What exactly makes some people say Legion was good but BfA is bad?

[Jester Joe]

This argument greatly exaggerates the value of BLP. There were people who didn't get their BiS Legendary until Antorus even with BLP. That's an extremely demotivating experience. "Just play more" is a terrible excuse when you have absolutely no control over what the game gives you. The amount of power baked into certain Legendaries didn't help matters. It was a terrible system, there's no amount of argumentation which can be made in favor of it.

There's no way they didn't get their BiS legendary until Antorus unless it was a newer toon.

I was playing my paladin then and I was working on getting off spec legendaries even for Holy and I don't play Holy, and refuse to.

The only other situation I could see was stuff like the Soul of the legendary rings, since those were added with 7.2.5 (according to Wowhead).

[blankfaced]

Essences, island loot and now corruption.

There just weren't as many glaring issues. I just came back, and coming back to legion was such a smoother experience. I have to farm all these essences still. It's daunting. And now there's a cloak i have to level up too?! And is it really going to be running the same shadow Stormwind over and over?

I think they went too far in the other direction with end game player progression. There's just too much to have to level up and "farm".

[Rogalicus]

Legion was horseshit, BfA cut out parts of class toolkit (Artifacts) and doubled down on the worst decisions of Legion.

[Daymanmb]

I'm sorry you didn't have the same experience. But with bad luck protection, and you playing "hard" for 3 months, then only getting one Legendary? Thats 100% bullshit. Sorry friend. I had a group of guildies/friends. Some were getting 1 a week, but those were the folks that spammed M+ and cleared normal/heroic/mythic raids every week to keep building up the chance. Even most casual players in my guild were getting 1 every 2-3 weeks. So again, you either didn't play hard like you claim, or you weren't really playing at all. My experience, was not isolated to only me.

Yeh, you dont know what youre talking about.

[kaminaris]

Here's the problem with essences: they are way too impactful to be time-gated or grindy when almost all of them are last patch content. Unlike AP and leveling Legion artifacts, there really isn't a catch-up mechanic for essences. Only essence that has a catch-up mechanic is Crucible of Flame, and while you aren't given rank 3 for free, the 8.3 progression to obtaining rank 3 of this essence actually feels good. Now, if you're a class that relies on certain essences to function properly or well, then you might start having issues.

You got it all wrong, if you want to compare something compare essences to legiondaries as they were the only ones missing from equation.
Tier sets -> azerite gear
Artifact weapon -> neck
Legiondaries -> essences

and those were locked behind gigantic RNG wall.

[Doffen]

I'm sorry you didn't have the same experience. But with bad luck protection, and you playing "hard" for 3 months, then only getting one Legendary? Thats 100% bullshit. Sorry friend. I had a group of guildies/friends. Some were getting 1 a week, but those were the folks that spammed M+ and cleared normal/heroic/mythic raids every week to keep building up the chance. Even most casual players in my guild were getting 1 every 2-3 weeks. So again, you either didn't play hard like you claim, or you weren't really playing at all. My experience, was not isolated to only me.

Was the same in my guild. And that's what I have heard from other guilds too that I interact with and have friends/old guildies in. People saying they get one legendary in 3 months are flat out lying or did 1 emissary a week and then idling in Dalaran complaining about why they don't get legendaries. Seeing so many misconceptions on how BLP worked and what the best content to do to get legendaries in Legion that doesn't really surprise me.

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You got it all wrong, if you want to compare something compare essences to legiondaries as they were the only ones missing from equation.
Tier sets -> azerite gear
Artifact weapon -> neck
Legiondaries -> essences

and those were locked behind gigantic RNG wall.

Tier sets -> azerite gear
Artifact weapon -> neck + essences
Legiondaries -> Corrupted

Fixed that for you. It's nice having personal opinions and all that, but at least be honest. To compared Legendaries to Essences isn't only wrong, it's also make zero sense seeing we have corruption that works the same as legendaries. How can you even compare Artifact Weapon to neck only when neck does nothing but let you use "tier-sets"? Logic 101.

Both are items
Both are behind RNG WALL as you so gently put it.
Both got limited amount of pieces you can equip(within reasonable corruption)

[kaminaris]

eseence are punishment, u need them because they are a huge deal, and to get ranks u need to farm a lot, heck u need lot of farm to get some of them in first place, or just use the generic one

Bullshit, every essence except pvp ones are easy to acquire and i dont consider them farming.

[chocbear]

Bullshit, every essence except pvp ones are easy to acquire and i dont consider them farming.

Well i suppose if you don't consider it farming then it must be so...

Legit doing same line of quests followed by getting those najatar guardian up is not grind? Some entering old raid at this point to gain isn't an issue? I want to play an alt in a new patch if i wanted to play it in the last patch then i would of. There is no reason at this point to cap people from getting it on alts at all. This expansion is finished.

As for difference it's simple class design by FAR was much better, ill state this one as my opinion but dungeons were so much better overall. Legendaries gave so many ways of playing your character it was actually amazing, yes the initial 2 patches was awful just gaining them but most expansions first few patches tend to be poor af. Alts were easy to catch up without requiring constant farming of old rep/raids. Gear sets again another way of changing way your char can play this is my opinion aswell but yh. Ofcourse there is also just amount of good looking sets from arena for classes + mage tower with appearance giving you a good reason to play alts.

[kaminaris]

Tier sets -> azerite gear
Artifact weapon -> neck + essences
Legiondaries -> Corrupted

Fixed that for you. It's nice having personal opinions and all that, but at least be honest. To compared Legendaries to Essences isn't only wrong, it's also make zero sense seeing we have corruption that works the same as legendaries. How can you even compare Artifact Weapon to neck only when neck does nothing but let you use "tier-sets"? Logic 101.

Both are items
Both are behind RNG WALL as you so gently put it.
Both got limited amount of pieces you can equip(within reasonable corruption)

Nah, corruption is completely different system. New experiment.

Corruption can simply OCCUR on random item. Legiondaries were static slot static static stats.
Legiondaries were talents-on-items. Corruption is generic trinket-like-effect.
RNG acquisition is just another layer of rng on top of item drop rng.

so if you want some "replacement" then corruption is replacement for titanforging.

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Well i suppose if you don't consider it farming then it must be so...

Legit doing same line of quests followed by getting those najatar guardian up is not grind? Some entering old raid at this point to gain isn't an issue? I want to play an alt in a new patch if i wanted to play it in the last patch then i would of. There is no reason at this point to cap people from getting it on alts at all. This expansion is finished.

As for difference it's simple class design by FAR was much better, ill state this one as my opinion but dungeons were so much better overall. Legendaries gave so many ways of playing your character it was actually amazing, yes the initial 2 patches was awful just gaining them but most expansions first few patches tend to be poor af. Alts were easy to catch up without requiring constant farming of old rep/raids. Gear sets again another way of changing way your char can play this is my opinion aswell but yh. Ofcourse there is also just amount of good looking sets from arena for classes + mage tower with appearance giving you a good reason to play alts.

You dont know what is farming if you never farmed leggos in legion.
Farming is doing EN ToV and NH all on lfr, normal, heroic, mythic for good couple of months.

Doing revered with a faction for 20-30 minutes daily for 2-3 weeks is not farming at all.

[Kalisandra]

They do and have done the whole expansion. So when you change from lets say holy at HoA level 77 you have HoA level 77 when you go prot. Same was in 8.0, 8.1, 8.2 etc. You don't know this?

Actually, I had a had brain fart, and read 'spec' as 'alt'. And then worte 'spec' myself while still thinking 'alt'. My apologies.

[sam86]

yes the initial 2 patches was awful just gaining them but most expansions first few patches tend to be poor af.

MoP first patch specially is best example of how to have a very bad start
I think MoP first patch is worst first patch in wow history, the dailies grind were wayyyyyyyy too much to do anything that it (and that comes from someone who prefer dailies over WQ system)

[Specialka]

Nah, corruption is completely different system. New experiment.

Corruption can simply OCCUR on random item. Legiondaries were static slot static static stats.
Legiondaries were talents-on-items. Corruption is generic trinket-like-effect.
RNG acquisition is just another layer of rng on top of item drop rng.

so if you want some "replacement" then corruption is replacement for titanforging.

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You dont know what is farming if you never farmed leggos in legion.
Farming is doing EN ToV and NH all on lfr, normal, heroic, mythic for good couple of months.

Doing revered with a faction for 20-30 minutes daily for 2-3 weeks is not farming at all.

Do not put your definition on things plz.

"Farming is doing EN ToV and NH all on lfr, normal, heroic, mythic for good couple of months.

Doing revered with a faction for 20-30 minutes daily for 2-3 weeks is not farming at all. "

Both are farming.

[sam86]

You dont know what is farming if you never farmed leggos in legion.
Farming is doing EN ToV and NH all on lfr, normal, heroic, mythic for good couple of months.

Doing revered with a faction for 20-30 minutes daily for 2-3 weeks is not farming at all.

we were comparing essence with seals or tomes or whatever their name was in artifact weapon from legion, not comparing with legendaries
And if u want to compare legendaries then compare last patch with current patch of bfa since both are at end patch, and in that case Legion still wins because how massively buffed legendaries drop were in 7.3 that u could even farm specific ones for ur need

[Jotaux]

It's the same AP grind.

The ap grind isn't comparable. I was able to max out all 3 specs on multiple toons without trying to hard. Each level for the artifact felt far more rewarding as well.

In BFA I lost a lot of the awesome things I had in Legion.

As a shaman all 3 specs were horrendous till the last days of Ulduar when elemental got a rework. Resto shaman recovered in the next tier and ele was in an okay spot, but enhance was trash tier. Same with EP. Enhance is doing alright now but I would take any of the other melee specs over it.

Oh and I don't know if you saw the arena tournament but it was all about who can proc first and global your opponent.

[Kalisandra]

That said, I understand some of the comparisons to Corrupted gear because it, like Legiondaries, suffers from a lack of deterministic acquisition methods. I don't know if I'd go so far to say that Legiondaries were better simply because "you'd eventually get what you want" because the acquisition rates of Corrupted gear is far higher (even with BLP taken into account). The feeling of getting a shitty Legiondary pales in comparison to getting a shitty Corrupted piece. (Especially since you can cleanse Corrupted gear and if the piece was an upgrade, it's still an upgrade.)

On the other hand, there were a limited number of legendaries, and you could only get each one once. There are a lot of different corruptions, when you consider that most come in different levels, and as they can come on just about any item slot, and can be repeated, it can take a long, long time to get the combination you want. Some people will never see the corruptions they want, let alone on decent pieces of gear, even if they play a great deal and make sure they do their m+ every week, etc.

[kaminaris]

Do not put your definition on things plz.

"Farming is doing EN ToV and NH all on lfr, normal, heroic, mythic for good couple of months.

Doing revered with a faction for 20-30 minutes daily for 2-3 weeks is not farming at all. "

Both are farming.

Yeah going with that logic everything is farming.

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we were comparing essence with seals or tomes or whatever their name was in artifact weapon from legion, not comparing with legendaries
And if u want to compare legendaries then compare last patch with current patch of bfa since both are at end patch, and in that case Legion still wins because how massively buffed legendaries drop were in 7.3 that u could even farm specific ones for ur need

Yes I was comparing it with legendaries. They wre introduced in 8.2 not in last patch. 8.3 legendaries were irrelevant as you already had all of them, damage has been already done. Essences are 100% deterministic acquisition.

[Byleth]

Very alt friendly is a bit of a stretch isn't it.... Legion was the first Addon which made Twinking harder. By a longshot

No one cares about Twinks.

[Tazr]

New Class, weapons required leveling, but added to gameplay, class halls, class story-lines, extremely profitable mission tables/ease of making gold. Easy to grind honor. More alt friendly, once we had pathfinder, they didn't booby-trap flying with hostile flying mobs designed solely to harass.

[Keesasha Reborn]

Say you eat a really good cake every day for 2 years. Then you eat the same cake for 2 more years. Even if it's just as good, you won't enjoy it as much. Not saying there are no differences, but they aren't big enough to matter for casual players.

[Doffen]

Actually, I had a had brain fart, and read 'spec' as 'alt'. And then worte 'spec' myself while still thinking 'alt'. My apologies.

No need to apologize, misreads happens ^^