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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by bloodwulf View Post
    Plays a spec that does comparatively low damage to their classes other specs. Has a spec that can literally use 95% of the gear they have and destroy the content they are complaining about, yet refuses to switch to that.

    Is the person not using all the tools available them in the wrong.........

    or

    Blizzard making content that can't be speedrun by a healer in the wrong.........


    TLDR
    Switch to elemental or leave. Stubborn players like you wont be missed in the slightest.
    That mentality sucks and hopefully gets ignored. I'm lucky in that I enjoy Resto Shaman and Elemental Shaman, but I also really love Holy Priest and think Shadow Priest is the most boring shit ever added to the game. The endless emphasis of having to be a dps spec for all the chores has retired my Priest despite it normally being my go-to for healing. His concerns are legitimate if possibly being put forward in a forum that won't get him very much traction for expressing them.

    I also find it funny that Tanks are such a wildly unpopular role, and that if they made content that made them All-Stars for everything to the point where Hybrids felt compelled to be forced to tank or be wildly inefficient they'd end up refusing to switch and whine and cry until everything went back to being umbrella'd under DPS. Oh wait, that already happened; it was called Vengeance. Yet in any other scenario Healers or Tanks have to suck it up and opt to play something they don't want to for all the miscellaneous chores shoved into the game.

    I don't like tanking. I never have, I probably never will because I don't like leading people or having to justify what packs need to be pulled under what conditions with a bunch of randoms. And say what you will about Vengeance in raids potentially discouraging DPS when someone 5x more survivable gets an inflation stat to do comparable or more damage than them depending on gimmickry like using paladins to not tank swap, etc-- but at the end of the day, Vengeance didn't hurt anyone in solo content. But even that wasn't good enough, because there were still tears even about that aspect of it. Even as they sit in queues wondering where the hell the tanks are.

  2. #22
    Guys... remember how Warfronts and Islands were good on paper and then what we got...

  3. #23
    I am Murloc! Chonar's Avatar
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    Sometimes I legitimately think you people are parody accounts.
    "Tried to solo this timed, high-octane-adrenalin speedrun content as a restoration shaman, I didnt enjoy it."

    You can't make this shit up.
    I did not hit that snowmound, it's not true! It's bullshit, I did not hit it. I did NAHT.
    Oh hai Yeti

  4. #24
    Scarab Lord Triggered Fridgekin's Avatar
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    A lot of the interest for me will be the price of admission. Will it require the player to grind and grind and grind resources in order to participate or will it take more of a FF14 endless dungeon where you can queue however many times you want but there are break points where you collect rewards which reflect how far you go.

    It also sounds like it could be hard to balance around since there's no timer which would further increase the disparity between classes which excel at it over those who don't.
    A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of colored ribbon.

  5. #25
    OP how you want to balance content so SUPPORT class can comple it while NOT SUPPORTING other and doing it solo instead. Like what.

    If you want to solo content you pick a self efficient role note the role that is build around playing in group.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonar View Post
    Sometimes I legitimately think you people are parody accounts.
    "Tried to solo this timed, high-octane-adrenalin speedrun content as a restoration shaman, I didnt enjoy it."

    You can't make this shit up.
    I don't think anyone has a problem with that... Or at least, I hope they don't, because that would be silly. It has less to do with the content and more to do with it being the only avenue for the Cloak which in turn not only applies to the overall corruption system but even the Raid itself. If there were other reliable ways to do it it'd be pretty different. They've majorly adjusted the scaling for healers twice showing how wonky its been; as in not only solo healing scaling, but even group healing scaling initially not being worth the cost to add a healer. Add in that healers also favor different types of corruption to what anyone else would collect that isn't particularly great for AoE.

    If they're tying that to the cloak, which ties to raid content and general power scale for the entire patch to this high-octane-adrenalin speedrun content, its pretty fair to be nervous about Torghast doing similar with Legendaries and whatever other systems could be attached. Tho with floors allowing you to choose different bonuses and drawbacks to those bonuses such as the Flameshock example I think Torghast has more potential to not screwing other roles.

  7. #27
    Torghast isn't timed content, and you can do it at your own pace. That alone already makes it easier to solo as a healer.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Triggered Fridgekin View Post
    A lot of the interest for me will be the price of admission. Will it require the player to grind and grind and grind resources in order to participate or will it take more of a FF14 endless dungeon where you can queue however many times you want but there are break points where you collect rewards which reflect how far you go.

    It also sounds like it could be hard to balance around since there's no timer which would further increase the disparity between classes which excel at it over those who don't.

    I think not having a timer will make it easier to balance. Sure some classes/specs might blast through it far faster than others, but as long as everyone can get through it then there isn't as much worry. If you have to make sure everyone can get through it in X amount of time, that makes balancing much harder.

    And that's where I think the difference will be from visions, lack of timer. I personally am so sick of everything being timed. I just want to take my time with some things, especially if it's something I need to do to progress. It's not a case of "Get good" either, I can do it, that's not the problem. The problem is I don't enjoy it when I have to beat a timer. So even if everything else is just a copy paste of visions, if there's no timer that'll already be a huge improvement for me.

  9. #29
    Epic! bloodwulf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reivur View Post
    That mentality sucks and hopefully gets ignored. I'm lucky in that I enjoy Resto Shaman and Elemental Shaman, but I also really love Holy Priest and think Shadow Priest is the most boring shit ever added to the game. The endless emphasis of having to be a dps spec for all the chores has retired my Priest despite it normally being my go-to for healing. His concerns are legitimate if possibly being put forward in a forum that won't get him very much traction for expressing them.

    I also find it funny that Tanks are such a wildly unpopular role, and that if they made content that made them All-Stars for everything to the point where Hybrids felt compelled to be forced to tank or be wildly inefficient they'd end up refusing to switch and whine and cry until everything went back to being umbrella'd under DPS. Oh wait, that already happened; it was called Vengeance. Yet in any other scenario Healers or Tanks have to suck it up and opt to play something they don't want to for all the miscellaneous chores shoved into the game.

    I don't like tanking. I never have, I probably never will because I don't like leading people or having to justify what packs need to be pulled under what conditions with a bunch of randoms. And say what you will about Vengeance in raids potentially discouraging DPS when someone 5x more survivable gets an inflation stat to do comparable or more damage than them depending on gimmickry like using paladins to not tank swap, etc-- but at the end of the day, Vengeance didn't hurt anyone in solo content. But even that wasn't good enough, because there were still tears even about that aspect of it. Even as they sit in queues wondering where the hell the tanks are.
    First, i have 14 120s and every role represented and geared to 440ish. I don't do mythic raid and high end PVP so that is about the only thing i don't have strong knowledge of. So take what i say below with that in mind.

    The problem with vengeance was just certain tanks were literal gods at everything at that time. Vengeance allowed Blood DKs to appear at the top of essentially every meter except deaths. If vengeance only toggled on during solo, it might have a place again. But in this discussion about Horrific visions, tanks are arguably one of the best for that content, especially after nerfs. Vengeance DH and Blood DKs can easily full clear visions, much easier than some pure dps classes (mage for example). Horrific visions is already content that tanks are all-stars. Id rather do it in my vengeance spec than my havoc spec because it feels smoother healthwise and clears nearly as fast. Same with my Blood versus my Unholy. My guild is full of players that switch from DPS\Heals to Tank to get the achievements solo in Visions. I have no problem with switch specs, and feel it is the reason Blizzard gave the option. Hell Vanilla my Shaman would switch specs to farm stuff toward the end of content.

    What OP is wanting is to not adapt in any way to the content. He expects to take a healer spec and enter content that DPS need to be challenged at, and do it with no difference. That mindset is toxic for the game. They have already nerfed mob HP significantly if you enter as a solo healer. Another person has already gave a viable build for resto shaman to complete the content. Players should be expected to change their playstyle minorly at the least to do different content. It harkens back to having different specs for different things. OP is pissed that his resto can not walk in to visions and clear it without any adaptability. He has two options that can make visions viable for him, go a dps spec or go the high dps build for resto, if he chooses to stick in his way and not do it, then yes, he is stubborn and content should not be catered to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reivur View Post
    I don't think anyone has a problem with that... Or at least, I hope they don't, because that would be silly. It has less to do with the content and more to do with it being the only avenue for the Cloak which in turn not only applies to the overall corruption system but even the Raid itself. If there were other reliable ways to do it it'd be pretty different. They've majorly adjusted the scaling for healers twice showing how wonky its been; as in not only solo healing scaling, but even group healing scaling initially not being worth the cost to add a healer. Add in that healers also favor different types of corruption to what anyone else would collect that isn't particularly great for AoE.

    If they're tying that to the cloak, which ties to raid content and general power scale for the entire patch to this high-octane-adrenalin speedrun content, its pretty fair to be nervous about Torghast doing similar with Legendaries and whatever other systems could be attached. Tho with floors allowing you to choose different bonuses and drawbacks to those bonuses such as the Flameshock example I think Torghast has more potential to not screwing other roles.
    Here is the thing, you don't have to solo it. If you want to stay a healer, and need the cloak for raiding, take a couple of those raiders and have them run it with you. Its easiest to clear in a group anyways. If your raid is being held back by a healers cloak levels, and that healer refuses to adapt by changing specs (even while staying healer, just picking more damage talents and essences), then your raid group just sets a group up to power farm it for them.
    We live in an era of "me versus them", an era where something is done that you don't like means you are personally attacked. People whine too much.
    Let us play video games and be happy.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Reivur View Post
    That mentality sucks and hopefully gets ignored. I'm lucky in that I enjoy Resto Shaman and Elemental Shaman, but I also really love Holy Priest and think Shadow Priest is the most boring shit ever added to the game. The endless emphasis of having to be a dps spec for all the chores has retired my Priest despite it normally being my go-to for healing. His concerns are legitimate if possibly being put forward in a forum that won't get him very much traction for expressing them.

    I also find it funny that Tanks are such a wildly unpopular role, and that if they made content that made them All-Stars for everything to the point where Hybrids felt compelled to be forced to tank or be wildly inefficient they'd end up refusing to switch and whine and cry until everything went back to being umbrella'd under DPS. Oh wait, that already happened; it was called Vengeance. Yet in any other scenario Healers or Tanks have to suck it up and opt to play something they don't want to for all the miscellaneous chores shoved into the game.

    I don't like tanking. I never have, I probably never will because I don't like leading people or having to justify what packs need to be pulled under what conditions with a bunch of randoms. And say what you will about Vengeance in raids potentially discouraging DPS when someone 5x more survivable gets an inflation stat to do comparable or more damage than them depending on gimmickry like using paladins to not tank swap, etc-- but at the end of the day, Vengeance didn't hurt anyone in solo content. But even that wasn't good enough, because there were still tears even about that aspect of it. Even as they sit in queues wondering where the hell the tanks are.
    The "if what you've been trying doesn't work, try changing something" mentality is a hell of a lot better than the "I should be able to kill everything with the same "ease" as a damage spec despite not being a damage spec".

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Super Kami Dende View Post
    Imagine crying about WoW on forums only to then turn around and give Blizzard Money to play the game you hate anyway.
    it is ironic there is literally entire youtube channels dedicated to making vdeos about how "DEAD AND IRELLEVENT" wow is, yet their whole business model relys on wow being very relevent to them

  12. #32
    I am Murloc!
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    Welcome to this week's episode of "OP complains about something based on completely wrong assumptions".

  13. #33
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiiiMiii View Post
    I can only speak for myself, ...

    From my standpoint,..

    If people got bored of Horrific Visions in less than 2 months, how is Torghast supposed to last an entire expansion?
    See...here is your problem. You constantly jump between your opinion and generalizing that everyone thinks that way.

    Thorgast might be just another feature like Warfronts, Island Expeditions, Timewalking, the mage tower etc etc.

    And like with everything else might I add the eternal wisdom of "don't f***ing do what you don't like".

    Jesus..it is bad enough that everyone thinks they need to make a personal blog about features that are in game, but this shit on how stuff is bad before it is even tested is just the worse.

    Hey, let me also look into my crystal ball: I bet enough ppl enjoyed the Wretched Scenario in Suramar and the mage tower challenge that they expanded on it with HV and hence we get another take on it with Torghast.

    But who knows..maybe you are right. Maybe "nobody" enjoys HV and "everybody is bored" now. Maybe they will say..."look, this MiiiMiii guy is right, let us scrap this feature." - I will be pissing myself over the nerdrage of "another scrapped feature that would have been so cooooool".

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by thilicen View Post
    Welcome to this week's episode of "OP complains about something based on completely wrong assumptions".
    But...but...but...muh...Acti-Blizz has fucked everything up so far, so they will fuck this up, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mendzia View Post
    Guys... remember how Warfronts and Islands were good on paper and then what we got...
    I liked warfronts for some time...what are the odds? And when I didn't like them anymore, I stopped. Agree on IE...did them to unlock the research on my main, disliked them...stopped.

    But you know....I loath pvp. I think I should be making threads every week on how pvp is DoA because I dislike it. How area is DoA for the same reason. How mythic raiding is dead, because I don't raid.

    Etc....(insert pet battles, high mythic+, anything that somebody has a personal problem with and projects it on the entire player base)
    Last edited by det; 2020-03-10 at 01:56 PM.

  14. #34
    I think Visions are fun, albeit a bit repetitive after the 20th time. Masks are a great way to allow progression by adding challenge for better gear and I'd wish they would switch the weekly affixes in M+ to a mask system since some weeks are very easy affix weeks and others are much more challenging.

    Also I think it would be more fun to add more affixes to 15s than to just make it a numbers game by pushing keys to 20s (would help the general balance issues with high keys as well).

  15. #35
    If Horrific Visions is anything to go by, Torghast is going to be great.

    (It'll need feedback though, I hope they'll go live on alpha or early beta)

  16. #36
    Visions are awesome, full of little things to optimize your runs, items, tweaks,... I only regret not being able to run more of them.

    I even do them as priest. Arguably the most difficult class to do them. Still enjoyable.

  17. #37
    DOA? Dick On Anal?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    I have never once in my life trolled or tried to troll anyone.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendzia View Post
    Guys... remember how Warfronts and Islands were good on paper and then what we got...
    Warfronts would have been amazing had they been more like DOTA or League and less about siege vehicles.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - let's get real everyone, classic needs #somechanges get over it.

  19. #39
    From what we know Torghast will a)be more varied from run to run and b)without timer. Not that visions aren't great (they are), but it will be different.

    But I have feeling that if you enter solo Torghast as Resto Shaman, you gonna have bad time. Just a feeling ;D.

  20. #40
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    OP: *goes into Horrific Visions solo as a healer*

    "Guys I think Shadowlands is gonna suck!"

    Why are you trying to solo it as a healer? Why solo content as a healer? Get a group or spec enh/ele. I don't get why healers expect to be able to solo current content at the same pace as damage specs. You're being ridiculous.

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