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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    I only see some ADHD people using addons like heikili to help with rotation so they keep focus on their game and mesmerize stuff. Even tho i too have ADHD for some reason i never found this hard. I don't know besides those problems of not following well their focus, why people would use an addon to follow rotations (not judging anyone, but still), rotations are not all like it's a dummy, in fights you need to pay attention sometimes more on mechanics and your parses can go low, because you're saving cds, and happens for you, idk, to die, (yep many times people don't even do good parses cause they die all the time), or you just simply have some unfortunate time to do it and mechanics happen again... so a advice to all that doesn't have focusing problems: Don't EVER use rotation addons, what you do with my advice is up to you now.

    And Doffen, i don't want to put my nose on this conversation, but why assuming he payed boosts?
    Also, fml, Legion leggos, were the best, i will say it again, and again, and again. People will keep arguing with me, i will keep my own thoughts. It was freaking amazing, people could even change talents what they wanted, or even, specs. The only problem with specs, was the secondary stats, and that isn't problem of just the leggos, you could even have all leggos you want but secondary stats mattered so much for the synergy (and still does, a bit, but doesn't even compete with the corruption abilities, unfortunately)

    This was from his Antorus mythic kill, and he had killed 5 bosses from before. Not really a natural progression. And it happened 1 week before BfA pre-patch. It's pretty obvious.

    Yeah, leggos were awesome. And I am excited that we get a legendary in Shadowlands. Though I bet there will be some grind to get the pieces we want, but since we can target them(according to blizz) then I think it will be nice.
    - I will never be the Legion's pawn. And this tower will not be its den!

    Best Mage ever lived!

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post

    This was from his Antorus mythic kill, and he had killed 5 bosses from before. Not really a natural progression. And it happened 1 week before BfA pre-patch. It's pretty obvious.

    Yeah, leggos were awesome. And I am excited that we get a legendary in Shadowlands. Though I bet there will be some grind to get the pieces we want, but since we can target them(according to blizz) then I think it will be nice.
    Oh i saw that pic but i was confused.
    All i know is that with how the world is right now and this:


    that i'm not sure how the future will be with Shadowlands. It's cus, virus can't even be that bad compared to other things people die everyday, the only difference is that it doesn't spread and this does, globally. The panic is everywhere and some jobs are literally out of hand. It's not just about the virus, but the problem and panic people get from getting it. Everything is lockdown almost.

    That's why i don't understand how can people still focus so much in judging blizzard in a moment like this, or i'm just crazy...

    Anyhow xD I want to play SL, really. I mean, i bought my pre order, and the best edition. I want to try what i payed for i just don't know but, maybe, SL will take more time since they are at home working.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    No, just see how he tries to spin his idea for sidewinders being so good when it wasn't used after Emerald Nightmare/ToV(yeah, thats what inital means, first raids) if you wanted best dps. He then proceeds to show logs that not only shows he is wrong, he also lies about it lmao. He finds one parse among thousands that shows his "proof" of sidewinders being used in Nightold/ToS. I said it wasn't used after the initial launch, which was EN/TV then says I am lying about it. If it's used by 1 of 100 it doesn't mean it's the best one. Logic 101. And he was of course in a "friends" guild where he got boosted. And he has been saying for a couple of years that he has been in a top 1000 guild for the last years, when the fact is that he has bought two boosts in Legion.

    And he is the author for a rotation addon and has average 45.50% parses, I feel sorry for those who gets his addon. He loves 1 spec so much he is blind to whatever else is wrong with BfA. It's just a string of nonsense. Just nod and smile.

    "Throughout the expansion though, they're been reducing the gap between large RNG outliers such as legendaries. Ion thinks that the drop chance may not be the issue if Legendaries were all utility."
    This was Ions apology, if you could say it is an apology. That we are getting a legendary where we can target stuff in Shadowlands just says that they thought legendaries were cool, and Ion said it as well, "getting a legendary is exciting". If people thought legendaries were bad then we wouldn't have gotten this in Shadowlands. They took the bad stuff out and doubled up on the good stuff, that Legendaries were great for gameplay.
    No you just trying to weasel out of your lies yet again. Be a man and admit to your lies. You said sidewinders wasn't even used after initial launch. But it was.
    So that is a lie.

    You lied again saying people just by playing normally could get leggos quick, that was another lie, you farmed like crazy. And i suspect you still didn't finish all the leggos in 5-6 months because from what you said, 5-6 months and you had them all. Another lie.

    How can anyone take you seriously if you lie so much?

    "if they could turn back time" is essentially saying they deeply regret it.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Shakana View Post
    Oh i saw that pic but i was confused.
    All i know is that with how the world is right now and this:


    that i'm not sure how the future will be with Shadowlands. It's cus, virus can't even be that bad compared to other things people die everyday, the only difference is that it doesn't spread and this does, globally. The panic is everywhere and some jobs are literally out of hand. It's not just about the virus, but the problem and panic people get from getting it. Everything is lockdown almost.

    That's why i don't understand how can people still focus so much in judging blizzard in a moment like this, or i'm just crazy...

    Anyhow xD I want to play SL, really. I mean, i bought my pre order, and the best edition. I want to try what i payed for i just don't know but, maybe, SL will take more time since they are at home working.
    Yeah, I mean they are affected by it as much as every other company. If it makes the development of Shadowlands delayed then so be it. Games are fun, but the reality is that we are in this situation now. Can only do the most of it. The meme about staying home, not meeting anyone, just like every other day for gamers is fun though. But it's pretty serious right now.
    - I will never be the Legion's pawn. And this tower will not be its den!

    Best Mage ever lived!

  5. #285
    Seems like we have clarifications on how much are they going to cost:
    https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...on-alts/133275

    Seems like they are dirt cheap, 1 emissary + 3 visions clear = 1 essence
    2 assaults = big and small = 2/5 of essence
    and so on.

    pasting it (you need 500 for R3 essence) and:

    Black Empire Assault – 125 Echoes of Ny’alotha
    Aqir/Amathet/Mantid/Mogu Assault – 75 Echoes of Ny’alotha
    Horrific Visions – 50 Echoes of Ny’alotha, plus 25 per additional objective completed (i.e. 150 Echoes for a full clear)
    Emissary Quest – 50 Echoes of Ny’alotha
    Heroic Darkshore Warfront – 75 Echoes of Ny’alotha
    Normal/Heroic/Mythic Ny’alotha raid bosses – 15-25 Echoes of Ny’alotha each, once per week per boss
    Ny’alotha Raid Finder wings – 25 Echoes of Ny’alotha
    Random Battleground wins – 15-25 Echoes of Ny’alotha
    Rated Arena wins – 10-25 Echoes of Ny’alotha baseline, scaling up with PvP rank
    Rated Battleground wins – 35 Echoes of Ny’alotha baseline, scaling up with PvP rank
    Weekly PvP Cache – 175 to 300 Echoes of Ny’alotha, based on PvP rank
    Mythic Keystone dungeon end-of-run chest – 3 Echoes of Ny’alotha per Keystone Level (i.e. 30 Echoes of Ny’alotha for a Mythic 10)
    Weekly Mythic Keystone Cache – 20 Echoes of Ny’alotha per highest Keystone Level

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Seems like we have clarifications on how much are they going to cost:
    https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...on-alts/133275

    Seems like they are dirt cheap, 1 emissary + 3 visions clear = 1 essence
    2 assaults = big and small = 2/5 of essence
    and so on.

    pasting it (you need 500 for R3 essence) and:
    But they aren't free, greedy Blizzard making us grind. Rage!

    Well that's my sarcasm quota for today.

  7. #287
    @kaminaris

    You can do 3 visions in one day?
    I have no idea how visions work.

    But am extremely curious about this timegate

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    @kaminaris

    You can do 3 visions in one day?
    I have no idea how visions work.

    But am extremely curious about this timegate
    Horrific Visions are timegated in the sense that they require a resource that you get from doing the 8.3 dailies and assaults. Generally you'll get about enough of that resource to do something like 4 visions per week.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by TomatoBisque View Post
    Horrific Visions are timegated in the sense that they require a resource that you get from doing the 8.3 dailies and assaults. Generally you'll get about enough of that resource to do something like 4 visions per week.
    Im not sure anymore but around 5 is possible.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    @kaminaris

    You can do 3 visions in one day?
    I have no idea how visions work.

    But am extremely curious about this timegate
    As much as you want as long as you have currency, somewhere around 4-5 a week with minimal effort, and it stacks up so if you only do 1 weekly, you will be able to do 20 in a row.

    BUT as I quite enjoy them, i couldn't get myself to do more than 3-4 per week, as I said in other thread I timegate things myself so I don't get burned out.

    Currently I could buy about 10 keys on main and 6 keys on alt. My friends who do dailies can do like 20 or so.
    Last edited by kaminaris; 2020-03-17 at 05:32 AM.

  10. #290
    Shame they didn't do account wide essences.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Seems like we have clarifications on how much are they going to cost:
    https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...on-alts/133275

    Seems like they are dirt cheap, 1 emissary + 3 visions clear = 1 essence
    2 assaults = big and small = 2/5 of essence
    and so on.

    pasting it (you need 500 for R3 essence) and:
    You reckon? I honestly get the opposite impression; it's a bit more expensive than I'd like. I mean, sure the numbers seem pretty good, but when you actually stop to think about their practicality, especially for characters that are the very reason for this change in the first place - alts that have hardly been touched.

    Let's examine the numbers from that perspective. Specifically, an undergeared alt of someone who doesn't PvP.
    In one week:
    The Assaults will net you 275. Emissaries will get you 350. That's 625 so far.
    Mythic+? Good luck getting your ilvl 400 alt with no Essences unlocked into a M+ run, so you can rule that out.
    Heroic Darkshore is only available once a month, so its reward is negligible. If you really wanna include it, it gives an average of like, 20 per week. So now we're up to 645.
    Normal/Heroic/Mythic Ny'alotha? On our hypothetical under-played alt? Fat chance - so rule that out.
    Raid Finder? We can do that. 25 per wing. So now we're up to 745! Getting close!
    Random Battleground wins, Rated Battleground wins, Arena wins, Weekly PvP Cache... our player doesn't PvP so we can ignore all that.
    Weekly Mythic+ Cache? Like I said, snowball's chance in hell you're gonna get that on your ilvl 400 alt with no Essences. So that's out too. Still at 745... hm.
    And finally, Horrific Visions. As a fun little experiment, I just now decided to do one of those on my ilvl 420 Demonology Warlock with only a few Rank 1 Essences, and a level 6 Cloak. Holy hell it was awful. Just getting up to the first boss requires I use one of my Sanity Balls. And attempting even the easiest side-wing results in death.
    So undergeared, underprepared alts... the exact characters this change is aimed at... will not be full-clearing Visions any time soon. Not without carries.
    Realistically, it'll take six Vessels of Horrific Visions to get up from 745 to over 1000, to be able to afford your second weekly Essences.
    Even if we're generous and say that you manage to finish a sidewing or two on your shitty alt... that's still three or four Vision runs to get the second Essences.

    So... per week... every single Emissary, every Assault, every single Assault daily quest (for Vessels), and 3 to 6 Horrific Vision runs to get just two Essences.

    And obviously, you want all four of your character's BiS Essences. So that's six Assaults, fourteen Emissaries (56 World Quests), 12 Horrific Visions, and enough Daily Quests to afford those Horrific Visions (10k per key. 12 keys. 2 of them are free, so 10 keys. 100k Coalescing Visions. 350 per daily: you'd need to do well over two fucking hundred and fifty daily quests to afford it.)

    And that's per alt.




    --Unrelated Edit:--
    I don't really like the repeatable PvP content's rewards either, if I'm being honest. Compared to PvE, PvP gives too much on a win, and too little (nothing) on a loss. Especially Random Battlegrounds. It's simultaneously way too rewarding for what you can essentially be infinitely carried through with absolutely no increase in difficulty, and not rewarding enough for what can take up to an hour of your time only to finally lose through no fault of your own.
    Last edited by Mixxy; 2020-03-17 at 05:52 AM. Reason: Fixed a bit of math

  12. #292
    I don't get Blizzard's stubborness to listen to the fans really.

    Like every other company has always had success when they listen and do immediate changes that were requested by the community.

    Blizzard always tries to find the most elaborated way to not do exactly what the fans want but still give them a little bit

    But being honest, I like the numbers, seems like you can get 2 per week by doing normal activities and you probably only want 2 anyway(you get crucible "for free" and one for the main activity you're going to do as well). That said, there was development money invested into this, and it obviously came from somewhere else.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Mixxy View Post
    You reckon? I honestly get the opposite impression; it's a bit more expensive than I'd like. I mean, sure the numbers seem pretty good, but when you actually stop to think about their practicality, especially for characters that are the very reason for this change in the first place - alts that have hardly been touched.

    Let's examine the numbers from that perspective. Specifically, an undergeared alt of someone who doesn't PvP.
    In one week:

    snip

    And that's per alt.
    You seems to forget that alt shouldn't have the same power as your main with a fraction of it's effort. If you actually read that post it becomes crystal clear that blizzard doesn't want people to think that alts are necessary as they were in previous expansions.

    They don't want for alts to give people advantage over those who doesn't enjoy playing alts and rightfully so. Lets see
    In WoD and Legion having many alts gave you OVERWHELMING advantage in gold. 6-8 alts made you a millionaire. Do I need to remind you what can you buy with 10M of gold? It was so ridiculous at some point that earning gold for full mythic raid clear was actually 1/10 effort of actually progressing the raid.
    Pre M+/PL era, even a scrub guilds had split runs because rolling an alt was piss easy so everyone required to have at least one alt, doesn't matter if it was top 2000 guild or so.
    Switching classes for bosses were also way too easy so even if you didn't really enjoy playing other classes, you had to.

    I absolutely agree with blizzard here. Since legion I never had to play alt in raids.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by monkaTOS View Post
    So, go buy one rank 3 essence.



    Your limitation in this case is not the essences. It's your ilvl. So you need to do some other content. 8.3 base level is higher than that. Heroic dungeons drop 415. M0 drops 430. None of those require rank 3 essences. I feel like you're spinning up hypotethical edge case here to support your head-narrative.



    Why wouldn't you want to do that, it's free gear.



    Yeah, again, not essence problem.



    Actually you're not going to get into LFR with your ilvl 400 alt either, so not essence problem. You need to work on your gear.



    Ok, but in that case you were not going to get BoE or Strife in the first place? What actual essences are you trying to get from this system?




    Yeah. It sucks to be that undergeared and expect to be able to do content. You might need to work on your gear?



    So maybe work on your gear and power, which you can do just fine without essences. Emissaries reward 445 gear you know.



    You get Crucible for free, two essences is *exactly* what you need on your alt to get it going. The rest you can worry about later. The problem with alts has been several week long rep/honor grinds. Now it's pretty easy to fill your essence slots with min. one rank 3 a week. How is this problematic?
    It's amazing how thoroughly you managed to respond to every single point I made while completely missing the point that I was specifically talking about a brand new, undergeared alt, with no HoA levels and no prior Essences.

    I'll spell it out:
    This catch-up system is more rewarding the less it's needed.

    That's dumb.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    You seems to forget that alt shouldn't have the same power as your main with a fraction of it's effort. If you actually read that post it becomes crystal clear that blizzard doesn't want people to think that alts are necessary as they were in previous expansions.

    They don't want for alts to give people advantage over those who doesn't enjoy playing alts and rightfully so. Lets see
    In WoD and Legion having many alts gave you OVERWHELMING advantage in gold. 6-8 alts made you a millionaire. Do I need to remind you what can you buy with 10M of gold? It was so ridiculous at some point that earning gold for full mythic raid clear was actually 1/10 effort of actually progressing the raid.
    Pre M+/PL era, even a scrub guilds had split runs because rolling an alt was piss easy so everyone required to have at least one alt, doesn't matter if it was top 2000 guild or so.
    Switching classes for bosses were also way too easy so even if you didn't really enjoy playing other classes, you had to.

    I absolutely agree with blizzard here. Since legion I never had to play alt in raids.
    A'ight, lemme ask you then... since there's no benefit to having alts in BFA, what's the harm in allowing your alts to be almost as well off as your mains?

    And I say almost because even if Essences were COMPLETELY account-wide, and everyone's HoA was automatically brought up to max level... you'd still need to play your alt as much as you play your main to get the same level of gear on it.

    This idea that having all of the Essences on your Alts would somehow magically propel them up to the same lofty heights as your main, clad in 480 Azerite gear, wearing the best Corruptions and BiS trinkets, with all those bonus Gem slots... is absolutely baffling to me. How have people managed to convince themselves that Essences are all the matter? Especially in this age of Infinite Stars and Twilight Devastations.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by monkaTOS View Post
    Dude, your example is so fucked up I don't know where to begin.
    WHY would you need rank 3 essences for i400 alts that haven't even played 8.3 content?

    Do fucking worldquests. Do LFR. Do m0. Do warfronts. No essences required. Yay powergains.

    Once you get around 445, start worrying about essences. At that point you can actually do 8.3 content.
    So you agree? The more a character needs to catch up, the less reasonable this catch up mechanic is?

    Cool. Glad we see eye-to-eye on this.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Mixxy View Post
    A'ight, lemme ask you then... since there's no benefit to having alts in BFA, what's the harm in allowing your alts to be almost as well off as your mains?
    Read my post once again, there are always benefits of having alts, especially when it comes to raiding.

  17. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nuba View Post
    I don't get Blizzard's stubborness to listen to the fans really.

    Like every other company has always had success when they listen and do immediate changes that were requested by the community.

    Blizzard always tries to find the most elaborated way to not do exactly what the fans want but still give them a little bit

    But being honest, I like the numbers, seems like you can get 2 per week by doing normal activities and you probably only want 2 anyway(you get crucible "for free" and one for the main activity you're going to do as well). That said, there was development money invested into this, and it obviously came from somewhere else.
    its the problem when their heads are too deep in their own ass

    They think they always know better and refuse to acknowledge mistakes or feedback, its the mentality "you think you do but you don't"

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Read my post once again, there are always benefits of having alts, especially when it comes to raiding.
    So? At this point, who cares? The expansion is over. World First is over. The Horde hall-of-fame is closed. N'zoth LFR is available, so literally every single player can finish the expansion, finish the story, see the disappointing cinematic.

    BFA. Is. Finished.

    Who cares if alts become powerful? Who cares if raids become easier for people with alts. The expansion's done.

    Getting this hung up over it is like getting upset that someone cheated at a race after the race was finished.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    As much as you want as long as you have currency, somewhere around 4-5 a week with minimal effort, and it stacks up so if you only do 1 weekly, you will be able to do 20 in a row.

    BUT as I quite enjoy them, i couldn't get myself to do more than 3-4 per week, as I said in other thread I timegate things myself so I don't get burned out.

    Currently I could buy about 10 keys on main and 6 keys on alt. My friends who do dailies can do like 20 or so.
    Quote Originally Posted by TomatoBisque View Post
    Horrific Visions are timegated in the sense that they require a resource that you get from doing the 8.3 dailies and assaults. Generally you'll get about enough of that resource to do something like 4 visions per week.
    Thanks for the replies

    Seems to be a very mild gate.
    How many essenses does a person need anyway? Not many i assume. Specially in a alt.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by Mixxy View Post
    So? At this point, who cares? The expansion is over. World First is over. The Horde hall-of-fame is closed. N'zoth LFR is available, so literally every single player can finish the expansion, finish the story, see the disappointing cinematic.

    BFA. Is. Finished.

    Who cares if alts become powerful? Who cares if raids become easier for people with alts. The expansion's done.

    Getting this hung up over it is like getting upset that someone cheated at a race after the race was finished.
    No its nowhere near being done. There are still a lot of guilds progressing.

    And you realize that last statement was pretty dumb do you?
    That is usually how it happens, cheats are detected usually after the race. Rarely in a middle of it.

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