If Horrific Visions is anything to go by, Torghast is DOA

[jiih]

We know the WoW team is working on new content literally 2 expansions before they hit live servers. This means, even before BfA released, they were probably already working on Horrific Visions and, by extension, Torghast. No matter how little you enjoy Horrific Visions, Torghast was already designed to be pretty much the same thing long before they had any chance to get any feedback.

Blizzard has completely gambled that people would enjoy Horrific Visions and doubled down on this idea in Torghast. This whole single run - "do your best" kind of content.

I can only speak for myself, and mention I do not enjoy Horrific Visions at this point in time. I tried to do it solo as a Resto Shaman, and it was extremely slow and inefficient. I was "forced" to respec to Enhancement, and even in this spec, I don't enjoy it. The reason is that it's just stressful and annoying with all the stuff I gotta move out of. It's like a solo version of Mythic+, a system I already despise.

Horrific Visions is a place designed for AoE melee/hunter DPS. It's a system that takes a long time to do, so it feels more like a chore than fun. It's also a system that many people already are getting bored by. This means people got bored of Horrific Visions in less than 2 months.

From what I understand, this Torghast system is the very core of the whole expansion. It's the Artifact Weapons of Shadowlands. It's the Island Expedition / Heart of Azeroth of Shadowlands. It's the place to get your transmogs, the place to get your mounts, the place to spend several hours every week.

From my standpoint, if I feel like I have to do these, and I also feel inefficient as a Resto Shaman in there. Then, they try to tell me to "just respec or find a group", I'm out. Not only from the system, but from the entire expansion spider web of systems.

If people got bored of Horrific Visions in less than 2 months, how is Torghast supposed to last an entire expansion?

maybe you should check your iq first before judging challengig solo content because you go in there as a healer?

[kamuimac]

And what exactly is the harm in that? We do all the farming once "experiencing the content" as it was meant to be. I see no reason to farm it again and again and again and again (let's face it, most of us have at least 3 max level Alts). So what if my Alt can start with full clears right away.

the harm is you are playing mmorpg. at least theoreticaly

and all you people want is LoL/instance symulator.

[Kokolums]

There is absolutely no way an MMO should have something like Torghast. That is not content an MMO would have. An MMO would be centered around large-scale events. Yet as we've seen with arenas, M+, IEs, Horrific Visions, and Torghast, Blizzard doesn't want to make an MMO. Warfronts were the only thing that even resembled MMO style content, but they made them so faceroll that its stupid.

As I said before, the only reason to add this stuff is if you think your MMO is almost dead so you are creating stuff for tiny groups to do because there aren't going to be enough players for anything else.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, you say you despise M+ and that's quite a successful feature so your opinion doesn't seem to reflect what the majority finds enjoyable

There is NO WAY on earth you can call m+ a successful feature.

1. Very few people play it.
2. Sub numbers have collapsed since m+ was introduced.

If you install raider.io addon and check your who list, almost nobody even has a score. Among those that DO have a score, most of them don't even play enough to know the mechanics. The m+ scene is pretty much barren. M+ is a dead concept. Its a total failure. At any given time, I might see 10 people with a high m+ score on a server.

On a whim, I decided to count players logged into my server that were over 2k raider.io rating:

paladin: 1
demon hunter: 1
hunter: 1
mage: 1
shaman: 3
druid: 1
death knight: 2
monk: 6
priest: 3
warrior: 2
warlock: 3

24 players over 2k

NONE were over 3k.

[Swnem]

I think it's irrelevant how good it is, just as with islands and warfronts.

What is relevant are class design/gameplay and progression systems.

[Twdft]

24 players over 2k

NONE were over 3k.

High keys were always only played by the 1%. You should take a look how many characters have done runs starting +2
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-character-realm-rankings/season-bfa-4/eu/<realm here>/all/all/

Mythic+ is more successful than organized raiding (meaning normal and higher) by a long shot.

ps: almost 2 million characters worldwide did M+ in season 4
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-charac...world/all/all/

[Jinpachi]

We know the WoW team is working on new content literally 2 expansions before they hit live servers. This means, even before BfA released, they were probably already working on Horrific Visions and, by extension, Torghast. No matter how little you enjoy Horrific Visions, Torghast was already designed to be pretty much the same thing long before they had any chance to get any feedback.

Blizzard has completely gambled that people would enjoy Horrific Visions and doubled down on this idea in Torghast. This whole single run - "do your best" kind of content.

I can only speak for myself, and mention I do not enjoy Horrific Visions at this point in time. I tried to do it solo as a Resto Shaman, and it was extremely slow and inefficient. I was "forced" to respec to Enhancement, and even in this spec, I don't enjoy it. The reason is that it's just stressful and annoying with all the stuff I gotta move out of. It's like a solo version of Mythic+, a system I already despise.

Horrific Visions is a place designed for AoE melee/hunter DPS. It's a system that takes a long time to do, so it feels more like a chore than fun. It's also a system that many people already are getting bored by. This means people got bored of Horrific Visions in less than 2 months.

From what I understand, this Torghast system is the very core of the whole expansion. It's the Artifact Weapons of Shadowlands. It's the Island Expedition / Heart of Azeroth of Shadowlands. It's the place to get your transmogs, the place to get your mounts, the place to spend several hours every week.

From my standpoint, if I feel like I have to do these, and I also feel inefficient as a Resto Shaman in there. Then, they try to tell me to "just respec or find a group", I'm out. Not only from the system, but from the entire expansion spider web of systems.

If people got bored of Horrific Visions in less than 2 months, how is Torghast supposed to last an entire expansion?

Oh the life of a casual is a rough one. You poor thing, having to respec to a dmg spec so you can do more dmg. Cry us a handful

[kamuimac]

They describe Tourghast as an Endless Dungeon. They're probably building it to be more similar to Mythic Plus, which lasts people as renewable content through expansions now.

Visions are clear test run for thorgast. not mythic +

if anything it will be like them . with similiar concepts.

[Stardrift]

I supposed you missed the point that a key feature of Torghast is that it'll be different every run - Visions aren't. Plus it's not timed so you can take as long as you like - so you can play whatever you like.

Cool. So the map layout comes in 3 variants and there's an armada of different basic trash enemies that all do the same things and brings no flavour to the table except for a different coat of paint.

I can't wait for no difficulty and only big numbers. I can't wait for a lack of puzzles that aren't shitty mobile game esque minigames. I can't wait to fill yet another bar to 100% before I can move to the next room.

I can't fucking wait.

[Wildmoon]

Torghast sounds like a megaman game.

[Dracullus]

There is NO WAY on earth you can call m+ a successful feature.

It's official, every stupid thing that could be said about WoW has been said on this forum.

[Arcinatoss]

It's official, every stupid thing that could be said about WoW has been said on this forum.

Right? I had to laugh out loud because it was such a stupid take.

[Kokolums]

It's official, every stupid thing that could be said about WoW has been said on this forum.

Nobody plays m+. You can just see it. Its done nothing for the game. I don't care how much YOU like it. Look at it objectively.

[FelPlague]

Nobody plays m+. You can just see it. Its done nothing for the game. I don't care how much YOU like it. Look at it objectively.

High keys were always only played by the 1%. You should take a look how many characters have done runs starting +2
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-character-realm-rankings/season-bfa-4/eu/<realm here>/all/all/

Mythic+ is more successful than organized raiding (meaning normal and higher) by a long shot.

ps: almost 2 million characters worldwide did M+ in season 4
https://raider.io/mythic-plus-charac...world/all/all/

"Nobody plays M+ you can just see it"
Yes, so little people have played M+ that blizz made a esports event around it, that millions of people watched, only beat out by the world first race. and barely even.

[Stardrift]

- - - Updated - - -

Have you played them already?

No. I deleted my account because of 8.3. Originally was gonna wait to see if Shadowlands was at least decent but 8.3 was just too much.

Ironic, isn't it? I'm hoping Blizz turns things around. I desperately want them to change so I can start anew.

[Ersula]

I actually really like horrific visions. With more Island-esque content & not such a big dropoff (I've already finished everything to do in Visions) I think Torghast will be a lot of fun.

[sensei-]

I actually really like horrific visions. With more Island-esque content & not such a big dropoff (I've already finished everything to do in Visions) I think Torghast will be a lot of fun.

How on earth can you be finished with everything in Visions? You should do the 5 mask at least 3 times a week and see what corruptions you get on your 470, 465 and 460. I take it you've already got the mount too for 100K? Even if you would have, you should still play the corruption lottery. It's also a faster way to get malefic cores than clearing Nya'lotha, but to each their own.

[Stardrift]

So how do you know how they play?

It's a fucking assumption you retard lol. An assumption based off of how well Blizzard is able to develop something to match their announcements and hype.

Come the release of Shadowlands, you'll see that I am right. You can quote me and put it as your signature for all I care.

[Lethius]

Personally I really like Horrific Visions and I don't play a spec which is particuarly suited to them.

What I do think is that Blizzard need to be careful in that they don't make something like visions a MUST do and then enforce a grind on every character you want to do them on. It's fine to make good gear available through visions or Torghast, but give people a free run once every 3-4 days or even once a week on each character and make sure alternatives are available.

What I like with the visions though is that for many specs they are hard enough that blizzard lets you get decent gear with them one your own; I don't really like doing pugs for M+ and often the times I could do M+ with my guild aren't great for me, so visions were an extra way for me to catch up (on my main at least) in my own time.

The fact is you don't have to like every type of content Blizzard puts out, but if they offer a choice of approaches everyone can find what they like best.

[Ersula]

How on earth can you be finished with everything in Visions? You should do the 5 mask at least 3 times a week and see what corruptions you get on your 470, 465 and 460. I take it you've already got the mount too for 100K? Even if you would have, you should still play the corruption lottery. It's also a faster way to get malefic cores than clearing Nya'lotha, but to each their own.

I've finished the skill tree & have done a full clear. I've experienced everything in them. They can't surprise me with anything new. But combine Visions & Island expedition which is what Torghast is, & that will be content that keeps me engaged even longer.

[valax]

I supposed you missed the point that a key feature of Torghast is that it'll be different every run - Visions aren't. Plus it's not timed so you can take as long as you like - so you can play whatever you like.

if different every run is Expedition Islands kind of different every run I'm gonna have a problem with that