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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjub View Post
    Let's not overlook the difference between cool, powerful weapons that you kept all expansion versus... necklaces.
    Honestly, I prefer the necklace. Weapons are the most fun and interesting part of your gear you want to keep replacing. Having your weapon slot "locked" for the whole expansion is... boring. Having a necklace "locked" is boring as well, but at least it's a rather boring slot this time around.

    While the concept of artifact weapons was a nice gimmick for an expansion, I don't want it to return. Upgrading the Artifact with Relics made it a bit less stale, but not by much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransath View Post
    Money laundering, especially prior to his election? I couldn't give a flying fuck.

  2. #22
    Dreadlord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    BFA's story was just bad
    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ace-suggestion

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  3. #23
    People have different opinions, preferences and priorities. What I liked about legion were class order halls, class campaigns, artifacts. In BfA there is just mission table and plenty of useless upgrades. War Campaign is cool but there's not much replayability because it just one story per faction. And the Heart of Azeroth isn't as exciting as artifacts because it doesn't offer you cool class fitting ability nor cool looking appearances. I don't consider BfA bad but it's worse than Legion for me.

    As for World Quests I like the system with emisarries, it is much more superior to dailies becasue you don't have to log in everyday and do them. You can just log in every 3 days or even once a week and do some significant progress.

  4. #24
    Well let me put it this way. In legion I had alts for every class and did the Mage Tower on all specs 36/36 - all of them. Also weapons were cool as fk.

    Yesterday I tried playing on a freshly boosted DK (wanted to gear it up a bit to play dungeons). This toon I leveled in Korak's revenge (classic AV). I have shit gear like 250 ilvl from heirlooms only. I noticed (more like forgot) that you need to have friendly rep for all 3 factions before you can unlock World Quests (yeeeey me). Why is that necessary in 8.3? Dunno, pump those metrics for Activision.

    I try and start the Voldun story. Make it to the camp, get destroyed by any 2-3 wasps in the next quest chain. (Kind of reminds me of original Diablo3 1.03 Inferno difficulty, ACT II for those that have PTSD). I notice that alliance invasion pops up. Literally afk behind other people so i can get the objectives done. Woush got a fresh 370 item.

    Of course my main doesn't have any plate "black empire" BoA loot... all I get is cloth drops. Why weren't they made just slot specific beats me... Try buying some items from the AH. Literally the cheapest items are like 7000+ gold for 370-400 items which are worthless. 430 items are 100-200k LOL. No blacksmithing done on any of my toons either. Takes 50-100k gold to level that up plus expulsom yea fk that.

    Not to mention there are ZERO essences you start with, have to do the cloak questline again. I just quit playing that toon and started age of empires definitive edition instead.

    Why is BFA worse than Legion? Kind of simple if you ask me.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    To me, BfA is almost exactly the same as Legion.

    It's the same focus on world quests. One daily quest with bigger reward etc.

    It's the same focus on M+. The same key system, and endless scaling of dungeons in a "modern" GOGOGO AoE fashion.

    It's the same Raiding system. 4 difficulties. LFR, Normal, Heroic and Mythic.

    It's the same questing system.

    It's the same AP grind.

    It's the same Titanforging system.

    It's actually a bit BETTER system than the "no gear should matter in PvP", "100% random garbage ilvl PvP gear" PvP system we had in Legion.

    To me, it seems like the only reason people liked Legion was because of the transmogs on your cool weapons. And people seem salty that BfA don't have Class sets (another transmog argument). Is it really this easy to make you enjoy an expansion? Cool transmogs = good expansion?
    Ferrari is exactly the same as Yugo, it have 4wheels, body, engine, steering wheel, how come people like Ferrari more than Yugo?

  6. #26
    Legion was somewhat innovative and the content it delivered was a lot better.
    For me what really killed BFA was class design which fell flat on face after artifact nodes removal and legendaries not being usable, a lot of classes were remade into Legion to coexist with artifacts and legendaries so the class was designed around them I feel like devs forgot that there will be expansion after because BFA handled the lack of these additions very badly.
    When it comes to content, Island expeditions and Warfronts are a lot worse in comparism to Legion's Class order hall and Mythic + introduction. Story wise Legion was superior as well, Suramar and it's quest line was astonishing and it really felt like Blizzard gave a soul into Legion unlike in BFA which tried to be Legion 2.0 but it ended up being Legion 0.5. I'm not saying Legion was perfect, legendary RNG and the terrible titanforging was really bad

  7. #27
    There are legitimate upsides in some systems, that much is true, but as usual with wow expansions (and pretty much everything in the world) it's mostly about the so called general consensus, otherwise called "a bandwagon" that people are jumping on. One major thing that Legion has over BfA is that all of these systems were new back then, and in BfA they feel regurgitated.

    Once something becomes a prevalent opinion, it's easy to take it as your own because it doesn't require that much effort and independent thinking.

    The family of windows operating systems is actually a very similar case to wow expansions. There are some systems people hate (as a general consensus) and some systems that people love (as a general consensus). Sure, there are some minor differences between them and some aspects that are better in one iteration than the other, but otherwise it's a "feeling discussion" rather than "merits discussion". Everyone hated Windows Millenium (supposedly very buggy), Vista (mostly because of the new UAC system) and 8 (because of the default option of the new desktop). All of these are really minor things, that most people would either never come across, or they could easily toggle them to their preference, but these things served as basis to ridicule those systems forever. I remember making fun of other kids in the neighborhood who had Windows Millenium because back then it was considered a sign of complete digital ineptitude to own one.

  8. #28
    Immortal callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Legion story was pretty enjoyable. Suramar was, imo, amazing.

  9. #29
    Honestly, people really loved there favorite artifact. Druids got a ton of customization through the artifact so my main ended up being my druid. The class halls and artifacts gave alts a bit more replayablity . Replayablity counts for alot for me. At the very least near the end of the expansion I leveled one of each class (minus the shaman. Never got into them). BFA wise I struggled to level 2 normally. Got to more two 120 through pvp of all things. If I would rather take forever to level an alt then to do the main story again, it failed.

    Story wise we just came off time traveling that no one saw coming because no one read the books. No one cared. Anything was better and we were happy with that anything. That said, BFA seems like blizzard gave up on two main story lines halfway. The faction war felt like it was missing parts in the middle and then ended early. The old god mess felt like it started late and just kinda happened.
    Last edited by minndis; 2020-03-09 at 09:55 AM. Reason: can't type at 6am

  10. #30
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    People dislike the story and some of the new features like warfronts or Expeditions. Maybe they expected something "biggerer and betterer". And all in all I found the artifact weapons and the skins to unlock 10 times more interesting and engaging than the HoA.

    Also maybe they hoped some systems that they disliked in Legion (as you listed them) would change or improve, but getting them again, just makes ppl dislike them even more.

    But don't be fooled. At no time from 2008-2020 on this forum did I see an abundance of topics praising anything about WoW.

    This forum likes to wallow in misery when it comes to thread titles and topics (inside the threads however you will get the occasional positive post)

  11. #31
    Legion had so much more content. Alone that you had 12 unique class halls and the corresponding quests (including unique class mounts) made playing all 12 classes worthwhile. In BfA you can experience the story with two - a horde and an alliance - char, and even that stopped in the previous patch. And the mage tower also gave more reason to do them. Also Legion added a new class.

    Raids had a usefull place in the gear progression system thanks to tier sets. In BfA you cannot tell people apart who raid (even cutting edge) or who ran one max level m+ dungeon per week for months.

    The artifact weapon was straight forward, every artifact power you spent lead to an improvment. For the vast majority of BfA the AP system was just to timegate your azerite pieces, and even the lackluster progression system on the heart in the last two patches is not in the slightest comparable to the weapon.

    The randomness of the Legion legandaries was atrocious, but in the last patches you could farm all of them for your spec within a few weeks. The azerite armor system is just as bad and random as it was at the beginning. Many specs still have azerite traits that are make or break (going from a 430 nazjatar chest with ideal traits to a 475 with bad traits was a 500 dps increase on my hunter for example), and there is still no way of farming them. They are timegated behind currency farm, with limited supply.

    Perfectly working systems like the class hall missions were reduced to that minimal follower missions with tiny progression system that have almost no impact on the gameplay.

    The gameplay felt much more dynamic for many specs, the GCD change for sure is to blame here as well as some missing skills that were on your weapon and were removed without any adequate compensation.

    Playing alts was much more accessible in the last patch(es) than it is now. Catching up AP was something that came along just by playing the game, and the legendaries were farmable by your main (or other chars) or you could no-live them in a few weeks. Currently AP is still something you can get simply by playing the game, but essences still requires you to farm certain content and azerite pieces are random (with the chance of being terrible) or require saving for months.
    And then finally you also have the cloak system that requires you to farm specific currency and do the visions, which depending on the step you're on are pretty time consuming. And since corruption currently is the strongest gear progression (far beyond itemlevel) and integral part of the gameplay (with receiveing a 100% corrupted piece out of the weekly chest) there is no reasonable way to say "fuck it" for alts.
    Last edited by Puri; 2020-03-09 at 10:01 AM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    People dislike the story and some of the new features like warfronts or Expeditions. Maybe they expected something "biggerer and betterer". And all in all I found the artifact weapons and the skins to unlock 10 times more interesting and engaging than the HoA.
    I think they wanted warfronts to originally be a pvp game mode but couldn't figure it out. They are so amazingly easy now that they do not have a fail state.

  13. #33
    Legion was very good for some, like the Paladins for example, who got their dream ashbringer ..

    but for the warriors for example ... it was a rather painful expansion, their main representative, varian, died.And above, they, not only did not obtain shalamayne but also gave them artifact weapons that were not up to par, tb there was a problem with the DK, they did not get the frost agony, their other artifacts were not up to par ... something similar happened with the rogue (he did not get the maiev weapon), and of course, I must remember that the DH did not they obtained azzinoth, but some gujas. (and also, it would have been a must "azzinoth with improved graphic texture") that would have been the icing on the expansion, but as always blizzard is wrong, yes, paladins and mages always They are favored.

    therefore, I don't think legion was such a good expansion. One point in its favor was the wizard tower that rewarded with new artifact skins. + 1 to that. I think the artifacts worked well, and in the future they could do something similar, with different artifacts of course, but better designed according to class ... you can not give good things to a class, and other mediocre things ...

  14. #34
    I don't think BFA is bad, but I liked Legion better.

    Incentive to play alts is a big difference. Unique artifact skins, good looking sets for transmog, class mounts, and class hall story lines. None of these exist in BFA and the gear pretty much all around, short of Warfronts, is pretty trash looking. These are things that get me to log in, since I don't really care about the gear hamster wheel.

    In fact its actually pretty annoying having alts in BFA since you basically just have to redo everything redundantly for the same rewards you've already gotten on your main.

    Classes also just don't feel as rich as they did in Legion. Some people didn't like the class changes in Legion, but I did and BFA just feels like a worse version of what we already had in Legion.

    Also the questing in BFA is just flat out pretty bad. It's the first expansion that actually didn't make good improvements on questing. They feel very formulaic and bland, not to mention the story just isn't good. I flat out have zero desire to level any alts though it. Not having a Suramar-like zone in BFA is also noticable.

  15. #35
    For me BFA is 1/10 while Legion is a modest 6/10.
    This topic has been beaten to death over the past months and months so you might find it easier to look up those past threads.

    Two top mistakes of BFA for me are gutted/neutered/overpruned/boring/oversimplified classes and all the various expansion features (azerite armor system, warfronts, island expeditions...) that are boring and dead on arrival.
    It does not help that BFA story is utter nonsense and significantly worse than any previous expansion story, and the fact that max level solo story/questing content (something similar to Suramar, class order halls...) is basically non existent.
    Leveling alts also completely sucks because you have only the 3 zones to level through and only 4 dungeons to play while leveling (compared to like 10 available at 120).

    IMHO BFA brought nothing good and has introduced a lot of bad and has ruined/removed a lot of stuff from previous expansions that i liked.
    Last edited by Aleksej89; 2020-03-09 at 10:20 AM.
    BfA = second worst product ever made by Blizzard.
    War3 Reforged took the title for worst product.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Alaenore View Post
    Neither did Bfa for most of the time, and yet you heard the same complaints
    That's because azerite gear was such a shitty system that they panic added essences as a bandaid because they knew they were going to abandon the expansion early once they realized what a shit state BFA was in.

  17. #37
    No Corruption
    7.3 was a fully fleshed out patch, 8.3 was not
    No essences
    No warfronts and No islands (both of BfA's major systems failed)
    Story was much better
    No azerite gear
    BfA leveling was shit and made your character weaker
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    The only lies here are the bullshit coming from you. RBG appears to be immortal.

  18. #38
    Legion was the best expansion after Wotlk, get over with, and even if you don't agree don't agree don't bash a good expansion or comparing to bfa, they are nothing alike besides systems taking from legion getting just annoying and disgusting in bfa.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Derpleton View Post
    No Corruption
    7.3 was a fully fleshed out patch, 8.3 was not
    No essences
    No warfronts and No islands (both of BfA's major systems failed)
    Story was much better
    No azerite gear
    BfA leveling was shit and made your character weaker
    And legendaries felt good once you got them. And RNG on getting wasn't so bad honestly, i even got my bis on first tries. People love to exagerate and say wuee legendaries were so bad. Dude, everything you did you could get a legendary, and when you did it was the best feeling ever! Azerite never gives me that feeling!

  19. #39
    Legion introduced a lot of new stuff/systems. The very fact that they were new made them interesting.

    New Class
    Mythic Plus for Dungeons
    World Quests + Emissaries
    Artifact Weapons (unique for every single spec)
    Class Halls (unique for every class)
    Non-linear questing(you pick the order of the zones you level in)
    PvP Prestige Ranks + rewards
    Legiondaries(which, IMO, was a failure overall)
    Mage Tower
    Allied Races(even tho they required pre-purchasing BFA, I still consider them Legion feat, given that the lore of the races was entirely Legion-centered and so were the requirements for their unlocking).
    +
    Story and Involvement, all around you could see important(even some Legendary) Lore figures working with you, and even recruit them as followers.

    Now Battle For Azeroth continued with most of these systems, but instead of improving them, it actually somehow made some of them worse.

    New Allied races - that turned out Ok.

    Mythic Plus for Dungeons - kept the same level, no complaints.

    World Quests - same again, no complaints.

    Artifact Gear- that one is questionable, Blizzard did not get rid of the grind for AP that most of the playerbase hated, even screwed it more at some point(I remember at the start, when people couldn't use the inner Azerite Traits, because their neck wasn't high enough level). The good thing is, that you now have to gather AP for only one item instead of 2-4(depending on how many specs the class has), the bad thing was that the Traits were still poorly balanced between themselves. Another minus is that you cannot customize the appearance of your neck the way you did with the weapons. Not to forget the Essences and Alts. So overall for me its a step down compared to Legion.

    Class Halls- Replaced with War Campaign, which is not even close in quality, we get 2(Horde and Alliance) instead of 12. Overall a big step down.

    Questing - Basically you were tied to the 3 zones of your faction + 3 mini campaigns in the enemy faction's zones. IMO, a little step down compared to Legion, but nothing serious.

    PvP Prestige - They made it account wide(good) with the very same rewards from Legion(bad).

    Legiondaries - Removed them entirely, which is great.

    Mage Tower- We got Horrific Visions instead, which doesn't give every single spec a new and unique transmog, but can drop gear instead, so it evens it out, IMO.

    Something else that BFA did different than Legion, is that it also cut the number of armor appearances available to the players. In every other expansion we had different one for each class every tier, now we have one for every armor type - DKs, Warriors and Paladins share one, etc. Which is a HUGE letdown.

    Island Expeditions- Looked great on paper, but in reality got really boring, really fast. It's just the scenarios we had since MOP, with a twist. They have many pets/mounts/transmogs tied to them tho, which is nice, overall.

    Warfronts- They are nothing like what they were announced to be. We were supposed to participate in a mix of an old school RTS kind of gameplay with some M+ elemets, something completely new. Instead it ended up being raid-wide scenarios from MOP. For one of the main selling points of the expansion, it's absolutely not worth it.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by UndedoKoleda View Post
    Legion introduced a lot of new stuff/systems. The very fact that they were new made them interesting.

    New Class
    Mythic Plus for Dungeons
    World Quests + Emissaries
    Artifact Weapons (unique for every single spec)
    Class Halls (unique for every class)
    Non-linear questing(you pick the order of the zones you level in)
    PvP Prestige Ranks + rewards
    Legiondaries(which, IMO, was a failure overall)
    Mage Tower
    Allied Races(even tho they required pre-purchasing BFA, I still consider them Legion feat, given that the lore of the races was entirely Legion-centered and so were the requirements for their unlocking).
    +
    Story and Involvement, all around you could see important(even some Legendary) Lore figures working with you, and even recruit them as followers.

    Now Battle For Azeroth continued with most of these systems, but instead of improving them, it actually somehow made some of them worse.

    New Allied races - that turned out Ok.

    Mythic Plus for Dungeons - kept the same level, no complaints.

    World Quests - same again, no complaints.

    Artifact Gear- that one is questionable, Blizzard did not get rid of the grind for AP that most of the playerbase hated, even screwed it more at some point(I remember at the start, when people couldn't use the inner Azerite Traits, because their neck wasn't high enough level). The good thing is, that you now have to gather AP for only one item instead of 2-4(depending on how many specs the class has), the bad thing was that the Traits were still poorly balanced between themselves. Another minus is that you cannot customize the appearance of your neck the way you did with the weapons. Not to forget the Essences and Alts. So overall for me its a step down compared to Legion.

    Class Halls- Replaced with War Campaign, which is not even close in quality, we get 2(Horde and Alliance) instead of 12. Overall a big step down.

    Questing - Basically you were tied to the 3 zones of your faction + 3 mini campaigns in the enemy faction's zones. IMO, a little step down compared to Legion, but nothing serious.

    PvP Prestige - They made it account wide(good) with the very same rewards from Legion(bad).

    Legiondaries - Removed them entirely, which is great.

    Mage Tower- We got Horrific Visions instead, which doesn't give every single spec a new and unique transmog, but can drop gear instead, so it evens it out, IMO.

    Something else that BFA did different than Legion, is that it also cut the number of armor appearances available to the players. In every other expansion we had different one for each class every tier, now we have one for every armor type - DKs, Warriors and Paladins share one, etc. Which is a HUGE letdown.

    Island Expeditions- Looked great on paper, but in reality got really boring, really fast. It's just the scenarios we had since MOP, with a twist. They have many pets/mounts/transmogs tied to them tho, which is nice, overall.

    Warfronts- They are nothing like what they were announced to be. We were supposed to participate in a mix of an old school RTS kind of gameplay with some M+ elemets, something completely new. Instead it ended up being raid-wide scenarios from MOP. For one of the main selling points of the expansion, it's absolutely not worth it.
    Totally agree. Fully, really. All you said.

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