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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by monkaTOS View Post
    I've always wondered why you guys are giving Blizzard design team such a free pass by blaming everything on ATVI?
    I think Blizzard (and the WoW design team of 50 people in particular) are more than capable of taking bad game design decisions on their own.
    I don't think Bobby Kotick actually takes part in their morning stand-ups.

    I don't think we can ever magically time travel back to 2004 and I don't think new WoW releases will be significantly different, no matter who owns the corporate mothership.
    I'm not. They can easily make bad game designs. Like when they turned Uldum into an Indiana Jones movie. Or released reforging. But a lot of the issues we are having is also because they have to meet Activisions timetable.
    If what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Then I should be a god by now.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    But a lot of the issues we are having is also because they have to meet Activisions timetable.
    Those things must exist on Blizzard's side as well

    Part of the mess they're in at the moment (no new IPs, old titles taking years to release, missed quality goals. shrinking operating margins etc) is because they haven't had internal discipline to keep project scopes together. They run very old development methodology. Speed of change is glacially slow. Their feedback loop is around 2 years for WoW.

    They've squandered multi-million (billion?) projects like 7-years of Titan development. In fact, Blizzard cancels 50% of the games it develops - that sort of resource waste is going to catch up with you sooner or later, no matter how successful you are.

    It has caught up with Blizzard now. It doesn't matter who the corporate overlord is. This is Blizzard's problem and must be solved by Blizzard.
    Last edited by ComplexSignal; 2020-03-08 at 05:50 PM.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    I want it, maybe Disney can save Blizzard games from Activision and we can get that Kingdom Hearts/World Warcraft crossover WoW players have been clamoring for years.
    Like they saved Star Wars?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Mind You, I'm all for blizzard getting out from under the thumb of Activision but believe me, Disney buying them would be the WORST possible outcome.

    Why? Disney partners with EA which is where blizzard will go. They will go from under the heel of Activison to the complete utter game ruining dictatorship thats EA. Prepare to see lootboxes....wait I mean "Surprise Mechanics" in wow. Prepare to see not only Level skips, but soon, STORY SKIPS in wow. Prepare to see boxes on the shop that have a chance to contain mythic raid gear. EA will butcher wow to the point its no longer wow and wonder why the playerbase left. Activison is doing that already but at least their approach is to slowly creep in over the course of a few expansions and THEN hit you. EA will do it all upfront and worse.

    So no, I do not want Disney buying Blizzard, but I do not want Blizzard to remain with Activision.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by monkaTOS View Post
    Those things must exist on Blizzard's side as well

    Part of the mess they're in at the moment (no new IPs, old titles taking years to release, missed quality goals. shrinking operating margins etc) is because they haven't had internal discipline to keep project scopes together. They run very old development methodology. Speed of change is glacially slow. Their feedback loop is around 2 years for WoW.

    They've squandered multi-million (billion?) projects like 7-years of Titan development. In fact, Blizzard cancels 50% of the games it develops - that sort of resource waste is going to catch up with you sooner or later, no matter how successful you are.

    It has caught up with Blizzard now. It doesn't matter who the corporate overlord is. This is Blizzard's problem and must be solved by Blizzard.
    Yes, but typically the timetables of someone like Activision is much tighter i think. They want a specific amount of progression done in a certain time, and then the game must release when they want it to.

    Titan wasn't a "complete" waste, we got Overwatch out of what they did get developed.

    Well they can't fix it as long as someone else is in control of them.
    If what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Then I should be a god by now.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    Yes, but typically the timetables of someone like Activision is much tighter i think. They want a specific amount of progression done in a certain time, and then the game must release when they want it to.
    You have absolutely no way to know this (unless you work there). What you describe is pretty basic project management.
    Again - this on Blizzard, not on some evil corporate bogeyman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    Titan wasn't a "complete" waste, we got Overwatch out of what they did get developed.
    Overwatch was the last minute hail mary pass. Sure it worked out, but I doubt it compensates for 7 years of wasted development or the current lack of "NextGen MMO" that they were supposed to have in production. We're stuck with the desperate re-iterations to the legacy product from 15 years ago and missed profits from the failed project.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    Well they can't fix it as long as someone else is in control of them.
    Damn, you guys just keep on handing out "get out of jail free"-cards to Blizzard. They really can't do anything wrong huh?

    How about this:
    Blizzard are so damn incompetent, they have to be controlled because otherwise they'll spend another 7 years on cancelled project and come out with "oh we forgot to control the scope..oops!"
    Last edited by ComplexSignal; 2020-03-08 at 06:16 PM.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Stabbyfists View Post
    Why? Disney partners with EA which is where blizzard will go. They will go from under the heel of Activison to the complete utter game ruining dictatorship thats EA.
    That is not how things work at all. Disney closed down their first party game development, except for mobile, and instead partners with other companies to publish their games. EA isn't the only one that does Disney games. Disney wouldn't buy Blizzard only to give them to EA when Disney doesn't own EA at all. Disney buying Blizzard would be little different then them being owned by Activision Blizzard, Vivendi, and all the others who have owned Blizzard.

    The exception to that is if Disney wants to transform Blizzard into more then a studio which would mean they would become just like EA or Activision that over see other studios working for Disney.
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  7. #127
    At this point i think i would be way more happy when Disney owns Blizz than Actvission. Really.

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    I take it you haven't watched the most recent star wars movies then.
    I actually like them. I know I'm not a part of the vocal minority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    I'm afraid to even ask but what do you consider the latest quality products Disney released?
    They release solid Marvel products constantly. Their theme parks are top tier. Their cruise line is great. I liked the new Star Wars movies. They had Disney+ come out last year and a show on there went viral in meme culture.

    I guess I should ask you what large studio is constantly pumping out quality material as fast as Disney?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Go watch the new aladin or lion king, come back here and genuinely repeat that sentence please.
    Haven't watched those. They do not appeal to me.

  9. #129
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    I think this would be for the best. I really hope that means we might get some sweet Star Wars games in the future. Preferrably RPG's. :3

  10. #130
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Great, just what Warcraft needs: A fucking $200 million dollar big budget Hollywood film directed by JJ Abrams.
    hey man if they had the intrest and money an animated warcraft movie woulda been amazing, they did live action as they were worried about it, cause well fully animted woulda cost like 4 to 5 times more money.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Hell, people can't even tell the difference between a publisher and developer.
    SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    you cant say that here, you will be found in a ditch ripped apart by rotten "logic"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeula View Post
    This is no secret, we know Disney has been wanting to buy Blizzard for a while now. They’ll probably succeed and then we’re really in for it.
    Yeah, this, this was known almost a year ago.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    Financially, TLJ did well, but there was a pretty vocal backlash--and again, see the bit about Disney jealously guarding its IPs. They had to finish out the trilogy, but they canceled almost all the side stories when Solo flopped and TLJ got vocal, negative feedback. You're right that 'underperformed' was the wrong word choice for TLJ specifically.
    The "backlash" for TLJ was basically a few hundred Gen Xers (and a couple of younger dudes who seemed to be in it for the trolling, but mostly Gen Xers) going round all the genre sites whinging pathetically with the exact same BS and getting told to fuck off. There's absolutely no possibility Disney, of all people, made decisions based on that.

    They have had real issues with Star Wars, though.

    1) Rogue One only did okay, and Solo did underperform (flop is too strong). Disney clearly had higher expectations for them.

    2) Rogue One, Solo, and Rise of the Skywalker were all three "troubled movies" (TFA and TLJ were not). Rogue One required absolutely massive reshoots, to the point where the shape of the third act of the movie appears to be entirely different - I'm not sure why this happened, but it was after early cuts were seen so I assume Disney ordered it. Solo fired the original writers/directors, and replaced them with a "safe pair of hands", because they felt it was "too jokey" or something - that set back production and caused various issues, and I like Ron Howard but he doesn't make exciting or modern movies and he didn't here. Rise required to outright fire Colin Treverrow (and his script and directing would have been a disaster - he's a terrible director, it's astonishing they ever booked him - a sign of their fallibility, frankly) and bring in JJ, and then made JJ get Rise out when it clearly needed more time, because it was a huge fucking mess (as anyone who has seen it can attest - like, all my friends, who thought TFA and TLJ were between good and great, their first comment about Rise was some form of "What a mess!").

    3) They had problems finding stories people would actually want to watch as a movie. I can't remember the exact quote, but that's what it came down to (somewhere around the time where they pulled most of the in-development stuff). Whereas I think the success of the Mandalorian has them looking at TV much more seriously for Star Wars now (I mean, we just got a new series of Clone Wars, too!).

    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    It depends. Disney's obviously got no problem with making stuff not for kids. That's a bit of a meme but if you want I can go hunt down the subsidiaries owned by Disney that specialize in content aimed at young adults and adults and definitely aren't kid friendly. Hell, they've committed to keeping Deadpool films rated R going forward (don't mess with a proven formula and whatnot).
    They LITERALLY have NOT made that commitment. Please don't spread this false information. They have repeatedly dodged that issue. They have repeatedly said things which amount to "We think Deadpool is cool!", but they have NEVER committed to keeping it R-rated. If you think they have, source and quote, because I'm saying they haven't.

    I guarantee you that if they even ever made another Deadpool movie, it's going to be some sort of PG-13 romp. I'm sure it'll be funny-as-fuck. It may even be a great movie. But it's not going to be R, unless something really wild changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    And again, having the House of Mouse calling the shots, if Battlefront and Fallen Order are any indication, isn't a bad idea. Obviously the Mouse has no problem throwing its weight around and telling studios to fix their fuck-ups, because they do not want their IPs to be seen as subpar. With a game that prints money like WoW, Disney's interests would be in making sure it keeps printing money; maintenance-moding the game would be its death knell.
    Yeah, see you're not understanding the difference between licensing something out, and owning something.

    With BFII, they could say "Yeah, don't let it keep sucking!" because they have something to hold over EA, which is the license, and Disney don't have to spend a SINGLE PENNY making it not suck. EA does, if they want to keep that license. If Disney owned it, and it sucked, Disney would have to pay to fix it, and suddenly it's a different equation. You cannot honestly believe that one SW game sucking would damage the SW IP significantly, because mate, 7/10 Star Wars games, historically, have sucked monkey butt. And there's no way Disney believe that either. They'd assess the cost of making it not suck, and if it was too high, they'd quietly end it.

    With Fallen Order, I'm confused as to how you think Disney helped? Maybe I missed an article or something, but AFAIK, Disney got in the way repeatedly, and literally tried to stop them making it about a Jedi. They had to initially design the game with just "a force user" hoping they'd be allowed to use a Jedi, whilst they argued with Disney on this.

    I think re: WoW you overestimate how much Disney would like WoW's model. I think it's entirely possible Disney would think this was a tired, old-fashioned model, and push for F2P accompanied by a decreasing in spending on development and support. Disney are behind and fully accept tons of extremely aggressive mobile games based on their IPs. I mean, you think Fallen Order made them money? It didn't make shit compared to some of the trashy mobile games out there.

    The Warcraft IP has value. WoW itself? To Disney? That's wishful thinking. I think they'd give it a chance, as I said, I think we'd have one more expansion to see if it could be proved that this was a good model, but if that expansion didn't increase subs significantly and chart a course to higher profits, I think it's entirely possible Disney would push it to F2P (where Activision and Blizzard would be more cautious about that), because that has a benefit to them in that it introduces more people to the IP.

    Indeed, if Disney bought Blizzard, and did a Warcraft animated TV show, maybe a new movie, or whatever, I feel it's likely they'd want WoW to be F2P, or have an major F2P option (not just the starter thing), because they want their audience to just be able to go over and play WoW, not to have to mess with a subscription and so on. They value IPs, not individual products. Not shows, not movies, not games. IPs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by monkaTOS View Post
    Pressing 'X' for doubt.
    Compared to Marvel and Star Wars, the Blizzard IPs are obscure, minuscule and largely only recognized by gaming crowds.
    The Warcraft movie barely scraped together numbers that reach the worst performers of the Marvel franchise and it didn't do well in the domestic market. No one outside gaming knows what Overwatch is.
    Worth pointing out that this isn't as true as you might think. WoW has had over 100m people subscribe at one point or another. That's pretty huge (and that figure was from like 2014), and if you say "World of Warcraft" to someone aged 20-50, they know, at least in vague terms, what you're talking about, unless they're the kind of "I don't own a television!" sort of upper-middle-class types. I think it's fair to say that a lot more people know what WoW is than knew who Iron Man was before the RDJ movie.

    And yeah, loads of people outside of gaming have a vague to less-vague idea of what Overwatch is. I was as surprised to find this out as anyone else, but it was recently a topic of discussion in my office. Virtually everyone who had 10+ year old kids had heard of it.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Stabbyfists View Post
    Like they saved Star Wars?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Mind You, I'm all for blizzard getting out from under the thumb of Activision but believe me, Disney buying them would be the WORST possible outcome.

    Why? Disney partners with EA which is where blizzard will go. They will go from under the heel of Activison to the complete utter game ruining dictatorship thats EA. Prepare to see lootboxes....wait I mean "Surprise Mechanics" in wow. Prepare to see not only Level skips, but soon, STORY SKIPS in wow. Prepare to see boxes on the shop that have a chance to contain mythic raid gear. EA will butcher wow to the point its no longer wow and wonder why the playerbase left. Activison is doing that already but at least their approach is to slowly creep in over the course of a few expansions and THEN hit you. EA will do it all upfront and worse.

    So no, I do not want Disney buying Blizzard, but I do not want Blizzard to remain with Activision.
    Huh, damn, I didn't think it could be worse, but EA does sound pretty terrible, and that is right up their alley.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    I want it, maybe Disney can save Blizzard games from Activision and we can get that Kingdom Hearts/World Warcraft crossover WoW players have been clamoring for years.
    I know that SquarEnix games do a lot of collaboration between their various titles, even including Disney characters. Like you mentioned with KH. They do a lot of crossovers. Even with their mobile titles. Blizzard doesn't do crossovers with other games so much, i think it would make people support Blizzard more. *Like say..a SC themed crossover where you can get SC transmogs/mounts*

    - - - Updated - - -

    I did like the Mickey themed Star wars stuff, pretty cool!
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  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    Worth pointing out that this isn't as true as you might think. WoW has had over 100m people subscribe at one point or another. That's pretty huge (and that figure was from like 2014), and if you say "World of Warcraft" to someone aged 20-50, they know, at least in vague terms, what you're talking about, unless they're the kind of "I don't own a television!" sort of upper-middle-class types. I think it's fair to say that a lot more people know what WoW is than knew who Iron Man was before the RDJ movie.
    Sure WoW is probably the most recognizable of their titles, but doesn't actually mean that extends to the Warcraft franchise. Or actually anything beyond the game. Those 100m people didn't actually show up to see the movie. Especially in domestic markets. A lot of people have returned to play Classic, but I doubt we're in the 100m range (or even 10M).

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post
    And yeah, loads of people outside of gaming have a vague to less-vague idea of what Overwatch is. I was as surprised to find this out as anyone else, but it was recently a topic of discussion in my office. Virtually everyone who had 10+ year old kids had heard of it.
    Re: Overwatch, yeah, gamers (so 10+ year old kids) know it, but again - does your anecdote actually mean it has legs as a franchise from "lets-get-into-multibillion-deal-over-this"-perspective? Again - doubt.

    I'm willing to bet Spider-Man lunchbox sales are not in the same ballpark with Tracer lunchbox sales. I would still watch the shit out of Overwatch animated show produced by Disney, but I think I'm in niche market demographic.
    Last edited by ComplexSignal; 2020-03-09 at 05:09 AM.

  15. #135
    Old God Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelangel View Post
    Ok, why then do people around here seem to think that Activision is calling the shots on Blizzard?
    Because apparently its easier to blame the big bad Activision than to hold Blizzard responsible for their actions.

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  16. #136
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    Its bullshit. Disney wants ZERO to do with games. Its why they just license their IP's

  17. #137
    Scarab Lord Leotheras the Blind's Avatar
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    If this is true I have no idea what will be worse... Even more woke garbage being forced to be pushed into their games but have more freedom to design their games how they wish, or keep the current low effort everything with occasional woke shit that's low effort "LOOK WE FINALLY HAVE A GAY, BUY OUR GAME!"
    You know, it's kinda funny. On this forum you can question and criticize celebrities, developers, even governments. But only two you will net you instant infractions; religion and the actions of moderators. Really puts into perspective the literal god complexes we're dealing with here.

  18. #138
    Yeah Disney buying Blizzard would be bad, i cant wait for the raid where everything seem lost until Captain Marvel comes and rescue us.

    And lets not forget the fun it will be when some like Khadgar and Thrall magically turn female

    But lets be positive, when Tony Stark is added to the game, players will get their tinkerer class
    Last edited by Raven; 2020-03-09 at 06:13 AM.

  19. #139
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eurhetemec View Post

    1) .... and Solo did underperform (flop is too strong). Disney clearly had higher expectations for them.
    https://www.boxofficemojo.com/title/...ref_=bo_se_r_1 If you say so...275 million dollars budget (usually ppl add the same for marketing these days) at a 392 million dollar worldwide gross of which theatres also take a cut is "underperforming" (and that from a story about one of the most beloved characters)?

    PPl didn't cut that much slack for the Warcraft movie ^^

    I actually would say that TLJ and RoS "underperformed". Sure, they brought in 2.3 billion dollars combined (but costed a combined approx 600 million...without marketing coasts) - then again, after Disney paid 4 billion for Lucasfilm, there is no way they can be happy with that.

    Yeah...at the end of the day they will make their investment back, also ppl seem to like The Mandalorian. Disney has proven that they canbring their animated films back on track after a steep decline....I leave it to you whether Frozen and the CGI remakes of Jungle book etc are a sign of quality. They were however popular at the boxoffice.

    The company is just huge and the name alone is no guarantee that something "good" or successful emerges

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelangel View Post
    Ok, why then do people around here seem to think that Activision is calling the shots on Blizzard?
    Well..why is it with ...anything ... in this thread that ppl pretend to know how it works? I might remotely listen to somebody who can credibly tell me that he / she works in the gaming industry and then a small indie studio would already do stuff different than a major corporation.

    The answer is "because the internet" and everybody can just claim whatever they want without needing to back it up - and hardly anyone ever asks for facts and sources.
    Last edited by det; 2020-03-09 at 06:48 AM.

  20. #140
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    2 years ago I said:
    Quote Originally Posted by Alkizon View Post
    Much that, I don't think it will somehow worse affect neither art, nor story, nor game mechanics. Really, it's already difficult to expect something even worse.

    If we talk about mergers, then I would suggest (Disney) + (Activision-Blizzard) + (Microsoft). Conglomerate will subordinate a large part of entertainment infrastructure (including soft, games and movies with cartoons)
    and I still think the same way for current days
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