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  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Smeller View Post
    So just because you can only go LFR you should deal with lazy ppl and/or trolls who went in there without their cloak?
    How is that different than any other wing? and you can't queue without your cloak anymore

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by Smeller View Post
    I would be with you if all of LFR was like that. But you can't have every other boss be killable by rolling your head on the keyboard and one that requires some kind of game sense. It just doesn't work that way. Either have no curve or an easy curve but N'Zoth is a step up that's too high for that mode.

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    So just because you can only go LFR you should deal with lazy ppl and/or trolls who went in there without their cloak?

    ....yall act like this wasnt a thing since LFR was a thing

    Remember when people used to summon the raid to Mally during the cutscene before Hagara

    Or the shenigans on Spine

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Danvash View Post
    Any LFR boss with too much personal responsibility is overtuned. I say this as a mythic raider who wants things to be hard at the top level. There's a time and place for everything, and random LFR content is not the place for a high level of difficulty.

    First there was Dark Animus (later nerfed), then Garrosh (nerfed), then Archimonde (nerfed), then Kil'jaeden, then G'huun. You'd think they'd have learned their lesson by now that a sizeable proportion of the people we get grouped with on American realms don't even speak English much less will listen to strategies and take on a responsibility that is required to kill the boss.

    What they should be going for in LFR tuning is to let a small number of people who know the mechanics carry the fight if needed. The people who are doing their jobs in the raid while others are AFK or dead are also being punished by it, and there's nothing they can do about it. They can either leave and waste more time requeuing or stay for another 8 stacks of determination which might still not be enough.

    Failing mechanics in LFR should kill your character, not wipe the entire raid. And enrage timers should be generous enough that many people can fail and others can still down the boss.
    I don’t disagree with anything you said and I think that the changes you proposed should apply to a lesser extent to normal and heroic.

    But that can’t happen as long as power inflation remains out of control. Eventually everyone’s gear gets so good that the only way you wipe is mechanics that kill multiple people.

    We’ve ended up in this nihilistic world where everyone keeps getting more and more and more powerful, but all that power doesn’t matter if random raider x doesn’t run the bomb away from the raid.

    It’s super depressing as a healer. You can do like 3 times the hps you need but none of that actually matters, you still wipe when people fail mechanics.

    The game didn’t really start to reach this extreme until the past 2-3 expansions, and it sucks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  4. #304
    I miss MoP LFR. It was a perfect balance of skill vs reward. You got really good rewards but the bosses were tough. I felt it was a perfect springboard into harder difficulties.

  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by NabyBro View Post
    This is literally why you do not adapt content to the LFR community.

    They are the ones saying sh*t like "the m+ timer is bad, I want more difficulty not a timer" and "raids are too easy" and when you see they never even did a normal boss they go "but its the same boss on every difficulty, so I killed it already".

    They do not know what they want. They actually want the exact opposite. The moment you make them do difficult content they quit.
    Apparently now it is even too much to ask to do the intro quest of 8.3 that gives you the cloak (1 hour tops).

    And anyone really thinks these people should have a say in how the game is designed? Nah fam.
    That's probably just conflating groups of people, to be honest. I'm not into LFR'ing stuff, but I still prefer more difficult pulls in m+ to a timer, since I just don't like rushing through stuff. Most people playing LFR are probably not saying anything anywhere you could hear it to begin with, since most of them aren't on boards like this one.
    And even among the people here you will see posts from people that do not mind the encounter being more difficult in and of itself. Even people who do LFR only may enjoy a bit of a challenge now and then. Lots of those kind of people just aren't into organized raiding anymore. No, the problem isn't really that the encounter has difficult mechanics, but rather that it can't really be carried in its current stage. You can't really save people from their mistakes and you can't do it with a few better people if a lot of bad ones died. That is not necessarily the difficulty that people seek when they think something too easy, to be honest. The difficulty here comes through the means of groupfinding, rather than the encounter itself, if that makes sense. If someone was forced to create normal or HC pug but with the caveat they have to invite anyone with above bare minimum ilvl and the right role, it would be just as bad, tbh.
    Ironically, LFR can often be much harder than pugging exactly because of that. Pugs just filter so hard by experience and gear that failure is much less likely is all.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    As the title suggests, LFR N'zoth is the raid killer this time around. First you have to spend 5 minutes kicking everyone who doesn't have the cloak, since it's a REQUIREMENT for this part of the raid. Then you have to spend another 10 minutes kicking the new people who joined without cloaks and then explaining the mechanics of the various phases...then immediately wipe because people aren't clicking on their bodies at the end of p1, or aren't replenishing their sanity when they emerge.

    The LFR I was just in wiped 17 times before I decided to call it quits, and they BARELY got N'zoth down to 90% the second time he was vulnerable. After that half the raid almost immediately died due to various mechanics that they weren't paying attention to.

    4-5 people left after each wipe, which kicked off the whole "kick those without cloaks and explain the raid" thing every time. I spent 3 hours on that one boss that--while difficult--should not be so impossible for LFR.

    I fully expect that Blizz will either block people from queueing if they don't have the cloak or reduce the sanity drain of various abilities as well as possibly reducing the health of N'zoth and/or Psychus by the time next week rolls around. It's simply nigh impossible to do with a random group as it stands.
    Hahaha I'm so glad I'm not playing this dumpster fire of a game right now.
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2020-03-12 at 05:56 AM. Reason: Infracted

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by Culex View Post
    Hahaha I'm so glad I'm not playing this dumpster fire of a game right now.
    Just posting to mock/look smug. Very helpful to the thread.

  8. #308
    I just popped into a group with 10 stacks that had wiped like 20 times. The best attempt was getting him to 70%. Seriously don't bother until they nerf it.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by Pratt View Post
    I just popped into a group with 10 stacks that had wiped like 20 times. The best attempt was getting him to 70%. Seriously don't bother until they nerf it.
    Agreed. Been joinin' groups like that allll day.

  10. #310
    Quote Originally Posted by Outofmana View Post
    The only time LFR was tuned properly was in Pandaria @ Throne of Thunder; it was perfect. After that, you had undertuned braindead WoD and now the retardedly overtuned N"Zoth.
    Image saying that and know that even normal mode is 3x harder I almost fall asleep of how boring the fight on our mythic reclear was with the cloak nerfing it every week
    BFA Season 3


  11. #311
    Well Blizzard are patching the game now to make it so if you don't have the cloak you can't get into the last wing.

    Incoming QQ threads about it in 5. 4. 3. 2. 1

  12. #312
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    If you can't be arsed doing 1 hour quest chain that's the bread and butter of the patch that ties into all content, to be honest you don't deserve to do that content.

  13. #313
    Very strange nerfs, no word about mind control and sanity

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Pratt View Post
    I just popped into a group with 10 stacks that had wiped like 20 times. The best attempt was getting him to 70%. Seriously don't bother until they nerf it.
    I'm banking hard I was in the same raid. I made a macro telling them to use their necklace every time they enter/exit the portal to keep it topped up.

    5 dps down. Every cycle. I don't know if people are actually queuing severely mentally handicapped, speaking different languages, something. I've done LFR Kil'jaeden and even then once we maxed the stacks it was eventually possible. 10,000% perseverance boosts wouldn't help these people.

    I'm trying to think what sort of nerfs could get these troggs to be capable of doing the fight:
    -making the sanity drain scale with your cloak wouldn't help, they barely have one. Do it anyway.
    -make insane people go back to being sane when damaged below 20% health
    -remove entire mechanic of having to leave below phase, instantly kicked back to phys realm once the miniboss dies
    -halve the number of giant tentacles that need tanked or just straight up remove their "bash if no one's in melee" thing
    -New adds in last phase? Naw son. Remove those.
    -make determination stack to 100

    Maybe, all of that together, my group could've beaten it.
    Last edited by Powerogue; 2020-03-12 at 03:33 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  15. #315
    I gave it a try, just to see how terrible it is. Don't waste your time right now with LFR N'zoth, even with the March 11 hotfixes. The main reason is that no matter how many times you tell people to use their cloak or click their body, they either die from not clicking their body or getting MC'ed. Then we kick the people who can't get it, and you get a fresh new people who likely don't understand the mechanic either.

    I came in already at 10 stacks of Determination, just to see if we could guide a group to complete it. After about 15 tries on top of those 10 stacks before I joined, we could only manage to get around 60% of the raid to do the fight properly, and even at 10 stacks that wasn't enough.

    For LFR, that's just a clear indicator it's overtuned. I personally don't think it is, but generally in LFR, as sad as it is, it should be killable by a certain percentage of the raid, whereas the rest can be stupid and die.

    The only way I see this fight being killable, honestly...is lowering the overall damage and flat out removing the MC mechanic...now it is week 1, so that last statement might be a bit too far, but for the foreseeable few future, maybe the next month until more people learn and understand the fight, I don't see any group downing it unless it's either a premade or somehow coordinated through voice means, or you get lucky and get enough people to actually stick around for the wipes and learn the fight and understand it...the way LFR was originally intended to do...teach you the base mechanics of a fight.

  16. #316
    High Overlord W1shm4ster's Avatar
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    I find it fucking funny.

    The WoW LFR community just wants free loot every time they join anything? The boss really isn't hard at all and you can full well demand them to actually do something for their loot, even in LFR, you can't expect free stuff everytime.

    Also...not having cloak just seems lazy as hell, why would you not get the cloak and then actually complain that you need it?

    They should just tune down his numbers if they really have to, but they shouldn't make LFR even more braindead than it already is
    Sig by Thor

  17. #317
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    I mean, LFR isn't as easy as BWL in classic. Apart from the cloak, there are going to be a lot of wipes.
    Isn't as easy??? LOL

    Heroic mode raids are about the level of difficulty of a Classic raid. Easily cleared in 1 night by the guilds who actually put forth the effort. Please try putting LFR BWL together and seeing how that goes.

  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by W1shm4ster View Post
    I find it fucking funny.

    The WoW LFR community just wants free loot every time they join anything? The boss really isn't hard at all and you can full well demand them to actually do something for their loot, even in LFR, you can't expect free stuff everytime.

    Also...not having cloak just seems lazy as hell, why would you not get the cloak and then actually complain that you need it?

    They should just tune down his numbers if they really have to, but they shouldn't make LFR even more braindead than it already is
    I mean. I do LFR once, each wing to see the story. I don't give a shit about the loot. So forgive me if I don't really wanna deal with some brain dead idiots who had trouble doing the anniversary raid bosses with almost decades-old raids, expecting they can do NEW bosses just so I'm able to see the current story and complete the questline. I thought LFR was for people like me. The gear isn't exactly anything to write home about, though some weapons with the corruption abilities might be kinda nice.

    Also, I can understand some people not getting the cloak if they have lotsa alts. The questline isn't exactly short, especially after the 3rd or 4th time. Bad enough you need to unlock the invasions first. It's probably a good 2 hours each. Not exactly something I'd call enjoyable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    Isn't as easy??? LOL

    Heroic mode raids are about the level of difficulty of a Classic raid. Easily cleared in 1 night by the guilds who actually put forth the effort. Please try putting LFR BWL together and seeing how that goes.
    I imagine it'd go pretty damn fast. I wouldn't exactly compare the old raids to half the LFRs nowadays.
    Last edited by Dead Moose Fandango; 2020-03-12 at 04:30 AM.

  19. #319
    Stood in the Fire terminaltrip421's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Very Tired View Post
    I certainly hope those aren't mains that somehow don't have the cloak yet...
    every one of my 19 toons has it. essences are another story... also I'm so casual I don't even have an interest in LFR.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Omedon View Post
    You know I was just saying to a friend last night as I concluded my "vacation from WoW" sabbatical in FFXIV that FFXIV kinda over-regulates and over-gates a lot of their content behind actual skill tests and story steps. The community of that game fully supports the idea because it weeds out "people that shouldn't be grouping with other people," letting them have their reputation of "surface friendliness" because the game, not the community, makes sure you "get good" before you "burden others with your newness." You prety much have to hope your friends can pass the story tests to join you on guild raid night haha. In contrast, WoW is generally pretty free reign, leaving us with the freedom to suffer and berate each other, leading to things like raider.io. In this situation, FFXIV wouldn't even let you go near the raid without the full cloak quest, and probably some solo scenario, potentially cast vehicle-like as another character/class, to experience some of the mechanics alone haha!

    Pros and cons in both approaches, but this is a perfect example of FFXIV's lean being perhaps a little more desired!
    when they had the trials to group (MOP? WOD?) they were overtuned. I'm an overly-competent player and legitimately struggled to some degree with them. blizz just aren't overly-competent game managers.
    Last edited by terminaltrip421; 2020-03-12 at 05:38 AM.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    ....the funny thing is the cloak is LITERALLY handed to you...I mean you have to go do a semi long questline but its nothing difficult AND they LITERALLY hand you this cloak
    "Literally hand you the cloak" \\ "have to go do a semi long questline"

    Hmmm... one is not like the other.

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