LFR N'zoth--Don't bother until the inevitable nerf

[Zantera]

I feel like LFR used to at least serve a purpose which is now entirely gone. I mean mythic 0s give equal loot - take less time (and you get more loot per time invested), Emissaries and things like Warfronts are more lucrative. You don't get the raid quest in BFA anymore that some people completed in LFR to get loot, and at this point it arguably takes longer to clear all the LFR wings than it does to clear normal.

If anyone feels super passionate about LFR and does it weekly that's fine, but wouldn't you get more enjoyment out of doing normal instead?

[rhorle]

Maybe it doesn't for you. But for others it sdoes as it is their progression.

It is pretty easy to get to a point where LFR will provide side grades at best. Gearing has shifted from raids to multiple sources. LFR hasn't really adapted to that environment where its gear is less of an incentive when the target audience can get equal or greater from doing other tasks. There is no easy fix because other sources of gear isn't a bad thing.

[Malkiah]

If anyone feels super passionate about LFR and does it weekly that's fine, but wouldn't you get more enjoyment out of doing normal instead?

no. no, they wouldn't. that's why they do LFR.
(the rest of this post is me rambling my thoughts on the subject and is not directed at you personally, zantera)

the complete inability of some people to even wrap their brains around the idea that other people have thoughts different from theirs has always astounded me.

LFR is just the next step up in queued content after heroic dungeons, merely a continuation of that system. it also serves a design purpose of filling in a gap in character progression that gets created over the course of an expansion by people finishing what is effectively leveling content, making it difficult or impossible for new characters to progress naturally.
it might not be the most elegant solution nor a perfect one, but LFR absolutely serves a function both in terms of character progression (for certain segments of the playerbase) and for narrative purposes.

and, it's utterly irrelevant to people who don't use it, despite all the pissing and moaning about it that MMOC jagoffs insist on clinging to after all these years.

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1. How does LFR impact this? It's not like guilds are running LFR, they still raid normal-heroic-mythic. LFR doesnt impact the guilds in any way.

the logic of these people goes like this:
A. people that run LFR are stupid useless pieces of shit who just AFK and want free loot and are ruining the game.
B. all the high ilevel tryhards that should be joining my guild and making us able to do mythic are instead doing LFR, which made my guild die and is ruining the game.
C. dur hur. paint chips are delicious.

[Greyvax]

Possibly yeah, but all the pugs are the usual "HC link curve must have brain ilvl 9000 plz!"-shit.

The purpose of listing those requirements is to scare away bads and fails. People who are confident in their gaming abilities will apply anyway and be invited and be successful.

[Venziir]

The purpose of listing those requirements is to scare away bads and fails. People who are confident in their gaming abilities will apply anyway and be invited and be successful.

You honestly believe that? Cute.

[tehealadin]

I did it once. I admit I didn't read any tactics as I thought "LFR LOL". Entered at 5 stacks. We finished it at max stacks, after a few attempts at max. Not gonna lie, I ballsed up on my first attempt, but after that I got the flow of things. A few of us took some control and explained things before the next pulls, raid leader even led, spamming macros for people reminding them of things. Whilst things got better after each attempt, there was still a core of people who got MC'd. Didn't help that the DPS was fairly low, there were only 3 of us doing good DPS, but to be fair we outgeared LFR (this is the only expact where I haven't raided on normal or above, would normally clear most raids on normal and have a good chunk of the bosses down in HC, but work has been too hectic to really stick to raiding), but I got the feeling that there was a core who not only couldn't get the fight mechanics, but also how to play their class (too many couldn't get above 10k DPS, which with LFR ready gear should be achievable fairly easily), though that is the gamble with LFR. Still, I actually kind of enjoyed seeing the group fail then fail better until we got it. It was frustrating at times to see the same people make the same mistakes, but enough improved that those people weren't enough to wipe us.

[Lanthanum]

I was really expecting a nerf by now. In my opinion, spending 2-3 hours on the final wing of LFR (only 2 bosses) is unacceptable. That is not what LFR is there for.

Also, why does Blizz have this obsession with long fights. I have hit the beserk timer numerous times on Carapace and that is at 14mins. It is so demoralizing to get that far and then wipe. I was in that wing today on my Balance Druid for 1.5 hours and still didn't finish it. Three wipes on carapace and then six on N'Zoth before I left. Most of the problems seem to occur in the first third of the fight. I think some tweaks there would help.

[Schizoide]

Yep, it's really surprising and a serious disservice to casual players.

[Sencha]

People still do this shitfest that is lfr?

[Rhila]

They need to just decide what they want LFR to be.
They have already gutted the rewards so reguar players have no reason to run it. There is no reason at all to make it this difficult to clear.

As it stands most people doing lfr are new characters looking for gear and people just wanting to finish the storyline off, nobody wants a challenging lfr.

[pansertjald]

People still do this shitfest that is lfr?

People still shit post stupid comments like this?

Oh i see they do

[Zantera]

LFR's purpose was and has allways been to be a way for casuals to see raid-content foremost, and a way to obtain gear secondly.

If they wanted to change anything they would have done it already, people just have to man up and get better.
There are a plethora of resources that explains what to do on each raid-encounter in the game.

You're not wrong but I think it's fair to say LFR filled a bigger role in the past, serving as a sort of middle step between 5-man heroics and making the jump into real raiding. With added loot sources such as WQs/Emissaries, Mythic dungeons (both m0 and m+) as well as Warfronts, LFR no longer fills that role. As for the "tourist mode" to see the raid, that's a fair point but then again with how Ny'alotha LFR turned out, you could argue it's easier experienced through normal than LFR.

[Beefhammer]

I feel like LFR used to at least serve a purpose which is now entirely gone. I mean mythic 0s give equal loot - take less time (and you get more loot per time invested), Emissaries and things like Warfronts are more lucrative. You don't get the raid quest in BFA anymore that some people completed in LFR to get loot, and at this point it arguably takes longer to clear all the LFR wings than it does to clear normal.

If anyone feels super passionate about LFR and does it weekly that's fine, but wouldn't you get more enjoyment out of doing normal instead?

1, it may have to do with not wanting to join a guild. 2, I tried a normal PUG entitled NO DRAMA FAST RUN. After the first boss I was kicked due to low DPS, even-though I told them I hadn't played since WoD and just got my character to 420 that day. We had no problem killing it very quickly with no deaths. So you have that issue going on with PUGs.

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You're not wrong but I think it's fair to say LFR filled a bigger role in the past, serving as a sort of middle step between 5-man heroics and making the jump into real raiding. With added loot sources such as WQs/Emissaries, Mythic dungeons (both m0 and m+) as well as Warfronts, LFR no longer fills that role. As for the "tourist mode" to see the raid, that's a fair point but then again with how Ny'alotha LFR turned out, you could argue it's easier experienced through normal than LFR.

But LFR has always been like that. The average WoW player just plain sucks. There is no easy way of saying that. Most do not understand any mechanic, don't understand interrupting, not standing in shit, how to use defensive abilities. Hell N'zoth is the perfect example. The part where you clear the floor before he pulls or pushes you away, you have obvious markers of whether you are going to be pulled into the boss or be pulled out to the edge. Yet people always want to go to the edge expecting to pulled in ever time. I don't just say this becasue of LFRs inception, players have been bad since day one. So most of these people using LFR would never make it in a PUG on normal.

[Schizoide]

When LFR loot was relevant to casual players, you did see a bit more competence. These days the rewards are completely worthless so the only people you see in LFR are doing it one time just to finish quests. That said, N'zoth LFR worse than any LFR boss has ever been in the history of the game-- and many of those easier bosses were nerfed to make them reasonable for LFR. N'zoth hasn't been. Why? Who knows.

[fraddyd]

The friend of mine reached the coolest boss in Ny'alotha raid. And I`m still loser. At first it seemed to me that the game is not so difficult. I read the description and watched the promos. I was ready to play. But it turned out to be much more complicated. Each time I fail..

[HailToTheKing]

One shotted N'Zoth just now with only a Spanish Mage dying, as is tradition.

It's really not as bad as you all make it out to be.

[the0o]

After all the hype I attempted to do this on my 461 lock, 460 hunter and 440 DK alt on a few separate occasions.

The fight isnt hard, just alot of moving parts, much more than LFR players are used too. The problem is players are treating it like the LFR of old, with a chuck of the players AFK or trolling or just ignorant. I keep a small log on some of the attempts. Do note that I didnt kill the boss, just wasted hours of my life.

Lock:
Attempt 1 - 3 wipes due to DPS afk (with two doing less total damage than a pally healer) and the raid not kicking them, not focusing basher and failing to restore sanity.
Attempt 2 - Zoned in with 7 determination stacks, 2 wipes due to trolling(?), 2-3 players were running away from there linked partner causing MCs.

Hunter
Attempt 1 - Zoned in with 5 determination stacks along with almost a whole new raid. 2 wipes due to 8+ MC before the first basher and afkers

DK
Attempt 1 - 4 wipes due to the same players from realms that we all know and hate failing to restore sanity and afk
Attempt 2 - Zoned in with 3-4 determination stacks, 3 wipes due to players failing to restore sanity.
Attempt 3 - 3 wipes due to people not understanding the tactics AND not listening with instructed on how to do the fight. not restoring sanity and afkers killing themselves.

Part of me likes the fact that LFR players now have to try but It is a little unfair to an unorganized group. If LFR continues into shadowlands, I would like to see the raid difficultly reduced a tad and the rewards ilevel greatly reduced (barely above heroics and just below a mythic 2-3)

[Gref]

because of time restraints, I could only play warrior main for years. I consider myself casual with max of 2 hours of play each day (if possible) due to wife and job. 12/12hc 3/12mythic and timnig +10-15 with careful planning each week.

after corona lock down however, I could level a 120. I took my rog to lfr, thinkingIt cannot be that bad as people say it to be.

holy fucking crap.

my god these people are lowest of the lowest. they are worse than horrible. and this is the base of world of warcraft, that pays the bills.
I could not believe the ineptitude of these people. wiped 7 times in total. I didnt explain anything to anybody as it was an observation for me as well. just wanted to see how bad they are. and oh boy ...

- running far away from themselves when paranoia linked
- keep hugging nzoth when he is pulling,
- big tentances and eyes left everywhere in dps phases.
- in a 30 man group absofuckinglutely 1 person interrupts and that is me. nobody knows they lose sanity when they get hit by those.
- people getting mindcontrolled, no idea about the BIG FUCKING BUTTON that they can use to save themselves.
- people dropping all the puddles everywhere.

if there was not a stacking buff It was clear as day, it is not possible to clear LFR. I understood that people are just bruteforcing it. nothing else.
it was a terrible experience and I lost all my respect for these people. I would not hire them for a job or even talk to them If I knew in rl.

got a headache enduring 7 attempts. I feel really sorry for myself to go trough lfr to gear up my alt as quick as I can. absolutely disgusting process.

[mojojojo202]

LFR's purpose was and has allways been to be a way for casuals to see raid-content foremost, and a way to obtain gear secondly.

If they wanted to change anything they would have done it already, people just have to man up and get better.
There are a plethora of resources that explains what to do on each raid-encounter in the game.

If that is the aim then LFR in BfA is a colossal failure.

It is insanely time consuming incredibly frustrating and unnecessarily difficult.

[Laughingjack]

If that is the aim then LFR in BfA is a colossal failure.

It is insanely time consuming incredibly frustrating and unnecessarily difficult.

LFR was always a colossal failure. It quickly became a way to shove gear down the worst of the player bases throats rather then trying to teach them anything.