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  1. #1

    Removal of Gear Enhancements (Jewelcrafting, and the Major/Minor Glyph Systems)

    So, for those unaware, previously, WoW used two have two systems that I always thought were pretty interesting. The first was colored gem sockets for Jewelcrafting. Jewels had set colors, and some were hybrids that worked as two colors, but gave two different stats. By correctly matching all the colors, you'd get a small amount of an additional stat. There were also Meta Gems, which were generally added to the head slot, which gave additional passive bonuses.
    Blacksmiths could make belt buckles which provided everyone with an additional gem socket. JCs also got gems that they themselves could wear, but nobody else could. All in all, the system, although was seen as mandatory and "solved", as there was always a best stat to have, was a nice boon to the economy, and I don't remember hearing a lot of people complaining.

    Additionally, there was a Glyph system added in WotLK, which was the original purpose of Scribes. Glyphs were either functional, but not power changes to spells (generally Minor Glyphs), or Power changes to spells or changed mechanics (Major Glyphs), that were an interesting way to change how abilities functioned. It was iterated upon until its full removal in favor of purely cosmetic glyphs, to the point where Scribes are the ones who make Vantus runes and contracts. Whopee.

    Were there player concerns about these systems? I can't remember for the life of me anybody legitimately complaining about them, with the exception of "oh boy, new loot, gotta spend money on it now", which is still in the game with Enchanting.

    So why did they remove this system? My favorite profession was Jewelcrafting during tail end of WotLK and Cata, and I miss it dearly.

  2. #2
    Blizzard:

    Makes the game too complicated (casual-unfriendly) and you had to go to a major city everytime you got a piece of new gear mid raid...the tragedy.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Blizzard:

    Makes the game too complicated (casual-unfriendly) and you had to go to a major city everytime you got a piece of new gear mid raid...the tragedy.
    Also Blizzard:

    Let's make systems so complicated that everyone needs to use a simulator to see if a new piece of gear is an upgrade

  4. #4
    Blizz removed these systems (including enchants on almost every piece of gear and reforging) because they think it takes too much time to be able to equip a potential upgrade because you would need to enchant, embed gems and reforge it (or your entire gear set) in order to be able to equip it.

    In reality, you will always have a JCer, enchanter etc. In your raid group to get all this stuff done while doing trash on the way to the next boss.

    In a dungeon environment you would have to wait until after you have finished the dungeon anyways.

    All in all, it was non sensical for Blizz to remove the depth of all the professions.

  5. #5
    I found Blizzards reply to the removal of "reforging" (for example)
    Always the same arguments...
    Have a trip in memory lane.


  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    I found Blizzards reply to the removal of "reforging" (for example)
    Always the same arguments...
    Have a trip in memory lane.

    IF their intent was to give players the ability to customize their gear and make it more unique, they could have added stats you do not actually have access to on normal pieces of gear. They could have done cosmetic effects for abilities. They could have done lots of things... They chose to gave up, that's a choice too I suppose.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by spalernTJ View Post
    IF their intent was to give players the ability to customize their gear and make it more unique, they could have added stats you do not actually have access to on normal pieces of gear. They could have done cosmetic effects for abilities. They could have done lots of things... They chose to gave up, that's a choice too I suppose.
    The person at Bliizzard's HQ who invented/created the "illusion of choice" argument must have felt incredibly smart once he shared it with his co-workers.
    His co-workers probably applauded and rose from their chairs...the boss probably gave him a raise also.

    Dumbest argument on planet earth IMO

    Only true for competitive PvE...never true for PvP, world content and fun-casual builds.

  8. #8
    I just don't understand how the mental gymnastics worked.

    "Sir, we've built a set of professions around this system."

    "Great, now, remove those systems entirely!"

    "But sir, what about those professions?"

    "They will perish."

  9. #9
    I am Murloc! Kuja's Avatar
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    I found the game to be more interesting and engaging back when there were sockets, glyphs and enchant options on most items, and reforging especially. It was more fun making gold too when there were so many gems and enchants needed.

    I don't even understand why they limited the customization so much. Even talent trees got simplified, when I was hoping to get more complex character building, POE style almost. If there's a casual player who doesn't care if there's empty sockets, non-enchanted gear in use and a non cookie-cutter talent build. A player like that would likely do LFR only at most, where your dedication wouldn't matter.

    But the rest of us could finally get to enjoy the game more.
    Last edited by Kuja; 2020-03-08 at 12:46 AM.

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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    The person at Bliizzard's HQ who invented/created the "illusion of choice" argument must have felt incredibly smart once he shared it with his co-workers.
    His co-workers probably applauded and rose from their chairs...the boss probably gave him a raise also.

    Dumbest argument on planet earth IMO

    Only true for competitive PvE...never true for PvP, world content and fun-casual builds.
    I loved reforging, solely because it allowed me to get more of whatever stat I wanted / liked. I hated (Still do) Versatility for its abhorrent, boring nature, I would always competitive or not, reforge versatility into a more fun stat like haste, crit... Or multistrike, don't actually remember if they co-existed or not.

  11. #11
    I would really love an ESO style spin on some of the major abilities in WoW. It could add a lot of depth, at the same time be a system they keep in the game from here on out. And I can't see anyone not liking it.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Only true for competitive PvE...never true for PvP, world content and fun-casual builds.
    "world content" and "fun-casual builds" shouldn't care whether items are 1% upgrades anyway. For someone who wrote a cute sentence about how "dumb" the argument is, you really went ahead and made one straight up 10x worse.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by jzhbee View Post
    So, for those unaware, previously, WoW used two have two systems that I always thought were pretty interesting. The first was colored gem sockets for Jewelcrafting. Jewels had set colors, and some were hybrids that worked as two colors, but gave two different stats. By correctly matching all the colors, you'd get a small amount of an additional stat. There were also Meta Gems, which were generally added to the head slot, which gave additional passive bonuses.
    Blacksmiths could make belt buckles which provided everyone with an additional gem socket. JCs also got gems that they themselves could wear, but nobody else could. All in all, the system, although was seen as mandatory and "solved", as there was always a best stat to have, was a nice boon to the economy, and I don't remember hearing a lot of people complaining.

    Additionally, there was a Glyph system added in WotLK, which was the original purpose of Scribes. Glyphs were either functional, but not power changes to spells (generally Minor Glyphs), or Power changes to spells or changed mechanics (Major Glyphs), that were an interesting way to change how abilities functioned. It was iterated upon until its full removal in favor of purely cosmetic glyphs, to the point where Scribes are the ones who make Vantus runes and contracts. Whopee.

    Were there player concerns about these systems? I can't remember for the life of me anybody legitimately complaining about them, with the exception of "oh boy, new loot, gotta spend money on it now", which is still in the game with Enchanting.

    So why did they remove this system? My favorite profession was Jewelcrafting during tail end of WotLK and Cata, and I miss it dearly.
    They got rid of the colored slot system because people just ignored it. What did an extra 20 strength matter when just having all crit in your slots made more sense? Same thing with the meta-slot, you'd only put in what gems you needed to activate it then the rest of your gems would just be either primary or secondary stat gems depending on the weight.

    Then you'd get the people complaining when a new piece of gear dropped but suddenly you'd have to change up all your gems because that was the slot which activated your meta-gem.

    Inscription was a dead profession as soon as it landed. It should have just been what the Heart of Azeroth and Artifact weapons were - a rune system built only for the WotLK expansion. To carry it forward didn't make any sense, every expansion they'd have to either nerf previous expansion inscriptions heavily or they'd have to just reintroduce them only slightly better which just puts them in a wacky and purposeless arms race.

    The professions as they currently stand could be a lot more useful, but that's an across the board thing. For inscription to now make attack power and stamina scrolls along with contracts and runes just makes a lot more sense than the major and minor glyphs that were just a set and forget thing that if carried through would mean that you would have to have people pushed into old content to get mats to make old glyphs since they were BiS.

    I get that it sucks to have lost some of the RPG elements, but really they aren't lost, they are just moved around.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuja View Post
    I found the game to be more interesting and engaging back when there were sockets, glyphs and enchant options on most items, and reforging especially. It was more fun making gold too when there were so many gems and enchants needed.

    I don't even understand why they limited the customization so much. Even talent trees got simplified, when I was hoping to get more complex character building, POE style almost. If there's a casual player who doesn't care if there's empty sockets, non-enchanted gear in use and a non cookie-cutter talent build. A player like that would likely do LFR only at most, where your dedication wouldn't matter.

    But the rest of us could finally get to enjoy the game more.
    Path of Exile is a terrible example of systems WoW should strive to emulate. The systems in that game are mechanically daunting to the point of immediately turning off many players.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nzx View Post
    "world content" and "fun-casual builds" shouldn't care whether items are 1% upgrades anyway. For someone who wrote a cute sentence about how "dumb" the argument is, you really went ahead and made one straight up 10x worse.
    As a fun-casual build connoisseur such as myself...just because you picked a out of the ordinary build it doesnt mean you dont want to push its limits.

    Idea:
    Boomkin Tank for 5-man dungeons

    See? Is a stupid idea...but do i want to min max it? Yes...i want to min max the "stupid" build

  15. #15
    Don't mention when the game was fun and professions had purpose.

  16. #16
    I am Murloc! Kuja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelly View Post
    Path of Exile is a terrible example of systems WoW should strive to emulate. The systems in that game are mechanically daunting to the point of immediately turning off many players.
    True. I have to open google everytime I have a point to spend D: So not quite as complex as that, but something similar to old talent trees, just bigger and get 2 talent points every level.

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  17. #17
    I think the reforging point blizzard made at the time is true, reforging was just use an addon to get the stats you want, but it felt rpg which I think is the point blizzard didn't understand. I 100% believe you can make a system that matters more than reforging for gear customization, they just didn't. I have way bigger issues with the removal of glyphs because I think that is more connected of them not wanting to maintain features for a long time(over multiple xpacs). This is like why they dont give us new permanent talents and instead give us temporary power like artifacts, azerites, legion/SL legendaries. It Seems they don't want to put a solid amount of dev time/work into classes for long hauls, and would rather be able to make generic powers or class based powers that they can throw away without people complaining as that's what happened when they did (which is fair). If they think they should remove something from a class I feel they should have the balls and confidence to say they are removing it and are gonna make the class better, instead of giving fake class design and maybe some get to keep something (as a talent for most that stayed).

    I understand it takes a lot of maintenance to make permanent features for classes and improve, iterate, create,etc. but I feel it has to happen for wow, would put a lot of confidence that the devs are working to make classes and game customization the best it can be, instead of the impressions of a temporary system where as we've seen most is thrown out.

  18. #18
    Blizzard is literally calling me a schizoid who has "illusions" (illusion of choice) because in their eyes competitive raids, dungeons and arena are the only content worth doing.
    Basically Blizzard is telling me im playing the game "wrong" if i dont "spec" for this content.

    But i tell you what.

    Im sick and tired of other people or Blizzard telling me what i must enjoy doing or how im "supposed" to play the game.
    And most of all, dont call me a schizoid for enjoying other types of content.

    Blizzard: All types of cutomization are an illusion in RPG's. You are just a schizoid having illusions

    Me: How the hell did we end up here? Isnt this a RPG?
    Last edited by Shadoowpunk; 2020-03-08 at 01:31 AM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by jzhbee View Post
    So, for those unaware, previously, WoW used two have two systems that I always thought were pretty interesting. The first was colored gem sockets for Jewelcrafting. Jewels had set colors, and some were hybrids that worked as two colors, but gave two different stats. By correctly matching all the colors, you'd get a small amount of an additional stat. There were also Meta Gems, which were generally added to the head slot, which gave additional passive bonuses.
    Blacksmiths could make belt buckles which provided everyone with an additional gem socket. JCs also got gems that they themselves could wear, but nobody else could. All in all, the system, although was seen as mandatory and "solved", as there was always a best stat to have, was a nice boon to the economy, and I don't remember hearing a lot of people complaining.

    Additionally, there was a Glyph system added in WotLK, which was the original purpose of Scribes. Glyphs were either functional, but not power changes to spells (generally Minor Glyphs), or Power changes to spells or changed mechanics (Major Glyphs), that were an interesting way to change how abilities functioned. It was iterated upon until its full removal in favor of purely cosmetic glyphs, to the point where Scribes are the ones who make Vantus runes and contracts. Whopee.

    Were there player concerns about these systems? I can't remember for the life of me anybody legitimately complaining about them, with the exception of "oh boy, new loot, gotta spend money on it now", which is still in the game with Enchanting.

    So why did they remove this system? My favorite profession was Jewelcrafting during tail end of WotLK and Cata, and I miss it dearly.
    Glyphs were 1st added to give players options in their choices, but like all things, specifics became mandatory, and if you didn't have them you suffered and often benched /not invited. As for gems blizzard did what they could to curb stat stacking, remember we used to also have Helm, Shoulder, and Pants "enhancements", same reason they did away with Reforging.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Blizzard is literally calling me a schizoid who has "illusions" (illusion of choice) because in their eyes competitive raids, dungeons and arena are the only content worth doing.
    Basically Blizzard is telling me im playing the game "wrong" if i dont "spec" for this content.

    But i tell you what.

    Im sick and tired of other people or Blizzard telling me what i must enjoy doing or how im "supposed" to play the game.
    And most of all, dont call me a schizoid for enjoying other types of content.

    Blizzard: All types of cutomization are an illusion in RPG's. You are just a schizoid having illusions

    Me: How the hell did we end up here? Isnt this a RPG?
    Are you just making up arguments in your head to have something to say?

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