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  1. #61
    Look. Just because a bill is named something doesnt mean that that it is written effectively or in the best method of achieving the goal. Did anyone read the bill? We can't just read 1 or 2 nice sounding bullet points and call for the gulags when it isnt voted for.

  2. #62
    Merely a Setback CommunismWillWin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Man, this "everyone I don't like/disagree with is a neoliberal" meme is running really ragged at this point.
    Good thing its not a meme then. And yeah, most people on the centre-right are neo-libs. So tough shit, unless you can find another rigth-wing group that pretends to be progressive.
    Joe Biden is a rapist and his supporters are rape apologists

  3. #63
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trifle View Post
    Small business in plenty of countries around the world seem to have no issue with being able to pay sick leave and other benefits to workers without going bankrupt. There's this really weird culture in America where people think that employees don't really need to be paid from startups (We'll pay you later when we grow!), to unpaid internships, to the whole tipping debacle.

    Admittedly if you take a business that's designed itself around a set of costs and then tell them that they all of a sudden have to pay a lot more, that's not going to work well. Which is the current situation. So government assistance is advisable right now... but in the longer term America really should take a good long look at it's employment laws, from an outside perspective they seem quite lacking.
    Which developed countries don't have government subsidized paid sick and maternity leave outside the United States? It was my understanding that most of Europe provides that kind of leave through the government, and that companies either don't pay for it at all or pay for only a portion.

    (obviously they pay for it indirectly through taxes...)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Look. Just because a bill is named something doesnt mean that that it is written effectively or in the best method of achieving the goal. Did anyone read the bill? We can't just read 1 or 2 nice sounding bullet points and call for the gulags when it isnt voted for.
    God forbid people have knowledge regarding what they're shrilling about. I do hate siding with a slimeball like Senator Alexander, but he did have a valid point.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PosPosPos View Post
    It's almost like those nations have actual anti-competition regulations and robust corporate tax laws in place to prevent big business from putting small business out of business so the latter can actually afford to pay their employees.

    Shocking, I know.

    Moral of the story: America sucks at navigating through cause-and-effect. At literally everything they do.
    Couldn't have said it better myself. The level of ignorance regarding small vs big business in even this thread is amazing.
    No one is above the law!

  4. #64
    People affected by losing time at work or the actual virus will still vote against their interest.
    “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States…. [It is] nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’”

    -Isaac Asimov

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Which developed countries don't have government subsidized paid sick and maternity leave outside the United States? It was my understanding that most of Europe provides that kind of leave through the government, and that companies either don't pay for it at all or pay for only a portion.
    Sick leave is the responsibility of the company in NZ/Australia at least, not sure about other countries. I apparently may have just been taking it for granted! NZ has a statutory 5 day minimum for sick leave per year, but many companies offer more (mine is 10 days). Australia has a 10 day minimum for 'personal leave', which includes sickness, bereavement etc.

    Maternity (parental) leave is a separate kettle of fish due to it's long term nature, that is paid by the government.

  6. #66
    So 1.5 trillion in corperate bailout due to the immediate problems of the Corona Virus is ok.

    But ensuring people arent afraid of missing work and thus fucking the econemy further by spreading it, is not ok?
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  7. #67
    Merely a Setback cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trifle View Post
    Sick leave is the responsibility of the company in NZ/Australia at least, not sure about other countries. I apparently may have just been taking it for granted! NZ has a statutory 5 day minimum for sick leave per year, but many companies offer more (mine is 10 days). Australia has a 10 day minimum for 'personal leave', which includes sickness, bereavement etc.

    Maternity (parental) leave is a separate kettle of fish due to it's long term nature, that is paid by the government.
    But do the companies get reimbursements from the government or other subsidies for that leave?
    No one is above the law!

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    So 1.5 trillion in corperate bailout due to the immediate problems of the Corona Virus is ok.

    But ensuring people arent afraid of missing work and thus fucking the econemy further by spreading it, is not ok?
    not a corporate bailout, not even close to a corporate bailout.

    actually won't give corporations anything they didn't already have access too.

    that's why the stock market dropped right back to where it was because its nothing that will directly help them
    Whether SHE IS INDICTED OR EVEN GUILTY IT DOESNT MATTER. HER GUILT IS A MOOT POINT!!! - Fox News 2016
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  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    But do the companies get reimbursements from the government or other subsidies for that leave?
    No, it's just a cost of doing business, same as paid annual leave etc (minimum 4 weeks per year for NZ).

  10. #70
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    They said that the employers were those with 500+ employees. So not small businesses, but the ideal is that the government pays for it.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    Look. Just because a bill is named something doesnt mean that that it is written effectively or in the best method of achieving the goal. Did anyone read the bill? We can't just read 1 or 2 nice sounding bullet points and call for the gulags when it isnt voted for.
    Exactly. And apparently there was a bunch of unrelated stuff the Dems were trying to cram thru in there as well. Never let a good crisis go to waste, I suppose.

    Oh, and I'm sure you'll be called a GOP shill for your reasonable take.

  12. #72
    I didnt ssupport sanders in the primary, but i really understand how his supporters feel when they see shit like this, we cant afford anything for poor people and low income workers-but then then jim cramer and cnbc get trump live on AIR to promise to give banks and big business a bailout.

    rugged individualism for the poor, socialism for the rich, my problem with my fellow progressives is they gotta understand even a milqtoast centrist dem is still 100x better than any R and they gotta vote for the nominee whoever

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Exactly. And apparently there was a bunch of unrelated stuff the Dems were trying to cram thru in there as well. Never let a good crisis go to waste, I suppose.

    Oh, and I'm sure you'll be called a GOP shill for your reasonable take.
    What stuff?
    While you live, shine / Have no grief at all / Life exists only for a short while / And time demands its toll.

  14. #74
    I am Murloc! Milchshake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukh View Post
    What stuff?
    Mar 11
    HouseDemocrats Coronavirus bill includes:

    ➤Free testing
    ➤14 days paid sick
    ➤Emergency paid leave
    ➤UI expansion
    ➤FMAP increase for states
    ➤Meals for kids whose schools close
    ➤Protections for health workers


    Fellow small business owners.... just kidding.
    But working for a number of small startups I would say this. You can't punt on important decisions. Make a decision and stick with it. Not making a decision is to lose valuable time.

    • Playing wait and see with Lamar or McConnell is a fool's errand.
    • Lending plausible deniability to Lamar or McConnell is a fool's errand.


    It's a fucking pandemic. It going to be a real shit show for working parents when our kids cant goto school.
    Welcome to GEN-OT, have a seat, we'll introduce you to the 23-year-old who will lecture you about how Democrats didn't try hard enough to improve the ACA, and once that's all set up you'll be assigned a socialist who supported Ron Paul up to 2015 to harass you forever.
    "Once bigotry or self-loathing permeate a given community, it is only a matter of time before deep metaphysical significance is assigned to the shape of human skulls."
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  15. #75
    I'm sorry, but is this some some American joke I'm too Nordic to understand?

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    I'm sorry, but is this some some American joke I'm too Nordic to understand?
    It's just another instance of the Right clutching their pearls going 'But who's going to pay for it?!'

    Only this time, just off screen, is a man shoveling a trillion and a half dollars into a furnace.

  17. #77
    [QUOTE=arandomuser;52175042]I didnt ssupport sanders in the primary, but i really understand how his supporters feel when they see shit like this, we cant afford anything for poor people and low income workers-but then then jim cramer and cnbc get trump live on AIR to promise to give banks and big business a bailout.

    rugged individualism for the poor, socialism for the rich, my problem with my fellow progressives is they gotta understand even a milqtoast centrist dem is still 100x better than any R and they gotta vote for the nominee whoever[/QUOTE]

    Yes that is true and all, but one thing to consider is that if this keeps going on and the voters always keep coming to the centrists rescue and never get anything back for it or just a few scraps everytime and the centrists Dems feel sure that the progressives will still come crawling and vote for them. I mean at some point they need to fucking earn the vote.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Exactly. And apparently there was a bunch of unrelated stuff the Dems were trying to cram thru in there as well. Never let a good crisis go to waste, I suppose.

    Oh, and I'm sure you'll be called a GOP shill for your reasonable take.
    So apparently you have the details...so share them please....
    Whether SHE IS INDICTED OR EVEN GUILTY IT DOESNT MATTER. HER GUILT IS A MOOT POINT!!! - Fox News 2016
    You don’t have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this Constitutional Republic,” - Sen (r) Graham 1999

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    So apparently you have the details...so share them please....
    the politics is just mindblowing...
    Near as I can tell so far, the GoP is trying to shoehorn the Hyde amendment into the coronavirus bill. Because without it, they think the dems are trying to add a backdoor way for abortions to be paid with federal funds.

    "Bad faith posters that just derail threads, best to just ignore these posters than to feed them:

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  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Exactly. And apparently there was a bunch of unrelated stuff the Dems were trying to cram thru in there as well. Never let a good crisis go to waste, I suppose.

    Oh, and I'm sure you'll be called a GOP shill for your reasonable take.
    waiting for details on those unrelated stuff please....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Exactly. And apparently there was a bunch of unrelated stuff the Dems were trying to cram thru in there as well. Never let a good crisis go to waste, I suppose.

    Oh, and I'm sure you'll be called a GOP shill for your reasonable take.
    Hello, find those details yet?


    OH wait you mean these?


    House Republicans Tried to Capitalize on Coronavirus to Sneak Anti-Abortion Language Into Law
    The Hyde amendment, once more, became a political football.


    Erik Wasson

    @elwasson

    A key sticking point in the talks appears to be GOP demands to include Hyde amendment language in the bill to prevent federal funds from being used for abortion

    12:01 PM - Mar 12, 2020
    Whether SHE IS INDICTED OR EVEN GUILTY IT DOESNT MATTER. HER GUILT IS A MOOT POINT!!! - Fox News 2016
    You don’t have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this Constitutional Republic,” - Sen (r) Graham 1999

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