discussed the legendary consumable. I have high doubts it will make it going forward considering the sheer amount if negativity I have seen all around it considering it is considered just a bandaid on the larger itemization issue. Considering it was not in at Blizzcon then added, and I've seen more backlash about that than the initial reveal if itemization, I'll bet it's not in the game.

    But they did not say what falls under what classification yet.
    Ok. I missed the whole backlash about the legendary consubìmable though. I think it's a very good idea tbh, it's not like you'll drop thousands of them and makes gearing up way more interesting imho.

    Though i still think skillsets, talent trees and items in general are still WAAAAAAYYY too simplistic and streamlined. Right now, i don't see it very much different from what D3 was. I mean, you don't have customization. You just have "if i want to use X skill, i need Y legendary and need to spend points on these talents". And there's not much choice.

    Example, the Wizard, you have the elemental spells, the talents are divided by damage category. It's pretty much on rails.
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  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    Who is to say legendaries and set items are not in that classification?
    Blizzard. As the above poster mentioned they clarified this a while back.

  13. #133
    Eh, I tend to play Diablo 3 atm in bursts... for a few weeks to a month before not touching again for quite awhile... probably treat D4 no different.

  14. #134
    to me d3 is kinda like call of duty,i drop in,get boosted to max and just farm some gr's for different gear setups,its a quick drop in drop out burst of fun,i dont even treat it as an rpg

    there are plenty of other games out there that better fit that type,like the true succesor to d2,grim dawn

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mamut View Post
    And Im sure I will enjoy Diablo 4 alot even if it wont be a succes like D2 was.
    There is practically zero chance that D4 won't be bigger than D2 was, there is a small risk that it might not match D3's popularity considering it's reportedly going to be more like D1/2 (and despite what the D1/2 fans think about it D3 was the vastly more popular game) but overall it's got a good shot at doing well, the backlash from the Immortal reveal shows that there's a good appetite for it.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Blizzard. As the above poster mentioned they clarified this a while back.
    Can I get a source please other than a poster on MMO champ. As a lurker onnthe official site I have not once seen a clarification as to what will or will not be included, just speculation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    There is practically zero chance that D4 won't be bigger than D2 was, there is a small risk that it might not match D3's popularity considering it's reportedly going to be more like D1/2 (and despite what the D1/2 fans think about it D3 was the vastly more popular game) but overall it's got a good shot at doing well, the backlash from the Immortal reveal shows that there's a good appetite for it.
    I do believe they are going in a good direction to blend all three games into something new. The atmosphere of 1, the more character build customization of 2, and the smoothness and flexibility in changing builds if one chooses of 3.

  17. #137
    The D4 demo/unveil didn't look great at all. The gameplay effectively looked like a copy paste of Diablo 3 low level where you have no gear and the classes play like ass. The thing is, when Blizzard started turning all the legendary items and sets into super powerful game changing items in ROS they allowed classes to really shine and become extremely fun and satisfying to play, while they weren't all winners the gameplay in ROS and during seasons is just way way more satisfying than back in vanilla D3.

    Now it's fine that the classes play like ass when you don't have good gear, but D4 just looked like a carbon copy of D3 gameplay. D3 gameplay is for the most part really good, it was a big step up from D2 (releasing 12 years after that's expected) despite that D3 initially took several steps back on item design/interaction. Well on the current timeline we're looking at at least a 10 year gap between D3 and D4 yet the gameplay we've seen so far is close enough that it could be the same game.

    If D4 is just Diablo 3 "the open world MMO" with new graphics and animations it's going to fall flat.

    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    to me d3 is kinda like call of duty,i drop in,get boosted to max and just farm some gr's for different gear setups,its a quick drop in drop out burst of fun,i dont even treat it as an rpg
    I mean that's how a massive amount of people played Diablo 2. You'd get boosted to act 5 hell and youd run baal runs to power level up to 70-80 in no time at all, then you'd play however you wanted. Be it powerfarming pindle, or just running Baal for XP.. People absolutely played Diablo 2 during ladder seasons exactly like they play Diablo 3 during seasons.

    The only difference in Diablo 2 was you needed to be in a community to gear up if you wanted actual good gear, since gearing naturally is/was an impossible task as the best runes were so rare you could reasonably expect to never see them drop ever in the entirety of your time playing Diablo 2 through multiple ladders.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2020-07-27 at 04:50 AM.
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  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Snip
    I disagree with a lot of this. The D4 demo was incredibly fun to play. I absolutely fell in love with the druid and it definitely did not play like ass. I tried all 3 classes and they were fun. The barbarian played similarly to D3 but the other two felt different. Granted my experience was probably a bit better than most as my friend and I lucked out and had a developer play with us.

    The D2 comment about having to be in a community to gear up is way off. All the runes could be crafted in the cube and I had a lot of friends that geared up on their own. A lot of people just rushed people for forge, did countess runs, meph runs etc. Without botting I was able to get everything I needed for my sorceress and crusader. Trades were fairly frequent so it was easy to exchange runes for what you wanted. I never saw a SoJ drop but it wasn't hard to get one.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    The D2 comment about having to be in a community to gear up is way off. All the runes could be crafted in the cube and I had a lot of friends that geared up on their own. A lot of people just rushed people for forge, did countess runs, meph runs etc. Without botting I was able to get everything I needed for my sorceress and crusader. Trades were fairly frequent so it was easy to exchange runes for what you wanted. I never saw a SoJ drop but it wasn't hard to get one.
    Your chances of getting something like an IST or a Gul drop were already very low, but at least attainable from the hell forge if you power boosted characters over and over (which is a faster way of getting Ist/Gul runes than hoping for a drop in game, but still entirely based on RNG and low yield given you have just as high a chance of getting an Hel rune from your time investment.

    Anything above Gul you could reasonably expect to never see drop in your entire time playing the game. And talking about "upgrading" runes, that's such nonsense as it was never worth doing. Zod rune had a lower player value than Ber or Jah, and you want to upgrade from the bottom? It would take you trillions of El runes to convert to Zod. So let's say you wanted to make Breath of the Dying, sure the Vex is attainable by upgrading Ists and Guls, but the Zod? No.

    People who had good gear participated in communities like D2Jsp or in large clans, they ran bots, took part in "duping" and bought from chinese gold seller types. Diablo 2 gearing as a solo player or as a small group of friends is an impossibility unless you want to be entirely mediocre, because the chances of the high runes dropping (any of the high runes) is extremely low and upgrading requires huge quanitities of already rare runes by themselves.

    If you traded you very likely traded in duped runes, they were rampant. The highest and only high rune I ever had drop in years of playing was Sur, I also had an SOJ drop (possibly the most duped item) once. The only reason I was able to gear up my Barbarian was through trading communities and there is an extreme likelyhood that most of my gear included duped runes.. If duping was not a thing in Diablo 2 then even with botting the number of "BIS" geared players would drop through the floor.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2020-07-27 at 04:38 PM.
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  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbazz View Post
    Anything above Gul you could reasonably expect to never see drop in your entire time playing the game. And talking about "upgrading" runes, that's such nonsense as it was never worth doing. Zod rune had a lower player value than Ber or Jah, and you want to upgrade from the bottom? It would take you trillions of El runes to convert to Zod. So let's say you wanted to make Breath of the Dying, sure the Vex is attainable by upgrading Ists and Guls, but the Zod? No..
    You upgrade to Um and traded from there. It was entirely possible to gear up solo or with a small group.

    Also I meant pally not crusader, my mistake.

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