What exactly makes some people say Legion was good but BfA is bad?

[Doctor Funkenstein]

What's embarrassing is ranting on and calling people who don't share the same opinion with you "dim-witted ignoramuses of the world". There are better way to express your dislike of something than insulting the players.

It's always nice when someone proves they can't read what someone actually wrote, only what they wanted to read.

[Candy Cough]

Story was better.
No Azerite armor.
No Essences.
No Corruptions.

How was the story better Lmao

Biggest legion invasion ever!! And all they can do is infect a tauren tribe and a lunatic vrykul. «kingdoms will burn!»
Which one?

They completely wasted Kiljaeden

Suddenly a legion that is capable of fighting thousands of wars at once and can transcend all realities lose to a single spaceship filled with like 500 people max on their own homeworld

Greymane gets no consequences for attenpting to assasinating the warchief during peace time, because the alliance cant do anything wrong

Illidan redeemed for some reason even thiugh he basically killed all life in zangarmarsh, supported the fel horde that forced maghar into taking the blood, allying with demons and giving teron gorefiend refuge

Essences and corrupted gear didnt exist the entire expansion, and for the record azerite armor is BETTER than artifacts. You arent fucked if you forget to play for a couple of weeks because youd be behind in artifact research

[Relapses]

If you read my comment again... carefully... with a bit more attention....

You would see that I did say that you "only" had to grind AP and pray for "correct" legendary item. Which was RETARDED. But still, it was waaaay less "chores" for alt back then than it is the case right now in BFA.

Once again, you're dismissing one of Legion's biggest issues with the word "only." An issue that was so big it caused myself (and a few of my friends) to shelve the game completely. That's a bit disingenuous.

[agentsi]

I played pretty hard for the first 3 months and only got one of the worst legendaries in the game. Youre experience wasnt everyones, especially not mine.

I'm sorry you didn't have the same experience. But with bad luck protection, and you playing "hard" for 3 months, then only getting one Legendary? Thats 100% bullshit. Sorry friend. I had a group of guildies/friends. Some were getting 1 a week, but those were the folks that spammed M+ and cleared normal/heroic/mythic raids every week to keep building up the chance. Even most casual players in my guild were getting 1 every 2-3 weeks. So again, you either didn't play hard like you claim, or you weren't really playing at all. My experience, was not isolated to only me.

[Dreen]

agree with what most people say
The fact that my Class went from fun & fast to play, to slow clunky and boring is what makes all the other systems worse

[kaminaris]

the AP research didn't cost much, not to mention it stack? I mean they unlock (timegate) each week new upgrade in research, so if u start ur alt 10 weeks later than ur main, u can grind AP (it was AP for it right?) and research the 10 weeks in same time instead of wait for 10 full weeks like ur main did
The punishment is nowhere as bad as essence

Essences are not punishment at all, just do it and have it. It was punishing in legion to even go offspec not to mention to play alts lol.

[Doffen]

AP doesn't go for all your spec, unless they changed this in the last week. It just get a big boost from the quests and levels really quick (to a point) now.

They do and have done the whole expansion. So when you change from lets say holy at HoA level 77 you have HoA level 77 when you go prot. Same was in 8.0, 8.1, 8.2 etc. You don't know this?

[exochaft]

Essences are not punishment at all, just do it and have it. It was punishing in legion to even go offspec not to mention to play alts lol.

Here's the problem with essences: they are way too impactful to be time-gated or grindy when almost all of them are last patch content. Unlike AP and leveling Legion artifacts, there really isn't a catch-up mechanic for essences. Only essence that has a catch-up mechanic is Crucible of Flame, and while you aren't given rank 3 for free, the 8.3 progression to obtaining rank 3 of this essence actually feels good. Now, if you're a class that relies on certain essences to function properly or well, then you might start having issues.

One essence that I've not bothered to grind on my alts is BotE and CnS. I've already obtained rank 4 of both on my main, and after grinding 100k honor and ranking in arenas I'm in no mood to grind 30k more honor and grind arenas on all my alts. This is partly why I was a fan of having account-wide access to essences if you've unlocked rank 4 of an essence on on character, as in the case of BotE I had already put in the work to get rank 3 of the essence three times already. At this point in the expansion, the essence system needs a catch-up mechanic along the lines of Crucible of Flames or even Vision of Perfection. The way most essences are being handled now would be like having your Azerite neckpiece not automatically ding to 50 during the essence questline or not having AK account-wide: pointlessly longer grinding than it needs to be at this stage of the expansion.

As a parallel to Legion, all that extra work and dedication I had on my main did eventually transfer to my alts as there were systems in place that allowed my main to help my alt's power progression. For example, if you had all your legendaries for your class, you could start getting BoA tokens for your alts. Even the legendary vendor was added eventually. Even without my main's help, there was the 4 legendary higher droprate for chars to assist in getting what you needed. All this being said, there were not nearly as many grinds in Legion tied to your character's power as there are in BfA, and Legion had more in place to allow players/alts to catch up over time and was much more deterministic than random (especially towards the end). Heck, I've had to spend way more time dedicated to my main this expansion than last to maintain my power.

[Specialka]

Nope it wasn't shit. I had all chars with leggos, about 6 chars with it, you had all the expansion to try get them, as i said you're all exaggerated with leggos. Wasn't hard to get, you had all the time in the world to get, you would get it on everything you did on game, chests, rares, weekly chests, raids, dungeons. What do you have in bfa? Titan residuum, weekly chest that barely contains anything, raids that you do for weeks and you get gold, people still farming razor coral since EP, essences, you do assaults and you have a chance to have gear + chance of becoming corrupted, i got nothing yet in any assaults, i barely get gear on visions too and corrupted. Exaggerated when saying leggos is shit. I will repeat you had all the time in the world, your rng was just bad enough.

Well, I have Infinite star 3 and 2 and 1, void echo and so on. Corruption system is so nicely implement. Just your rng that is bad enough.

See what I did here?

Sorry to break it up to you but the implementation of leggos in Legion was shit. Was any proof? In SL, you will be able to target which legendary you want.

[sam86]

Essences are not punishment at all, just do it and have it. It was punishing in legion to even go offspec not to mention to play alts lol.

eseence are punishment, u need them because they are a huge deal, and to get ranks u need to farm a lot, heck u need lot of farm to get some of them in first place, or just use the generic one
legion in early days because of AP grind were punish to offspec, but not alts, it was (ironic) easy to lvl a solo spec on any class than to lvl 2 spec on same class (because of the massive early AP tokens u get from lot of 1 shot quests), not to mention due to how legendaries drop i have a friend who had a maxed mage with raid gear but had his 2 legendary drops total sh8t that he flat out gave up on mage and rerolled retardin to have a better shot at legendary gear

They do and have done the whole expansion. So when you change from lets say holy at HoA level 77 you have HoA level 77 when you go prot. Same was in 8.0, 8.1, 8.2 etc. You don't know this?

he probably mean the gear, the gear doesn't respec when u change spec, so u have to pick traits that fit ur main spec and farm gear for off spec
in early days i used my gear for protection, but when i discovered i solo a lot i just made it for general traits even if they are subpar

[Doffen]

he probably mean the gear, the gear doesn't respec when u change spec, so u have to pick traits that fit ur main spec and farm gear for off spec
in early days i used my gear for protection, but when i discovered i solo a lot i just made it for general traits even if they are subpar

That could be but that's on the other poster! Though reading it again it strikes me that the poster actually means that AP is different and you have to regrind the AP which is not true and have not been true in the whole expansion.

And yeah, it requires you to have different sets. Which haven't been a big issue lately. I hate it when I get Azerite Armor, its boring and I have more than enough of it.

[sam86]

That could be but that's on the other poster! Though reading it again it strikes me that the poster actually means that AP is different and you have to regrind the AP which is not true and have not been true in the whole expansion.

And yeah, it requires you to have different sets. Which haven't been a big issue lately. I hate it when I get Azerite Armor, its boring and I have more than enough of it.

due to legion i was sure that it was a bug, and had my rl friend confirm to me it isn't a bug and blizz actually made azerite gear stuck to same traits regardless of ur spec
which make them working for any spec (stats-wise) in first place useless, not to mention why would they do that, when they literally allowed us to pick traits we want for each spec in legion just last great exp?

[This One Time At Bandcamp]

People always recall the past as being better than the present.
I enjoyed Legion, atleast the majority of it.. But I don't think it was much better than BfA.

[Orby]

The onyl thing that sucked about Legion was the fact that nothing moved on with you by the time BfA came out, all the stuff you worked for completely deleted, lile making a culture of art and then some dude melting it back down and telling your start over. Bfa is going to be the same.

But while it was going Legion was an awesome expansion.

[Doffen]

Nope it wasn't shit. I had all chars with leggos, about 6 chars with it, you had all the expansion to try get them, as i said you're all exaggerated with leggos. Wasn't hard to get, you had all the time in the world to get, you would get it on everything you did on game, chests, rares, weekly chests, raids, dungeons. What do you have in bfa? Titan residuum, weekly chest that barely contains anything, raids that you do for weeks and you get gold, people still farming razor coral since EP, essences, you do assaults and you have a chance to have gear + chance of becoming corrupted, i got nothing yet in any assaults, i barely get gear on visions too and corrupted. Exaggerated when saying leggos is shit. I will repeat you had all the time in the world, your rng was just bad enough.

Loved legiondairies. I used 2.5 months on my main to get all legendaries for my spec in Legion(from middle of november 2016). It is gone almost 2 months now with something that is more easily grindable, but have yet to see Infinite Stars on my main. Every time I ask someone what content they did to get legendaries the answer is mostly that they did a raid and emissaries and then they still proceed to complain that they didn't get legendaries. Which is hilarious in itself. Idling in Dalaran didn't get you legendaries? Shocker.

Legendaries was only bad the first 3 months of Legion because of the hard cap. After that you got legendaries once a week. When Nighthold came out the issues was over. They were far better balanced and you got so much content you could do that could trigger the bad luck protection(BLP). Every raider with some respect for him/herself had all the leggos for his main spec and at least some for the mainspecs by Nighthold. Not to mention several was class-wide. Got BiS for mainspec within 6 legendaries? Swap lootspec and have legendaries thrown after you since there was catch-up BLP.

RNG is RNG. Anyone who say corruption is better are flat out lying. With legendaries you would get what you wanted eventually. Doesn't help it is more likely to get the corruption you want now. How many different corruptions can you get now? 50? 60? You can end up doing BfA for 10 years without seeing the one you want. Wasn't the case with Legendaries because of BLP. Do the content and you had them eventually. I see people say they quit the game for not getting their BiS within a couple of months in Legion. How sad is it to stop playing a game like WoW just because you had bad RNG which eventually would bring you those BiS legendaries. Do I stop playing WoW just because I don't get Infinite Stars on my main? That would be insane.

[Relapses]

RNG is RNG. Anyone who say corruption is better are flat out lying. With legendaries you would get what you wanted eventually. Doesn't help it is more likely to get the corruption you want now. How many different corruptions can you get now? 50? 60? You can end up doing BfA for 10 years without seeing the one you want. Wasn't the case with Legendaries because of BLP. Do the content and you had them eventually. I see people say they quit the game for not getting their BiS within a couple of months in Legion. How sad is it to stop playing a game like WoW just because you had bad RNG which eventually would bring you those BiS legendaries. Do I stop playing WoW just because I don't get Infinite Stars on my main? That would be insane.

This argument greatly exaggerates the value of BLP. There were people who didn't get their BiS Legendary until Antorus even with BLP. That's an extremely demotivating experience. "Just play more" is a terrible excuse when you have absolutely no control over what the game gives you. The amount of power baked into certain Legendaries didn't help matters. It was a terrible system, there's no amount of argumentation which can be made in favor of it.

That said, I understand some of the comparisons to Corrupted gear because it, like Legiondaries, suffers from a lack of deterministic acquisition methods. I don't know if I'd go so far to say that Legiondaries were better simply because "you'd eventually get what you want" because the acquisition rates of Corrupted gear is far higher (even with BLP taken into account). The feeling of getting a shitty Legiondary pales in comparison to getting a shitty Corrupted piece. (Especially since you can cleanse Corrupted gear and if the piece was an upgrade, it's still an upgrade.)

[OokOok]

Nothing at all, BFA is new, Legion is the last expansions. When the next expansion comes out the cycle will repeat. It's WoW, when there's something worse in the eyes of the players, the previous expansion suddenly becomes amazing. I promise if you scrolled through posts of people slamming BFA and praising Legion, they were saying how crap Legion was 2 years ago.

I never think an expansion is bad, it has bad aspects of course but that's only because the aspects I dislike were placed in to appease others who enjoy that part of the game. Like Battlepets, or World quests, or the dailies on the islands they always do like broken shore/argus/Nazjatar. Legion had some pretty solid raid encounters(yes a lot of them were ruined by the concept of stacking rogues, however since none of us are in top guilds we didn't do that, so we don't need to cry or rant about it) My guild had 2 rogues for Mythic KJ and it was a solid fight, same with Avatar.

[Eninya]

Azerite system completely killed BfA for me.

Legion was heavy grinding and RNG for legendaries, but by Nighthold there was a good chance you had the legendaries you needed/wanted (though EN was rough not having the ones you really needed).

Battle for Azeroth?

It was so fucking stupid trying to grind for gear. See, we HAD to have a certain combination of traits to perform well, or to even fix our rotations in some cases. In the case of me as a warrior, it was shitty walking around with gear as many as 40 ilvls higher, but it had dog shit traits. It was unusable until I acquired new pieces elsewhere that had those traits to make up for it. The entire system of doing this Tetris of Azerite Traits was ludicrous, especially if an entire gear sets of 20+ ilvls difference was actually inferior because I was missing those core traits. I wasn't much into PvP in BfA, but it was alright, I guess.

Anyway, I quit after Battle for Dazar'alor, even though I never technically defeated Jaina (a bunch of 7% wipes pre-nerfs, so I'd seen the fight).

[Doffen]

This argument greatly exaggerates the value of BLP. There were people who didn't get their BiS Legendary until Antorus even with BLP. That's an extremely demotivating experience. "Just play more" is a terrible excuse when you have absolutely no control over what the game gives you. The amount of power baked into certain Legendaries didn't help matters. It was a terrible system, there's no amount of argumentation which can be made in favor of it.

Then those players(you?) didn't do the content provided to you. A terrible system is just your opinion, I think the acquisition was okay, but the feeling of getting legendaries was great, far greater than getting a good corruption. Because legendaries could do something with your gamestyle, while every corruption will give you the same, more shit to dodge. We just had a talk in the guild not long ago and we talked about how we miss legendaries and the feeling of it waiting for us behind every m+, raidboss, emissary, even rare mobs out in the world. A huge misconception was that Emissary had the highest chance of giving you legendaries. LFR had a far higher chance and people did not know this. And from 7.2 you could buy relinquished which had a chance to give you legendary in that particular slot. Starting from greatest to lowest chance: Weekly Chest->Raids->dungeons->emissary->rare mobs.

BLP was great, far greater than you pretend it to be. If you didn't get it before Antorus you either played 2 hours a week or sat in Dalaran not doing shit while you could have gone out and done dungeons, raids, previous raids even for that matter. I did EN while Nighthold was current but when ToS came out I didn't have to do that anymore because I was decked in Legendaries, on several alts too.

- - - Updated - - -

Legion was heavy grinding and RNG for legendaries, but by Nighthold there was a good chance you had the legendaries you needed/wanted (though EN was rough not having the ones you really needed).

Yeah, this is my conclusion too. It sucked in EN, no doubt. But when they removed that Hard cap, where people already should have gotten 8-10 but was stuck with 4, was the thing that "released" the legendary system I got used to. A leggo once a week kind of thing.

[VinceVega]

I mean, it seems you purposely left the best bit about Legion out of your rant.

The class focused stories, and quests surrounding those - That's why a lot of people liked Legion.

But if your the kind of person that skips every cutscene and just zooms through everything, then yeah, you wouldn't have enjoyed it as much. Also it was a very alt-friendly expansion.

Very alt friendly is a bit of a stretch isn't it.... Legion was the first Addon which made Twinking harder. By a longshot