LFR N'zoth--Don't bother until the inevitable nerf

[Nurmat]

Very strange nerfs, no word about mind control and sanity

[Powerogue]

I just popped into a group with 10 stacks that had wiped like 20 times. The best attempt was getting him to 70%. Seriously don't bother until they nerf it.

I'm banking hard I was in the same raid. I made a macro telling them to use their necklace every time they enter/exit the portal to keep it topped up.

5 dps down. Every cycle. I don't know if people are actually queuing severely mentally handicapped, speaking different languages, something. I've done LFR Kil'jaeden and even then once we maxed the stacks it was eventually possible. 10,000% perseverance boosts wouldn't help these people.

I'm trying to think what sort of nerfs could get these troggs to be capable of doing the fight:
-making the sanity drain scale with your cloak wouldn't help, they barely have one. Do it anyway.
-make insane people go back to being sane when damaged below 20% health
-remove entire mechanic of having to leave below phase, instantly kicked back to phys realm once the miniboss dies
-halve the number of giant tentacles that need tanked or just straight up remove their "bash if no one's in melee" thing
-New adds in last phase? Naw son. Remove those.
-make determination stack to 100

Maybe, all of that together, my group could've beaten it.

[meroko]

I gave it a try, just to see how terrible it is. Don't waste your time right now with LFR N'zoth, even with the March 11 hotfixes. The main reason is that no matter how many times you tell people to use their cloak or click their body, they either die from not clicking their body or getting MC'ed. Then we kick the people who can't get it, and you get a fresh new people who likely don't understand the mechanic either.

I came in already at 10 stacks of Determination, just to see if we could guide a group to complete it. After about 15 tries on top of those 10 stacks before I joined, we could only manage to get around 60% of the raid to do the fight properly, and even at 10 stacks that wasn't enough.

For LFR, that's just a clear indicator it's overtuned. I personally don't think it is, but generally in LFR, as sad as it is, it should be killable by a certain percentage of the raid, whereas the rest can be stupid and die.

The only way I see this fight being killable, honestly...is lowering the overall damage and flat out removing the MC mechanic...now it is week 1, so that last statement might be a bit too far, but for the foreseeable few future, maybe the next month until more people learn and understand the fight, I don't see any group downing it unless it's either a premade or somehow coordinated through voice means, or you get lucky and get enough people to actually stick around for the wipes and learn the fight and understand it...the way LFR was originally intended to do...teach you the base mechanics of a fight.

[W1shm4ster]

I find it fucking funny.

The WoW LFR community just wants free loot every time they join anything? The boss really isn't hard at all and you can full well demand them to actually do something for their loot, even in LFR, you can't expect free stuff everytime.

Also...not having cloak just seems lazy as hell, why would you not get the cloak and then actually complain that you need it?

They should just tune down his numbers if they really have to, but they shouldn't make LFR even more braindead than it already is

[Hctaz]

I mean, LFR isn't as easy as BWL in classic. Apart from the cloak, there are going to be a lot of wipes.

Isn't as easy??? LOL

Heroic mode raids are about the level of difficulty of a Classic raid. Easily cleared in 1 night by the guilds who actually put forth the effort. Please try putting LFR BWL together and seeing how that goes.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

I find it fucking funny.

The WoW LFR community just wants free loot every time they join anything? The boss really isn't hard at all and you can full well demand them to actually do something for their loot, even in LFR, you can't expect free stuff everytime.

Also...not having cloak just seems lazy as hell, why would you not get the cloak and then actually complain that you need it?

They should just tune down his numbers if they really have to, but they shouldn't make LFR even more braindead than it already is

I mean. I do LFR once, each wing to see the story. I don't give a shit about the loot. So forgive me if I don't really wanna deal with some brain dead idiots who had trouble doing the anniversary raid bosses with almost decades-old raids, expecting they can do NEW bosses just so I'm able to see the current story and complete the questline. I thought LFR was for people like me. The gear isn't exactly anything to write home about, though some weapons with the corruption abilities might be kinda nice.

Also, I can understand some people not getting the cloak if they have lotsa alts. The questline isn't exactly short, especially after the 3rd or 4th time. Bad enough you need to unlock the invasions first. It's probably a good 2 hours each. Not exactly something I'd call enjoyable.

- - - Updated - - -

Isn't as easy??? LOL

Heroic mode raids are about the level of difficulty of a Classic raid. Easily cleared in 1 night by the guilds who actually put forth the effort. Please try putting LFR BWL together and seeing how that goes.

I imagine it'd go pretty damn fast. I wouldn't exactly compare the old raids to half the LFRs nowadays.

[terminaltrip421]

I certainly hope those aren't mains that somehow don't have the cloak yet...

every one of my 19 toons has it. essences are another story... also I'm so casual I don't even have an interest in LFR.

- - - Updated - - -

You know I was just saying to a friend last night as I concluded my "vacation from WoW" sabbatical in FFXIV that FFXIV kinda over-regulates and over-gates a lot of their content behind actual skill tests and story steps. The community of that game fully supports the idea because it weeds out "people that shouldn't be grouping with other people," letting them have their reputation of "surface friendliness" because the game, not the community, makes sure you "get good" before you "burden others with your newness." You prety much have to hope your friends can pass the story tests to join you on guild raid night haha. In contrast, WoW is generally pretty free reign, leaving us with the freedom to suffer and berate each other, leading to things like raider.io. In this situation, FFXIV wouldn't even let you go near the raid without the full cloak quest, and probably some solo scenario, potentially cast vehicle-like as another character/class, to experience some of the mechanics alone haha!

Pros and cons in both approaches, but this is a perfect example of FFXIV's lean being perhaps a little more desired!

when they had the trials to group (MOP? WOD?) they were overtuned. I'm an overly-competent player and legitimately struggled to some degree with them. blizz just aren't overly-competent game managers.

[hulkgor]

....the funny thing is the cloak is LITERALLY handed to you...I mean you have to go do a semi long questline but its nothing difficult AND they LITERALLY hand you this cloak

"Literally hand you the cloak" \\ "have to go do a semi long questline"

Hmmm... one is not like the other.

[Alvito]

I'm actually amazed they kept the cloak requirement in.

I can't tell if it's laziness, unwarranted optimism, or a sick satisfaction watching the ants cannibalize themselves that made that decision.

I doubt many of them even thought about just how little effort many put into getting characters ready to do things like LFR. I know for myself I forgot about the cloak thing and almost took a character in without one trying to get a weapon. I have zero desire to do anymore of the cloak stuff on my mythic raiding characters much less some rarely played alt. If somebody hadn't mentioned seeing 7 to 10 stack buffed groups and explaining how people were either coming in without cloaks or taking them off just to troll the group I wouldn't have thought about it at all.

[Goge]

when they had the trials to group (MOP? WOD?) they were overtuned. I'm an overly-competent player and legitimately struggled to some degree with them. blizz just aren't overly-competent game managers.

The proving grounds?
Where you had to do the "silver" difficulty to be able to queue for content and the LFR community was outraged and that silver was "too hard",
all but confirming none of them know a dps rotation or have their interrupt button keybound.

LFR is the place where hopes and dreams go to die and that will never change.

[terminaltrip421]

The proving grounds?
Where you had to do the "silver" difficulty to be able to queue for content and the LFR community was outraged and that silver was "too hard",
all but confirming none of them know a dps rotation or have their interrupt button keybound.

LFR is the place where hopes and dreams go to die and that will never change.

heroics. I don't recall whether they had a part in LFR. and again, I rarely see anyone who I think is legitimately more competent than me when pugging. I play a dps spec for every class which will at times lead me to forget the full extent of one's toolkit but I should have zero trouble when putting my mind to it and while successful with the proving grounds on every toon some classes were at a greater disadvantage by a lot and this was also after a pruning where we lost a lot of our cc and such. it was definitely overtuned and not representative of the content it was unlocking. even now the most difficult content is just mobs throwing as many high damage abilities in short succession as they can, not anything that can actually be mitigated because blizz are just the ultimate trolls of game design.

[Mysterymask]

"Literally hand you the cloak" \\ "have to go do a semi long questline"

Hmmm... one is not like the other.

Which basically equates to talk to this dude, talk to that dude, do the thing you probably did on your alts a handful of times, talk to another dude, do a few easy scenarios....i mean i agree it sucks hardcore on an alt but its not like trying to get the essences on your alt terrible....still dont understand why they didnt have a "hey ive done this before gimmie cloak" option like they had for literally every mandatory world content attunement in legion....but eh

[Asaliah]

Did yesterday, one or two wipes to get the strat then easy peasy

[terminaltrip421]

Sorry but if you found the proving grounds silver being difficult, I am not so sure you are an 'overly competent' player.
I had no problem even as feral-dps beating gold, it was just about knowing when to use your cooldowns and cc's correctly.

congratulations on doing it with one spec for one class? as I said I've been doing at least one dps spec for every class. write back when you also did it on a mage etc. feral hasn't been under-tuned since wrath and even then it was middling. and "using cooldowns and cc's correctly" is an over-simplification and I don't know what the deal is but this board is full of people over-selling their accomplishments or the ease with which they do things. I bet you don't even remember the talent system in place then. I remember specific talents were a must for completing them. and considering people apparently complained enough to have them disappeared that's a lot of people and at a time well before the game was as dumbed-down as it is now.

I progression raided as both tank (feral, pre-split obviously, my first main) and dps during TBC and quit after but had people basically beg me to heal their raids (and so did) based on my dungeon play at a time when there was no such thing as group finder. if I know the mechanics you can bet that in a pug there's a high probability I'll be the last DPS standing. I know you're just a run of the mill 'talking out of your ass' e-peen flexer who clearly never has difficulty with anything so I'll end my end of the conversation here.

[Garymorilix]

That's probably just conflating groups of people, to be honest. I'm not into LFR'ing stuff, but I still prefer more difficult pulls in m+ to a timer, since I just don't like rushing through stuff. Most people playing LFR are probably not saying anything anywhere you could hear it to begin with, since most of them aren't on boards like this one.
And even among the people here you will see posts from people that do not mind the encounter being more difficult in and of itself. Even people who do LFR only may enjoy a bit of a challenge now and then. Lots of those kind of people just aren't into organized raiding anymore. No, the problem isn't really that the encounter has difficult mechanics, but rather that it can't really be carried in its current stage. You can't really save people from their mistakes and you can't do it with a few better people if a lot of bad ones died. That is not necessarily the difficulty that people seek when they think something too easy, to be honest. The difficulty here comes through the means of groupfinding, rather than the encounter itself, if that makes sense. If someone was forced to create normal or HC pug but with the caveat they have to invite anyone with above bare minimum ilvl and the right role, it would be just as bad, tbh.
Ironically, LFR can often be much harder than pugging exactly because of that. Pugs just filter so hard by experience and gear that failure is much less likely is all.

Bullshit.

The thread was literally made because OP experienced that people are so fckin bad they cant do a simple quest chain to get an item that is basically BiS for the rest of the expac.

At this point any argument sayin these ppl want difficulty is null and void.

And by the way, the timer in m+ is the difficulty. You can go ahead and BL every single trash mob in a +25 if you want but i doubt you ever went above a +5 anyways.

[KaPe]

So why exactly doesn't killing Psychus automatically remove people from his realm? That's how it used to work with most such mechanics on LFR - the usual "enter this portal to do X" is changed to automatically suck people in and then return them to raid. Then just refill the sanity bar after each Psychus death and it's closer to the actual LFR level.

[Aleksej89]

Nothing is worse than lord stormsong in normal dungeons.

Despite explaining all the tactics about that moronic boss there is a minimum of 3 wipes before normal lord stormsong can be killed - unless your party has 3 120 dps who will kill boss before the mind bender.

[TickTickTick]

Nothing is worse than lord stormsong in normal dungeons.

Despite explaining all the tactics about that moronic boss there is a minimum of 3 wipes before normal lord stormsong can be killed - unless your party has 3 120 dps who will kill boss before the mind bender.

Priestess in Atal'Dazar ????? Recently I leveled a char from 110-120 and the other 4 just didn't soak the pools before transfusion. After like 5 minutes of the boss healing to full I asked them if they know what is the strat and they replied "No" lmao. Not once having a thought that perhaps there's something they are doing wrong if the fight lasts so long and boss keeps healing to full.

@OT: I'm really surprised how dumb this community is, really. People feel so entitled to have everything handed to them, to get good gear with no effort. But when they are presented with a cloak on par with mythic raid gear... they just don't get it. Like, make up your mind, fools.

[Marrilaife]

It’s funny how there’s usually a shortage of tanks, and yet dps, even in the lowest form of content, expect the tanks they get to spend time researching all content to the point of mastery before they do it even once.

Totally unrealistic.

Yep that's EXACTLY why there's a shortage of tanks, dps can be semi-afk on follow, but tank should know everything before even steps into lfr or normal dungeon. That's why nobody wants to do it they'd rather just swap to dps and go brain shutdown mode. Especially in casual content where people wanna chill and relax and not have people whine on them about route they took in a dungeon. Yes in higher level of content you need good dps to succeed but in bottom level content nobody cares unless you hit hard enrage on something which mostly won't happen as people will wipe to mechanics first.

[Kiri]

Bullshit.

The thread was literally made because OP experienced that people are so fckin bad they cant do a simple quest chain to get an item that is basically BiS for the rest of the expac.

At this point any argument sayin these ppl want difficulty is null and void.

And by the way, the timer in m+ is the difficulty. You can go ahead and BL every single trash mob in a +25 if you want but i doubt you ever went above a +5 anyways.

The argument isn't that people who don't even bother to want cloak want difficulty though. It's that not everyone wanting more difficulty, even among those who do LFR, is one of those people, and therefore their opinions shouldn't be discarded as "bullshit".

And the timer adds to the difficulty, yes, but it isn't the only thing contributing. I mean, you could BL every trash pull in old, actually hard heroic dungeons and raids some xpacks in the past too, but no one really did that. Just like an enrage timer on a boss, it's just a contributing factor, but not the only thing that makes it difficult.
Then again, you are the kind of person who just assumes that someone disliking timers is bad at it, so I am probably wasting my time. People who want to look down on others are usually not very receptive to arguments, logic or facts that threaten that view.