dear blizzard take your time to make next xpansion right

[Gonfer]

Using participation rates as an argument does imply that however.

Participation rates are a clear indicator of what the majority of players prefers in the game.

The bread and butter for the raiding scene are the encounters, the biggest workload are the visuals.
They could've kept the Vanilla formula and throw a new raid together within a few weeks by re using the visuals and assets from world content / 5man dungeons.

They did not, as they wanted to make raids a main feature for many. Without catering to many.

No, they just don't know how to built a good MMO without these aspects.
Your idea of "horizonal progression" follows the same mistakes, you are just casualizing the reward structure, not changing the actual game.

Not really, as another reward structure would allow the devs the separate these game systems, allowing them to also create separate game mechanics. Horizontal progression would not just be other stats, but purpose specific gearing. You could add abilties from gear selection, for example. Allow you to focus on performance or survivbility in PVP for example, and allow you a way deeper gaming experience.

And at this point, Blizzard won't fuck around with the formula any further, because if they fuck it up, Blizzard has a huge problem.
And corporate structures aren't known for taking on great risks.

Unfortunately. But i agree, it is possibly too late to get away from vertical progression.

Hanlon's razor.
You should look it up.

Thank you. No need. You should have noticed the word "stupid" in the part you quoted.

Considering your complaints about gearing, it's absolutely ironic to pull this argument.
During the "prime" of the game, you got even worse gear without being part of a guild in the grand scheme of things.

Do you want to tell me classic was the "prime" of the game? I do not really agree. The prime was Wrath of the Lich King, from my point of view.

Thinking that you could somehow turn LFR into a great experience while also keeping the raid aspect alive shows that you really have no idea what you're talking about.
What sort of encounter design you then want to see?

I would turn the encounter design like being in Warfronts. I would move the focus from combat and boss mechanics to telling the story. I would add game systems, which would lead the players. And which would tell the narrative. I would make a theater mode out of LFR, without any need to play flawless. There is enough bullshit in world of warcraft where people have to perform. LFR does not need to be that.

I said it above, the issue of LFR is the fact that it's supposed to deliver a raiding experience to people who do not want to raid, which should give a hint that this content has some "design restrictions".

Just get rid of the idea it should be a typical raiiding experience. It should tell the story, and it should show the content.

Yeah, because there are no casuals that want to heal or tank.
Man, visions must be right up your alley.

People tank and heal in Warfronts as well. And yet they do not produce wipes.

It just works off the regular tank/healer/dps formula, which works perfectly fine even for the casual playerbase, as seen in 5man dungeons.

A theater mode just would not need the trinity. It should not create hour long queues for correct group settings.

If you have *the* idea how a casual WoW is supposed to look like, go ahead, apply to Blizzard and present your idea, if it truly brings in Millions of player as you say, they'll take it.

Blizzard gives a shit about feedback. No matter if it is your feedback or my feedback.

[Seranthor]

Yeah, yet, the devs do not honor the big audience that makes big raids possible. The people want a theater mode. The devs give them a wipe fest. For some malicious joy of organized raiders. While i do not really wonder blizzard lost 149 million players with that attitude.

Do you think that making up numbers somehow bolsters your credibility? It doesn't... it just exposes you as a liar.

[kamuimac]

Has it ever occurred to you that no one really knows how *real casual* MMORPG is supposed to look like?

Like, the basic formula that Blizzard applied in creating WoW was a casualized version of Everquest.
That succeeded, so they kept casualizing the game because it worked in the past, removed barriers, increased accessability, made everything more convenient and yadada.

But i think we're at a certain point where this stops working, the issue with the legendary cloak and N'zoth LFR has shown that.
A cloak, that is the most powerful item within that slot for the remainder of this expansion, which power can be increased even further via Visions, acquireable via 2-3h questchain that doesn't have any real challenge involved...and people still skipped it.

I am not blaming casuals nor want to imply that going "more hardcore" would make the game better / more successful, but it gives you a hint that the "casualization of the reward structure" isn't the key to make a good casual game, but that's the catch, it's the one trick Blizzard had their bag for the last 15 years and that has kinda stopped working.

I've grown that apathetic towards the design of retail that i simply say:
Do whatever you want to do with the game, but make it enjoyable, being a casual game is not by default a bad thing to me , a game doesn't need to be super difficult to entertain me, but it needs some sort of entertainment value that has grown rather small to me.

Even if you want to disregard everything i said above, take my word as a hardcore raider:
The game does not cater towards the hardcore audience, a lot of people from the hardcore audience have spoken out and they are not happy with the direction of the game.
Not the "they're catering to casuals" or "it's too easy"; "Balance sucks" or whatever, they are complaining about intentional changes or systems made by Blizzard, where the devs have absolutely not budged at all to improve things for the "hardcore" audience.

And if both sides, the casual and hardcore, are complaining, it's perhaps a sign that the quality has simply degraded or the devs are creating content / gameplay loops that aren't that fun.
It just goes back what i implied above, i think Blizzard really wants to go full casual, but they have no damn clue how such a version of WoW is supposed to look like that is actually fun to play.

I mean, just as one example, do you really think Blizzard had Rated PvP on their Radar when they implemented corruption Affixes such as Echoing Void / Twilight Devastation / Appendages and Infinite Stars?
Somehow i doubt it.

people skipped it because that questchain is incredibly boring

im mean lets be real . out of that 3 hours you spend at least 1 hour traveling from point A to B to C

instead this s..it they should have made interesting fun 30-40 minutes scenario to clear. skippable on alts.

but its done in order to hide lack of content

casualisation is exacly the way . look how many people clear WQ , look how many people farm assaults . and look how few people do visions.

in 9.0 blizzard should bring back badges to normal/hc dungeons. this move alone would bring milions back to game

i dare devs - put badges to dungeons back for 1 singular tier - and see completion numbers skyrocket

- - - Updated - - -

1. An Achievement they're missing
2. Transmog (Warfront loot has the Elite PvP Armor skin from S1 / S2, which is now unavailable)
3. Possible corrupted Item from the Heroic Darkshore Warfront

I don't think they're exactly common, however.

they are. only hting you have to do is put hard 440 or 450 req in box.

then everybody wants in those groups because they know they dont have to carry any fresh dinged alts

[Kralljin]

people skipped it because that questchain is incredibly boring

The point is to highlight that you don't get more subs by handing out extremely powerful rewards for not so difficult content.

casualisation is exacly the way . look how many people clear WQ , look how many people farm assaults . and look how few people do visions.

Visions aren't hardcore content, no idea where you get that idea from.

i dare devs - put badges to dungeons back for 1 singular tier - and see completion numbers skyrocket

What do badges have to do with casualization?

Like...what's your point?
Back when badges still existed, the reward structure wasn't exactly more friendly towards casual players.
30 days of daily heroic for a single raid equivalent piece, sounds like a tale out of some hardcore MMO and was exactly the case in Wotlk.

They moved away from badges so they could drop you loot straight into your inventory, via WQ's, Emissaries and whatnot.

What you probably mean is a less randomized reward structure, which is a different beast entirely and quite frankly also more popular within the "hardcore" scene.

then everybody wants in those groups because they know they dont have to carry any fresh dinged alts

Okay, and what do those hardcore mythic raider get out of that warfront? If it's not power, you already lost a substantial amount of them.

Like, some players don't want to carry others, big shock, so they join a group that has a requirement.
And you don't even need to raid Mythic for 470 Ilvl, raiding Heroic + Weekly M+ suffices to reach that.

It should tell the story, and it should show the content.

Out of all the weaknesses that WoW currently has, the story is one the biggest.
Their story team is simply not on a level to be an actual draw and carry the game, that may work for single player RPG's that put their focus onto that, but becomes increasingly difficult within an MMO setting and Blizzard not being a big name as far as story is concerned makes this not a good idea.

They tried that in BfA without question (after all, the budget for those Saurfang CGI cinematic must've come from somewhere) and it didn't really work out.

it should not create hour long queues for correct group settings.

Blizzard has sped up the loot acquisition by such a degree that you don't really need LFR to gear your character anymore.
Like, there's your reason why queues are so long, the loot in there isn't worth your time.

Your average LFR takes like what, 30-45min if everything goes well?
How long does an Emissary take that can give you up to Normal Ilvl? Probably less and you don't even run into the danger of getting kicked or anything.

Blizzard gives a shit about feedback. No matter if it is your feedback or my feedback.

Their superiors care about money, though.

[kaminaris]

in 9.0 blizzard should bring back badges to normal/hc dungeons. this move alone would bring milions back to game[/B]

i dare devs - put badges to dungeons back for 1 singular tier - and see completion numbers skyrocket

Oh nononono, don't be delusional, that won't bring back literally anyone.

[Demithio]

Yeah, no, not happening. I really can't believe that people are still writing book-like posts and replies about this game.