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  1. #1

    Question What exactly makes some people say Legion was good but BfA is bad?

    To me, BfA is almost exactly the same as Legion.

    It's the same focus on world quests. One daily quest with bigger reward etc.

    It's the same focus on M+. The same key system, and endless scaling of dungeons in a "modern" GOGOGO AoE fashion.

    It's the same Raiding system. 4 difficulties. LFR, Normal, Heroic and Mythic.

    It's the same questing system.

    It's the same AP grind.

    It's the same Titanforging system.

    It's actually a bit BETTER system than the "no gear should matter in PvP", "100% random garbage ilvl PvP gear" PvP system we had in Legion.

    To me, it seems like the only reason people liked Legion was because of the transmogs on your cool weapons. And people seem salty that BfA don't have Class sets (another transmog argument). Is it really this easy to make you enjoy an expansion? Cool transmogs = good expansion?

  2. #2
    Legion didn’t have essences

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire Chromeshellking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mightytasty View Post
    Legion didn’t have essences
    And chars could all research your AK with catch ups and didnt punish you for playing more than one char.
    Fate is one you forge with your own two hands.

  4. #4
    I agree 100%. The randomness of legendaries was also awful in legion. The only thing that was sort of fun were the class halls and some of the appearances you could get. Corrupted Ashbringer comes to mind.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Mightytasty View Post
    Legion didn’t have essences

    Neither did Bfa for most of the time, and yet you heard the same complaints

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Chromeshellking View Post
    And chars could all research your AK with catch ups and didnt punish you for playing more than one char.
    AK is now baked in and doesn't requiere research anymore. But you had to loot relics for every alt in Legion

  6. #6
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    I mean, it seems you purposely left the best bit about Legion out of your rant.

    The class focused stories, and quests surrounding those - That's why a lot of people liked Legion.

    But if your the kind of person that skips every cutscene and just zooms through everything, then yeah, you wouldn't have enjoyed it as much. Also it was a very alt-friendly expansion.
    Here is something to believe in!

  7. #7
    Sure the underlying mechanics are identical in a way but in Legion they where (for me) served better. Legion felt more coherent and on going in a way whereas BfA has a lot of dead ends.

  8. #8
    Legendary!
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    Story was better.
    No Azerite armor.
    No Essences.
    No Corruptions.

  9. #9
    Let's not overlook the difference between cool, powerful weapons that you kept all expansion versus... necklaces.

  10. #10
    Stood in the Fire conceptKitty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjub View Post
    Let's not overlook the difference between cool, powerful weapons that you kept all expansion versus... necklaces.
    Basically this.

    Also class halls were pretty darn cool(for most people) and we got Argus which I personal loved.
    I feel like Ny'lotha should have been Argus V2 but that didn't happen, unfortunately.

    Then there was the mage tower. As much as I enjoy visions there are no nice cosmetics. I have all the masks and they're all horrible and plain recolours. Wrathion's Cape is alright but I always hide capes since they hide so much of your characters armor.

    If they were to remove the Heart of Azeroth you wouldn't exactly miss it since it's exactly the same for absolutely everyone. It has no real identity, unlike Artifacts in legion.

  11. #11
    The thing was they both started as dog poop but by this time in legion they fixed most of peoples complaints about it. Bfa on the other hand they keep going no we are right you are wrong we wont fix it so of course people are hating on it.

  12. #12
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    Legion had:
    -Suramar + withered scenario
    -Mage Tower
    -Class order halls + quests + mounts
    -Interesting artifact designs you can collect
    -Interesting story
    -Likable characters

    BfA has nothing of that.

    Legion did have legiondary issues, and the AP wasn't fun to farm, but as a casual player I couldn't care less. My first legiondaries on my main was Prydaz and Sephuz so yeah, I wasn't exactly lucky in the legiondary lottery. And while it was a bitch to get alts raid ready with AP farm it got better later in the expac.

    Azerite gear and essence farm isn't fun imo. Corruption feels like it just takes all control out of the players hands and that isn't a good feeling.

    Legion did ruin a lot of classes but BfA imo is worse.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The Mage Tower and Argus were more interesting than Horrific Visions and Vale/Uldum and far more replayable for alts.
    I thought Argus was fairly poor as these things go, but aside from being able to fly in them, Vale and Uldam are far worse.

  14. #14
    The issue is you name things that obviously both have, but that doesn't mean the content being done is the same, and even if it was the same enough, it would be a repeat of 2 years.

    So mythic+ has some nightmare dungeons with affixes (shrine of storm/tol'gador) and overall feel like dungeon design like layout and visuals could of been better and affixes are being repeated from legion so there is some fatigue. But imo dungeons aren't the worst.

    World quests are not the same world quests as in legion: there was less variety and longer time per quest because blizzard had issue with things like add-ons and groups destroying wqs super fast. The wqs of bfa had less variety and doing collect azerite, save turtles, etc. 5 times a day is just terrible. Nazjatar was better but that is late into xpac when damage of bfa had been done.

    Ap grind in legion came from all content in great amounts:dungeons,pvp,etc. The system was a feeling of progression from everything, as you played the game but in bfa AP came mostly from islands and world quests. Islands were pretty dull and grindy on release (beta islands were more interesting than release) and I showed above the issue of world quests. Add in the satisfaction being drastically different to getting new things that had some interaction with the class being switched with the same traits you had earlier just higher item level, the ap grind was massively worse and one of the biggest issues.

    For the most part other things like raids, zones, titanforging,etc. are similar and down to preference and other factors like how happy you were with the expansion overall. Questing is similar but I will say the war campaign feels way worse and generic to the unique class campaigns, and not having a cool zone like suramar to just explore and enjoy the story is negatives to bfa.

    Finally my personal gripe is class design and feel. Legion added a lot of depth to classes and changes to old spells that made the game feel more fun to me and those being taken away, put back in in worse forms (talents), and replaced with the failed azerite system made many classes I used to enjoy feel worse, and it hit during leveling which also makes leveling feel worse compared to legion. If the class feels worse to play and the content was exactly the same, it would still be a worse experience.

    Just my opinions but I really disliked bfa despite really wanting to play wow, hopefully shadow lands feels fun to me love the game.

  15. #15
    I didn't like either, but thought Legion was better overall. There was a point to doing the content (except just hoping for titanforging) with the legendaries. Sure, they were introduced horribly and some were objectively way superior, but it was something. If you did stuff, you'd get them eventually. Something that was actually BiS. The content itself was much better as well, which helped a lot. Suramar was a great zone and felt fresh and original, mythic+ dungeons were way more fun as well, Karazhan was very enjoyable, mage tower was really fun etc.

    Some classes also weren't horrendously overpowered in mythic+ like rogues have been due to the 30 IQ idea of making shroud available in the dungeons, while simultaneously having by far the best AoE in the game. Classes were also more interesting than in BfA (though of course still a travesty compared to previous expansions).

    The story of BfA is also an insult to human intelligence. At least Legion's story was acceptable. Story has never been great in wow, but in BfA it's so bad it becomes hard to ignore.

    The only thing BfA did better is as you said, PvP. It's still absolute trash though and they need to bring back PvP vendors. Also, get rid of dampening and just balance the damn game instead.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    To me, BfA is almost exactly the same as Legion.

    It's the same focus on world quests. One daily quest with bigger reward etc.

    It's the same focus on M+. The same key system, and endless scaling of dungeons in a "modern" GOGOGO AoE fashion.

    It's the same Raiding system. 4 difficulties. LFR, Normal, Heroic and Mythic.

    It's the same questing system.

    It's the same AP grind.

    It's the same Titanforging system.

    It's actually a bit BETTER system than the "no gear should matter in PvP", "100% random garbage ilvl PvP gear" PvP system we had in Legion.

    To me, it seems like the only reason people liked Legion was because of the transmogs on your cool weapons. And people seem salty that BfA don't have Class sets (another transmog argument). Is it really this easy to make you enjoy an expansion? Cool transmogs = good expansion?
    Essences, Azerite Armor and Blizzard have proved their Alliance bias beyond any doubts, is what makes BfA bad.
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > ShaLa > MoP > DF > BfA > WoD = WotLK

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  17. #17
    It's the same focus on world quests. One daily quest with bigger reward etc.
    World quests are the same they just replace the basic dailies and rotate a bit more often making the world feel a bit more full. So give you that WQ are still there just different zones.

    It's the same focus on M+. The same key system, and endless scaling of dungeons in a "modern" GOGOGO AoE fashion
    It's the same Raiding system. 4 difficulties. LFR, Normal, Heroic and Mythic.
    So im gonna put these two together cause yea this is a big thing to me. Raiding gear was always better then M+ gear if you raided. The teir sets made the raiding gear far better then M+ gear. You were not forced to farm a certain M+ in god damn hopes to getting the one azerite piece with the certain set of traits to keep your class up to par in the raiding scene. Thus all then coming around and making raiding gear that much more less value then it should have. Lets add in this backwards ass corruption system in this mix. Now you have to get that one certain item with the certain set of corruption traits. Give me back class teir sets with damn titanforging. Least then had a shot at gear cause really you only had like 1-2 items per slot that held a teir item in that you could chose to take the teir item for a full set bonus or rotate it around for a non set item but that was for all slots.

    It's the same questing system.
    Its an MMO they all have their questing system. But BFA story is ok for the most part depending on how you look at it and the zones are beautiful. I myself did both horde and alliance and while horde seem more linked between the zones in that you need to try and save the seals it just felt like it fell apart with them after the first raid. And alliance felt disjointed for good part of the questing between zones (wish they did more with the drust so one can hope for shadowlands) the end chain with Jaina was pretty damn cool.

    It's the same AP grind.
    Yes but Legion also made it alt friendly as people said. Not punish people if they wanted to have an alt or even switch mains half way threw the expac.

    It's the same Titanforging system.
    Ill take the one RNG system rather then now the multi layer one of do you have the right azerite traits, ok now does it have the right corruption trait, ok now did it go to the right lv of corruption.

    It's actually a bit BETTER system than the "no gear should matter in PvP", "100% random garbage ilvl PvP gear" PvP system we had in Legion.
    I dont PvP so ill take your word for this one cause I cant say anything about it.


    So lets add in what legion had better then BFA. First was the weapons. You kept the weapons threw out all of the expac and they got stronger with you in not only AP but also the relics. During a raid or an instance if a relic dropped that no one wanted or needed you could trade it between different classes. I always remember trading shadow and fel relics around on my demon hunter cause they were not always that great to me but were fantastic for a warlock or shadow priest. But the same could be said for them.
    Add in also the mage tower it was something to work on solo for your characters for a fantastic reward. Remember when the first few people got their mage tower looks. The first dungeon you did with a werebear when you could tell they KNEW their class and showed it. Im sure you flaunted that look off. To me you could also add in the teir sets gave classes identity. Not this generic look between all casters, all plate wearers. You see how fast these 'new' sets get transmoged over. They are horrible and thus have no reason to go in on a different class unless its a different armor type.

    Thats my take on the differences between BFA and Legion.

  18. #18
    7.3 Catch ups were much better than 8.3 and allowed me to enjoy alts. You could skip broken shore intro, you can't skip Nazjatar intro. You needed 2 WQs to catch up with most of AP in Legion as opposed to still needing 2-3 WQ per level in BFA and having to catch up 20+ levels of neck. Argunite gear was better than the blues we get from invasions, ffs it gives azerite with only 1 trait with is big step back from Benthic.

    Corruption is a worse system than Legion legendaries because you have no BLP, no limit to equip, it's not class specific only very generic, and it has awful downsides. Meanwhile class performance is extremely defined by having correct corruptions.

    Legion had class transmogs and they looked better than all BFA transmogs. It also had class stories, class mounts, class artifact transmogs and mage tower challenge, there were goals for collectors and reasons to develop your alts.

    Blood of Sargeras and obliterum was a better system than expulsom. Also crafting in BFA seems to produce very underwhelming items, basically below catch up gear. It's a bummer.

    Mission table is still there, but it's worse in every aspect, countering "cursed" got shifted from champions to rng troops, and the rewards are very underwhelming.

    A lot of classes feel lacking in gameplay after artifact was removed, for me for example arcane mage and affliction warlock lost majority of what made them fun. Azerite traits are annoying because you have to regrind them every patch contrary to legion legendaries that once you had them, you had them, just needed to upgrade, and also contrary to tier sets every patch we have the same class azerite traits which gets boring, at least when you regrinded new raid set you were getting a different buff.

    Islands and warfronts are content I wish never existed and devs never wasted their time on it.

    Half the allied races are goddamned recolours and generally created to keep casuals hooked rep grinding and then levelling a pointless alt only for heritage armour. Legion gave you reasons to bring your alt to end game, BFA gives you reason to level them and then ditch...

    BFA lore is stupid and feels like recycling of MOP's story. Legion was a throwback to TBC but it looked much better than TBC that was completely disconnected and full of lore gaps you could only learn from external sources. Legion gave people demon hunters and they've been super popular.

    Every aspect I touch BFA is a downgrade. You can't just say "oh it has quests and dungeons and raids and pvp" because EVERY wow expansion has that, it's like saying every human has a heart and a brain.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    To me, BfA is almost exactly the same as Legion.

    It's the same focus on world quests. One daily quest with bigger reward etc.

    It's the same focus on M+. The same key system, and endless scaling of dungeons in a "modern" GOGOGO AoE fashion.

    It's the same Raiding system. 4 difficulties. LFR, Normal, Heroic and Mythic.

    It's the same questing system.

    It's the same AP grind.

    It's the same Titanforging system.

    It's actually a bit BETTER system than the "no gear should matter in PvP", "100% random garbage ilvl PvP gear" PvP system we had in Legion.

    To me, it seems like the only reason people liked Legion was because of the transmogs on your cool weapons. And people seem salty that BfA don't have Class sets (another transmog argument). Is it really this easy to make you enjoy an expansion? Cool transmogs = good expansion?
    its actualy in no way the same ap grind,like by multiple maginitutes not the same,bfa is far far better at not actualy being a grind,same with titanforge,even before 8.3 removal,it didnt scale as crazy as it did in legion and had lower chances,also...the reasons people liked legion more was for a number of reasons,artefacts,legenderies are better than coruption,the overall story was better,class hall campaigns were better than war campaign,something that blows my mind considering you would think focusing on ONE story would end up being made better than having so many,but i guess not

  20. #20
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibjub View Post
    Let's not overlook the difference between cool, powerful weapons that you kept all expansion versus... necklaces.
    Honestly, I prefer the necklace. Weapons are the most fun and interesting part of your gear you want to keep replacing. Having your weapon slot "locked" for the whole expansion is... boring. Having a necklace "locked" is boring as well, but at least it's a rather boring slot this time around.

    While the concept of artifact weapons was a nice gimmick for an expansion, I don't want it to return. Upgrading the Artifact with Relics made it a bit less stale, but not by much.
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