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  1. #241
    People always recall the past as being better than the present.
    I enjoyed Legion, atleast the majority of it.. But I don't think it was much better than BfA.

  2. #242
    Old God Orby's Avatar
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    The onyl thing that sucked about Legion was the fact that nothing moved on with you by the time BfA came out, all the stuff you worked for completely deleted, lile making a culture of art and then some dude melting it back down and telling your start over. Bfa is going to be the same.

    But while it was going Legion was an awesome expansion.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    Nope it wasn't shit. I had all chars with leggos, about 6 chars with it, you had all the expansion to try get them, as i said you're all exaggerated with leggos. Wasn't hard to get, you had all the time in the world to get, you would get it on everything you did on game, chests, rares, weekly chests, raids, dungeons. What do you have in bfa? Titan residuum, weekly chest that barely contains anything, raids that you do for weeks and you get gold, people still farming razor coral since EP, essences, you do assaults and you have a chance to have gear + chance of becoming corrupted, i got nothing yet in any assaults, i barely get gear on visions too and corrupted. Exaggerated when saying leggos is shit. I will repeat you had all the time in the world, your rng was just bad enough.
    Loved legiondairies. I used 2.5 months on my main to get all legendaries for my spec in Legion(from middle of november 2016). It is gone almost 2 months now with something that is more easily grindable, but have yet to see Infinite Stars on my main. Every time I ask someone what content they did to get legendaries the answer is mostly that they did a raid and emissaries and then they still proceed to complain that they didn't get legendaries. Which is hilarious in itself. Idling in Dalaran didn't get you legendaries? Shocker.

    Legendaries was only bad the first 3 months of Legion because of the hard cap. After that you got legendaries once a week. When Nighthold came out the issues was over. They were far better balanced and you got so much content you could do that could trigger the bad luck protection(BLP). Every raider with some respect for him/herself had all the leggos for his main spec and at least some for the mainspecs by Nighthold. Not to mention several was class-wide. Got BiS for mainspec within 6 legendaries? Swap lootspec and have legendaries thrown after you since there was catch-up BLP.

    RNG is RNG. Anyone who say corruption is better are flat out lying. With legendaries you would get what you wanted eventually. Doesn't help it is more likely to get the corruption you want now. How many different corruptions can you get now? 50? 60? You can end up doing BfA for 10 years without seeing the one you want. Wasn't the case with Legendaries because of BLP. Do the content and you had them eventually. I see people say they quit the game for not getting their BiS within a couple of months in Legion. How sad is it to stop playing a game like WoW just because you had bad RNG which eventually would bring you those BiS legendaries. Do I stop playing WoW just because I don't get Infinite Stars on my main? That would be insane.
    Horde bad, smash monkey. Who is a good monkey? You are!

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  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    RNG is RNG. Anyone who say corruption is better are flat out lying. With legendaries you would get what you wanted eventually. Doesn't help it is more likely to get the corruption you want now. How many different corruptions can you get now? 50? 60? You can end up doing BfA for 10 years without seeing the one you want. Wasn't the case with Legendaries because of BLP. Do the content and you had them eventually. I see people say they quit the game for not getting their BiS within a couple of months in Legion. How sad is it to stop playing a game like WoW just because you had bad RNG which eventually would bring you those BiS legendaries. Do I stop playing WoW just because I don't get Infinite Stars on my main? That would be insane.
    This argument greatly exaggerates the value of BLP. There were people who didn't get their BiS Legendary until Antorus even with BLP. That's an extremely demotivating experience. "Just play more" is a terrible excuse when you have absolutely no control over what the game gives you. The amount of power baked into certain Legendaries didn't help matters. It was a terrible system, there's no amount of argumentation which can be made in favor of it.

    That said, I understand some of the comparisons to Corrupted gear because it, like Legiondaries, suffers from a lack of deterministic acquisition methods. I don't know if I'd go so far to say that Legiondaries were better simply because "you'd eventually get what you want" because the acquisition rates of Corrupted gear is far higher (even with BLP taken into account). The feeling of getting a shitty Legiondary pales in comparison to getting a shitty Corrupted piece. (Especially since you can cleanse Corrupted gear and if the piece was an upgrade, it's still an upgrade.)
    Last edited by otaXephon; 2020-03-11 at 05:00 PM.

  5. #245
    Nothing at all, BFA is new, Legion is the last expansions. When the next expansion comes out the cycle will repeat. It's WoW, when there's something worse in the eyes of the players, the previous expansion suddenly becomes amazing. I promise if you scrolled through posts of people slamming BFA and praising Legion, they were saying how crap Legion was 2 years ago.

    I never think an expansion is bad, it has bad aspects of course but that's only because the aspects I dislike were placed in to appease others who enjoy that part of the game. Like Battlepets, or World quests, or the dailies on the islands they always do like broken shore/argus/Nazjatar. Legion had some pretty solid raid encounters(yes a lot of them were ruined by the concept of stacking rogues, however since none of us are in top guilds we didn't do that, so we don't need to cry or rant about it) My guild had 2 rogues for Mythic KJ and it was a solid fight, same with Avatar.

  6. #246
    Azerite system completely killed BfA for me.

    Legion was heavy grinding and RNG for legendaries, but by Nighthold there was a good chance you had the legendaries you needed/wanted (though EN was rough not having the ones you really needed).

    Battle for Azeroth?

    It was so fucking stupid trying to grind for gear. See, we HAD to have a certain combination of traits to perform well, or to even fix our rotations in some cases. In the case of me as a warrior, it was shitty walking around with gear as many as 40 ilvls higher, but it had dog shit traits. It was unusable until I acquired new pieces elsewhere that had those traits to make up for it. The entire system of doing this Tetris of Azerite Traits was ludicrous, especially if an entire gear sets of 20+ ilvls difference was actually inferior because I was missing those core traits. I wasn't much into PvP in BfA, but it was alright, I guess.

    Anyway, I quit after Battle for Dazar'alor, even though I never technically defeated Jaina (a bunch of 7% wipes pre-nerfs, so I'd seen the fight).

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    This argument greatly exaggerates the value of BLP. There were people who didn't get their BiS Legendary until Antorus even with BLP. That's an extremely demotivating experience. "Just play more" is a terrible excuse when you have absolutely no control over what the game gives you. The amount of power baked into certain Legendaries didn't help matters. It was a terrible system, there's no amount of argumentation which can be made in favor of it.
    Then those players(you?) didn't do the content provided to you. A terrible system is just your opinion, I think the acquisition was okay, but the feeling of getting legendaries was great, far greater than getting a good corruption. Because legendaries could do something with your gamestyle, while every corruption will give you the same, more shit to dodge. We just had a talk in the guild not long ago and we talked about how we miss legendaries and the feeling of it waiting for us behind every m+, raidboss, emissary, even rare mobs out in the world. A huge misconception was that Emissary had the highest chance of giving you legendaries. LFR had a far higher chance and people did not know this. And from 7.2 you could buy relinquished which had a chance to give you legendary in that particular slot. Starting from greatest to lowest chance: Weekly Chest->Raids->dungeons->emissary->rare mobs.

    BLP was great, far greater than you pretend it to be. If you didn't get it before Antorus you either played 2 hours a week or sat in Dalaran not doing shit while you could have gone out and done dungeons, raids, previous raids even for that matter. I did EN while Nighthold was current but when ToS came out I didn't have to do that anymore because I was decked in Legendaries, on several alts too.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Eninya View Post
    Legion was heavy grinding and RNG for legendaries, but by Nighthold there was a good chance you had the legendaries you needed/wanted (though EN was rough not having the ones you really needed).
    Yeah, this is my conclusion too. It sucked in EN, no doubt. But when they removed that Hard cap, where people already should have gotten 8-10 but was stuck with 4, was the thing that "released" the legendary system I got used to. A leggo once a week kind of thing.
    Horde bad, smash monkey. Who is a good monkey? You are!

    Let loot be loot.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by The Dark One View Post
    I mean, it seems you purposely left the best bit about Legion out of your rant.

    The class focused stories, and quests surrounding those - That's why a lot of people liked Legion.

    But if your the kind of person that skips every cutscene and just zooms through everything, then yeah, you wouldn't have enjoyed it as much. Also it was a very alt-friendly expansion.
    Very alt friendly is a bit of a stretch isn't it.... Legion was the first Addon which made Twinking harder. By a longshot

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    This argument greatly exaggerates the value of BLP. There were people who didn't get their BiS Legendary until Antorus even with BLP. That's an extremely demotivating experience. "Just play more" is a terrible excuse when you have absolutely no control over what the game gives you. The amount of power baked into certain Legendaries didn't help matters. It was a terrible system, there's no amount of argumentation which can be made in favor of it.
    There's no way they didn't get their BiS legendary until Antorus unless it was a newer toon.

    I was playing my paladin then and I was working on getting off spec legendaries even for Holy and I don't play Holy, and refuse to.

    The only other situation I could see was stuff like the Soul of the legendary rings, since those were added with 7.2.5 (according to Wowhead).

  10. #250
    Essences, island loot and now corruption.

    There just weren't as many glaring issues. I just came back, and coming back to legion was such a smoother experience. I have to farm all these essences still. It's daunting. And now there's a cloak i have to level up too?! And is it really going to be running the same shadow Stormwind over and over?

    I think they went too far in the other direction with end game player progression. There's just too much to have to level up and "farm".
    I'm a thread killer.

  11. #251
    Legion was horseshit, BfA cut out parts of class toolkit (Artifacts) and doubled down on the worst decisions of Legion.
    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    I'm sorry you didn't have the same experience. But with bad luck protection, and you playing "hard" for 3 months, then only getting one Legendary? Thats 100% bullshit. Sorry friend. I had a group of guildies/friends. Some were getting 1 a week, but those were the folks that spammed M+ and cleared normal/heroic/mythic raids every week to keep building up the chance. Even most casual players in my guild were getting 1 every 2-3 weeks. So again, you either didn't play hard like you claim, or you weren't really playing at all. My experience, was not isolated to only me.
    Yeh, you dont know what youre talking about.
    Let's look at the test results. You are a horrible person. It says right here, you're a horrible person. We weren't even testing that. Don't let the horrible person thing get you down though. Science justified your parents choice to abandon you.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Here's the problem with essences: they are way too impactful to be time-gated or grindy when almost all of them are last patch content. Unlike AP and leveling Legion artifacts, there really isn't a catch-up mechanic for essences. Only essence that has a catch-up mechanic is Crucible of Flame, and while you aren't given rank 3 for free, the 8.3 progression to obtaining rank 3 of this essence actually feels good. Now, if you're a class that relies on certain essences to function properly or well, then you might start having issues.
    You got it all wrong, if you want to compare something compare essences to legiondaries as they were the only ones missing from equation.
    Tier sets -> azerite gear
    Artifact weapon -> neck
    Legiondaries -> essences

    and those were locked behind gigantic RNG wall.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by agentsi View Post
    I'm sorry you didn't have the same experience. But with bad luck protection, and you playing "hard" for 3 months, then only getting one Legendary? Thats 100% bullshit. Sorry friend. I had a group of guildies/friends. Some were getting 1 a week, but those were the folks that spammed M+ and cleared normal/heroic/mythic raids every week to keep building up the chance. Even most casual players in my guild were getting 1 every 2-3 weeks. So again, you either didn't play hard like you claim, or you weren't really playing at all. My experience, was not isolated to only me.
    Was the same in my guild. And that's what I have heard from other guilds too that I interact with and have friends/old guildies in. People saying they get one legendary in 3 months are flat out lying or did 1 emissary a week and then idling in Dalaran complaining about why they don't get legendaries. Seeing so many misconceptions on how BLP worked and what the best content to do to get legendaries in Legion that doesn't really surprise me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    You got it all wrong, if you want to compare something compare essences to legiondaries as they were the only ones missing from equation.
    Tier sets -> azerite gear
    Artifact weapon -> neck
    Legiondaries -> essences

    and those were locked behind gigantic RNG wall.
    Tier sets -> azerite gear
    Artifact weapon -> neck + essences
    Legiondaries -> Corrupted

    Fixed that for you. It's nice having personal opinions and all that, but at least be honest. To compared Legendaries to Essences isn't only wrong, it's also make zero sense seeing we have corruption that works the same as legendaries. How can you even compare Artifact Weapon to neck only when neck does nothing but let you use "tier-sets"? Logic 101.

    Both are items
    Both are behind RNG WALL as you so gently put it.
    Both got limited amount of pieces you can equip(within reasonable corruption)
    Horde bad, smash monkey. Who is a good monkey? You are!

    Let loot be loot.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    eseence are punishment, u need them because they are a huge deal, and to get ranks u need to farm a lot, heck u need lot of farm to get some of them in first place, or just use the generic one
    Bullshit, every essence except pvp ones are easy to acquire and i dont consider them farming.

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Bullshit, every essence except pvp ones are easy to acquire and i dont consider them farming.
    Well i suppose if you don't consider it farming then it must be so...

    Legit doing same line of quests followed by getting those najatar guardian up is not grind? Some entering old raid at this point to gain isn't an issue? I want to play an alt in a new patch if i wanted to play it in the last patch then i would of. There is no reason at this point to cap people from getting it on alts at all. This expansion is finished.

    As for difference it's simple class design by FAR was much better, ill state this one as my opinion but dungeons were so much better overall. Legendaries gave so many ways of playing your character it was actually amazing, yes the initial 2 patches was awful just gaining them but most expansions first few patches tend to be poor af. Alts were easy to catch up without requiring constant farming of old rep/raids. Gear sets again another way of changing way your char can play this is my opinion aswell but yh. Ofcourse there is also just amount of good looking sets from arena for classes + mage tower with appearance giving you a good reason to play alts.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Tier sets -> azerite gear
    Artifact weapon -> neck + essences
    Legiondaries -> Corrupted

    Fixed that for you. It's nice having personal opinions and all that, but at least be honest. To compared Legendaries to Essences isn't only wrong, it's also make zero sense seeing we have corruption that works the same as legendaries. How can you even compare Artifact Weapon to neck only when neck does nothing but let you use "tier-sets"? Logic 101.

    Both are items
    Both are behind RNG WALL as you so gently put it.
    Both got limited amount of pieces you can equip(within reasonable corruption)
    Nah, corruption is completely different system. New experiment.

    Corruption can simply OCCUR on random item. Legiondaries were static slot static static stats.
    Legiondaries were talents-on-items. Corruption is generic trinket-like-effect.
    RNG acquisition is just another layer of rng on top of item drop rng.

    so if you want some "replacement" then corruption is replacement for titanforging.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chocbear View Post
    Well i suppose if you don't consider it farming then it must be so...

    Legit doing same line of quests followed by getting those najatar guardian up is not grind? Some entering old raid at this point to gain isn't an issue? I want to play an alt in a new patch if i wanted to play it in the last patch then i would of. There is no reason at this point to cap people from getting it on alts at all. This expansion is finished.

    As for difference it's simple class design by FAR was much better, ill state this one as my opinion but dungeons were so much better overall. Legendaries gave so many ways of playing your character it was actually amazing, yes the initial 2 patches was awful just gaining them but most expansions first few patches tend to be poor af. Alts were easy to catch up without requiring constant farming of old rep/raids. Gear sets again another way of changing way your char can play this is my opinion aswell but yh. Ofcourse there is also just amount of good looking sets from arena for classes + mage tower with appearance giving you a good reason to play alts.
    You dont know what is farming if you never farmed leggos in legion.
    Farming is doing EN ToV and NH all on lfr, normal, heroic, mythic for good couple of months.

    Doing revered with a faction for 20-30 minutes daily for 2-3 weeks is not farming at all.

  18. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    They do and have done the whole expansion. So when you change from lets say holy at HoA level 77 you have HoA level 77 when you go prot. Same was in 8.0, 8.1, 8.2 etc. You don't know this?
    Actually, I had a had brain fart, and read 'spec' as 'alt'. And then worte 'spec' myself while still thinking 'alt'. My apologies.

  19. #259
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chocbear View Post
    yes the initial 2 patches was awful just gaining them but most expansions first few patches tend to be poor af.
    MoP first patch specially is best example of how to have a very bad start
    I think MoP first patch is worst first patch in wow history, the dailies grind were wayyyyyyyy too much to do anything that it (and that comes from someone who prefer dailies over WQ system)
    Last edited by sam86; 2020-03-11 at 08:30 PM.
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Nah, corruption is completely different system. New experiment.

    Corruption can simply OCCUR on random item. Legiondaries were static slot static static stats.
    Legiondaries were talents-on-items. Corruption is generic trinket-like-effect.
    RNG acquisition is just another layer of rng on top of item drop rng.

    so if you want some "replacement" then corruption is replacement for titanforging.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You dont know what is farming if you never farmed leggos in legion.
    Farming is doing EN ToV and NH all on lfr, normal, heroic, mythic for good couple of months.

    Doing revered with a faction for 20-30 minutes daily for 2-3 weeks is not farming at all.
    Do not put your definition on things plz.

    "Farming is doing EN ToV and NH all on lfr, normal, heroic, mythic for good couple of months.

    Doing revered with a faction for 20-30 minutes daily for 2-3 weeks is not farming at all. "

    Both are farming.

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