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  1. #401
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Not gonna reply to the others since you are so wrong. But this one is funny indeed, since you can't even see that the Mage Tower and HV/Torghast is the same kind of thing. It's the fundamentals which is the point. For the rest of the system/contents as well. But I didn't really expect you to really want to understand this, but I thought I would give it a try. Mage Tower/HV/Torghast are content that are challenging and depends on both skill and slowly progressing your character. You can't do Mage Tower yet? Let's try in 1 month when you power up through the artifact(which was connected to the mage tower) It's the same for HV and most likely Torghast after how they described it.

    The fundament is built on Legion's iteration of challenging solo content. You can do HV/Torghast solo as well. But now also with a group if you like. And that's the continuation of that particular content. You probably think that we would have gotten HV if Mage Tower was a failure like Islands. Which is false. That's why we get a continuation of that content, but Islands are gone.

    You talk about the neck? What did the neck do? Nothing but something you would grind over and over to learn the same azerite traits over and over. They went out and said that essences are the band-aid for that system. And still you go and say its the correct approach to artifact? You should read this thread, artifact weapon is over and over repeated as the good parts of Legion. Maybe read and learn from it, that your flawed definition of good is just a wrong one and completely scrapped by the devs while they learned from the mistake and made the neck a small scaled artifact weapon.
    It's not the same kind of thing, good lord. When something is fundamentally different in practically ALL of the aspects then it's simply a different feature.

    Going with your logic of progressing character, mage tower/hv/tg is the same as M+. Can't do +15 yet? Progress your character and try again.
    Oh and don't tell me Mythic plus is not soloable becuse it is!

    That fundament has nothing to do with legion iterations. Nothing. They are fundamentally different features.

    And that is percisely why neck is far superior than artifact weapon. And no, you didn't need to grind anything as I never did any grind and still could unlock all major and minor traits no matter what azerite I upgraded. Yes that is correct approach. It would be absolutely perfect if azerite gear did not require any neck level (and it practically didnt).

    No I should not read other people opinions because they don't matter to me at all. Current iteration is definitely the best one for me. Artifact weapon was garbage, that is why it god severely reduced in BfA and doesn't seems like we are getting any artifact in SL which is even better.

    If we have to get artifact -> it should be insignificant so grind doesn't feel mandatory.
    If we don't -> then problem doesn't exist anyways.

  2. #402
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Dungeons in legion were boring meatgrinder. I cannot comprehend why would anyone think legion dungeons were even remotely close to being good, not to mention being better than BfA ones lol.
    how are they bad? i loved them
    maybe u grinded way too hard AP and (of course) u hate them for doing Maw of Souls 1502 daily ?
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  3. #403
    Brewmaster Ermelloth's Avatar
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    What was good in Legion and lacked in BFA, imho, is:

    1. Suramar and all related to it;
    2. Artifact Weapons and Order Halls;
    3. PvP templates

  4. #404
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    how are they bad? i loved them
    maybe u grinded way too hard AP and (of course) u hate them for doing Maw of Souls 1502 daily ?
    Because trash was braindead without any mechanics.

  5. #405
    Immortal FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Apr 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by Ermelloth View Post
    What was good in Legion and lacked in BFA, imho, is:

    1. Suramar and all related to it;
    2. Artifact Weapons and Order Halls;
    3. PvP templates
    IMO, none of it added anything positive to Legion.

    1. Suramar was a crappy blue zone... Blue in color and blue in mood.
    2. Artifact weapons were boring, because you were stuck with the same weapon for an entire expansion and Order Halls didn't add anything an NPC in Dalaran couldn't have done
    3. PvP is the bane on ANY PvE game.
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > MoP > BfA > WoD = WotLK

    My pet collection -->

  6. #406
    Horde player who cares about the story here.

    In Legion the Horde was merely ignored.

    In BFA Horde were the trash mobs everyone was supposed to hate and want dead, even by Horde players.

  7. #407
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    I've long questioned why people think Legion was so good when honestly I found it rather stale.

    I think the reason is actually Warlords of Draenor. When you come after the worst expansion in the game's history, even a stale, milquetoast expansion seems better by comparison. You'll probably see a similar reaction to Shadowlands where "sure it's purely average but after the train wreck that was BFA, this is pretty good!"
    9.0 Speculation Thread #1 Leakbuster

    Finally guessed the expansion right for the first time since MoP.

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  8. #408
    High Overlord Godric's Avatar
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    Jan 2013
    Focus on class identity. Fun as fuck legendaries despite whiners. Wonderful expansion despite Argus.
    Mighty one, never forget.

  9. #409
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Artifact weapons were boring, because you were stuck with the same weapon for an entire expansion
    In this case 99% of weapons is boring, because its just stat stick without any cool abilities or effects.

  10. #410
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Essences, Azerite Armor and Blizzard have proved their Alliance bias beyond any doubts, is what makes BfA bad.
    So your criteria for what makes BfA bad is that you think Blizzard cares more about Alliance than Horde? Damn, life must be simple to be that simple.

  11. #411
    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjub View Post
    Let's not overlook the difference between cool, powerful weapons that you kept all expansion versus... necklaces.
    exactly my man...the entire "vocal" community that influenced BFA through complaints about Legion had an impact...Blizzard wanted their RNG...but not in the form of leggos(i preferred that, a random legendary that massively influenced your rotation and playstyle), instead they gave everyone the no RNG azerite gear(yay all flat buffs to my spells, omg so cool i get to use the same talents and rotation for 2 years) and to top it off no point in raiding for cool set bonus gear, instead we have azerite gear with BETTER flat buffs. BFA blew my mind and made me remember WoD(a well polished turd).

  12. #412
    Scarab Lord Asmodias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    Super funny joke but really only applies to people who were just born yesterday. WoD is still not well received and a lot of people didn't like TBC.
    Every past expansion has people that didn't enjoy it. Those people aren't going away. Overall TBC was received quite well and is still regarded as one of the best expansions WoW has ever had. WoD is received a hell of a lot better now than it was when it launched. Hell, as soon as Legion launched people wanted WoD back.

    So, yes. There are going to be people who feel like an expansion sucked, but post Wrath, the current expansion is ALWAYS the worst.

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  13. #413
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Sep 2010
    Legion was great and gave a lot of uniqueness. The map is one of the best ever in this game, quests were great and the lore going on as well.

    BfA, as I always said, is a filler expansion.

  14. #414
    I am Murloc! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Aug 2017
    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    BfA, as I always said, is a filler expansion.
    Although I agree on the "filler" part, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to be a bad xpac. After all, MoP was also a filler xpac, a time to take the proverbial chill pill after two ongoing apocalypses (Scourge, then DW/Twilight Hammer), and it was a quite decent expansion. BfA would have also been the time to "relax" somewhat after THE (averted) apocalypse, time to fight pirates and more "down to earth" things. But here comes Sylvanas, who felt more of a threat than the Legion ever was. Of course, writers went full retard with their morality lessons, about how war is bad (in a franchise named WARcraft, none the less), and how the right thing to do is to hold hands together while singing kumbaya, under the benevolent gaze of a 18 or so years old. In the meantime, big names such as Aszhara and N'Zoth went sent into the meatgrinder, with little to no care for their respective stories and backgrounds.

    Gameplay wise, everything felt like a downgrade from Legion. We had awesome and cool artifacts, they were exchanged for a bland necklace. We had nice class halls, each with their own class campaign, which were exchanged by GenericShip #2523985. We had fast, exciting gameplay, and we got GCD shoved down our throats, a change that was made to placate PvP'ers, which however hasn't prevented PvP from being all but dead in BfA.

    Classes had been pruned into oblivion in Legion prepatch to make room for artifacts' skills and passives, in BfA we lost those and (in most cases) we got exactly nothing to replace those with. Not only that, classes were pruned even further, in the hopes that even a caveman would be able to play DD specs. We lost class themed sets in exchange of generic armour type sets, which look all ugly af except maybe the warfronts ones.

    Speaking of warfronts... man, what a waste of dev time. I doubt anyone would have ever bothered with them, if it wasn't for the fact that you got top quality (at the time) gear for AFK'ing hardcore. And Islands might have been way more interesting than "gather all mobs and aoe them down fast". There was nothing to explore, you were put on a !#$%ing timer, which killed every sense of exploration.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danuser
    we created a story structure for Sylvanas that, on the surface, echoed many broad strokes of the road Garrosh took (...). These parallels were intentional. But it's within the nuance that we sought to show the story grow and change.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    BFA was about as nuanced as a golf club to the testicles/ovaries.

  15. #415
    For me Legion had better classes, better dungeons (bfa have a few good ones though), better raids and better lore. Sure legion had its flaws but it was way better than bfa.

  16. #416
    I enjoyed the story in Legion far more.

    I enjoyed the artifact system more than Azerite and essences.

    Class halls, artifacts, and campaigns were fun. Gave a reason to level alts.

    Armor and weapons were farrrrr better looking in Legion overall. Reasons to do content for me.

    Classes felt better. BFA went backwards somehow.

    Questing was overall better in Legion. Especially Suramar. It felt more formulaic and bland in BFA.

    BFA honestly was great on paper, but it fell short in pretty much everything in practice, which means most likely they just didn't have enough time to finish it. It needed more iteration. It needed like 3 more months of development time.

    It's also sad they didn't get to do Nazjatar right and had to scrap the 8.3 Nzoth area. Could of been pretty cool.
    Last edited by Mojo03; 2020-05-06 at 12:15 AM.

  17. #417
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
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    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  18. #418
    Scarab Lord Geisl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    BFA honestly was great on paper, but it fell short in pretty much everything in practice, which means most likely they just didn't have enough time to finish it. It needed more iteration. It needed like 3 more months of development time.
    Yup, definitely needed more iteration. Azerite traits should've literally been more impactful than Leggo gold traits, because we're amped by Azeroth. Island Expeditions should've been a loot finding/exploring mini-game - shouldn't even have combat or have the 'vehicle'/'transformation' type combat where you're givin a few abilities 1-4 or w/e to help you navigate an island and find loot. Warfronts should have literally been a WC3 mini-game kind of like how they sorta ported Pokemon in through Pet Battles.

    For comparison, Torghast actually feels good to a lot of players in the alpha precisely because it is emulating roguelikes within its foundation - the base is good and Blizzard just needs to polish it.

    Islands just felt like a 'kill to cap points asap' and warfronts feel like a slow forgone conclusion where again you're mostly just killing shit, but not getting/doing unique enough things aside from that.

    Warfronts should've had spots to build bases/empowered creeps to kill for bonuses/its own mini level up system (say 1-5 or something)/purchaseable items to give you unique effects/more abilities/consumables from specific buildings.

    Islands should've not had combat at all and been about digging around the isle/maybe a treasure detector that emits noise the closer you get etc or if it does have combat then the islands should have few but larger deadlier enemies (worldboss like) keeping hoards. But focus should've been treasure hunting.

    BFA was definitely an example of lots of great ideas, executed poorly, and not given enough time.

  19. #419
    TONS of content
    interesting quest chains
    alot of customization
    M+ was interesting new activity and dungeons design suited it mostly well
    WQ were good enough with auto-grouping

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