Thread: Combat RNG

  1. #1

    Combat RNG

    I think we can all agree that the game has a lot of Loot RNG right now, but what in my opinion is even worse is the Combat RNG. There are way too many random procs in the game which you have absolutely no control over.

    - Procs from Essences
    - Procs from Azerite gear
    - Procs from Corruption (the worst of course)
    - Procs from Trinket
    - Procs from Class abilities and talents

    These random procs have way too much impact on your performance and it feels so incredibly bad because you have no control over them. The Corruption is of course the most impactful factor, but the game in general has too many random procs.

  2. #2
    Although I'm agree with that, I always thought that was intended.

    A good player has an overall good performance on lots of pulls/runs, we all know that... Not just an exceptional performance on some pull over hundreds. Can be frustrating if you miss a kill by 1 % when it's not your best pull, but that's also a teamplay.

  3. #3
    This has been said about 100x, the most surprising thing to me is that there are people that enjoy it. It is basically a spectator sport now.

    Dispatch(supposed to be the big combo point spender) - 30-40k, random azerite ability 60k! see you next time. Very tough to be interested in gearing like this.
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Naville View Post
    Although I'm agree with that, I always thought that was intended.

    A good player has an overall good performance on lots of pulls/runs, we all know that... Not just an exceptional performance on some pull over hundreds. Can be frustrating if you miss a kill by 1 % when it's not your best pull, but that's also a teamplay.
    The thing I found most annoying is that during mythic progression my dps can now vary by 20-30 k based on similar performance. It feels really bad that your dps is so much out of your own control.

  5. #5
    I recommend trying MMO that has PVE that doesn't have so many layers of RNG. Shadowlands will most likely be the same as Legion & BFA but we'll have to see during testing.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Afrospinach View Post
    This has been said about 100x, the most surprising thing to me is that there are people that enjoy it. It is basically a spectator sport now.

    Dispatch(supposed to be the big combo point spender) - 30-40k, random azerite ability 60k! see you next time. Very tough to be interested in gearing like this.
    It's probably THE prime reason I quit. Only people who like this garbage are people who would never otherwise get that "hero" moment where they top meters because they suck too bad. Fuck those people.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    It's probably THE prime reason I quit. Only people who like this garbage are people who would never otherwise get that "hero" moment where they top meters because they suck too bad. Fuck those people.
    Odd. In my raid the best players consistently top meters. The same people who have always topped meters.

  8. #8
    There is a lot going on but if Blizzard cleans it up then there is too little going on. It's hard to find a balance with these things.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    Odd. In my raid the best players consistently top meters. The same people who have always topped meters.
    Then your raid has huge performance discrepancy. I'd beat the bottom half (scrubs) of our raid who parsed green/blue always, but that's not who I care about.

    My own performance would vary heavily based on procs, and this corruption garbage has also been quite powerful in affecting performance, meaning if you get your hands on 100+ corruption of the right traits, you win. If you get bad corrupted pieces, you lose.

    Here's how you tell: look at the maximum performance versus the upper quartile performance from this tier. The discrepancy is incredible. Now go back and look at other raids from even this xpac. No where close to those kinds of discrepancies of the absolute top versus, say, 95th percentile. Or do you really thing that someone who is 5% better, percentile wise, is like 20% more skilled (because they're doing 20% more damage than someone in the 95th percentile)? No.

    Going back to before this, the ideal situation of getting AZ procs, trinket procs, and essence procs to line up would result in INCREDIBLE damage swings. Someone that was, say historically 80th percentile would absolutely be able to beat someone who was historically 90th+. And it wasn't because they suddenly just started playing better. It was one-off occurrences of the stars aligning. Period.
    Last edited by BeepBoo; 2020-03-19 at 08:33 PM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by BeepBoo View Post
    if you get your hands on 100+ corruption of the right traits, you win. If you get bad corrupted pieces, you lose.
    Nah. If at this point in time you don't have competitive corruption traits you haven't even been playing. This was only an issue at the very beginning and thinking players knew it would even out. You're just making shit up like people do when they want to justify crying about dumb shit. People not at the top always make up a bunch of reasons why it's not their fault and talk about how they're really awesome and it's just the game that is bad.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    Nah. If at this point in time you don't have competitive corruption traits you haven't even been playing.
    He's right - I was always competitive for top spot, but I stopped playing the non-raid portion of the game pretty hard due to burnout, and have fallen behind. As long as you're just doing all the content, the game will balance itself out.

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer docterfreeze's Avatar
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    What are you talking about? Having my dps vary by up to 30k due to things completely out of my control is very fun.

    DPS badly needs more avenues for skill expression. Classes are dumbed down, procs top the meters, a significant portion of the damage someone deals occurs regardless of player skill.
    Last edited by docterfreeze; 2020-03-19 at 11:43 PM.

  13. #13
    PROcs that increase stats are great for the game. It gives the player an opportunity to react to them. Passive "20k dmg lulz" procs are stupid.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    There is a lot going on but if Blizzard cleans it up then there is too little going on. It's hard to find a balance with these things.
    See this is just wrong and I feel like Blizzard agrees with it. Random procs for damage like infinite stars don't count as something happening to anyone that isn't new and very confused. If you don't have any input and its just a random damage proc or the like then your gameplay wasn't altered whatsoever. This includes weapon enchants, stat procs and the like usually as well since snapshotting was removed post mop there is no reactionary gameplay based around those. Its like they think if they add more flashy lasers it solves the issue of gameplay being bland when in reality it just makes the player's own input mean less. Right now with corruption BFA is the absolute worst WoW has ever been about this and it needs to stop. We need actual gameplay and our decisions need to have more of an impact. I should never end an arena or a raid boss or a m+ and go through details and see that over half of someones damage was passive procs and auto attacks that had nothing to do with their own inputs. Our cloak shouldn't proc enough int to be competitive with an on use stat trinket that just randomly buffs the shit out of our CDs or doesn't to massive effect. Procs like that are how you dilute the impact of a good player playing the class significantly and instead turn it into a slot machine where anyone competent could range from the most dps in the game to a somewhat poor performance based on nothing that they did themselves
    Last edited by Turkey One; 2020-03-20 at 12:02 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    Nah. If at this point in time you don't have competitive corruption traits you haven't even been playing. This was only an issue at the very beginning and thinking players knew it would even out. You're just making shit up like people do when they want to justify crying about dumb shit. People not at the top always make up a bunch of reasons why it's not their fault and talk about how they're really awesome and it's just the game that is bad.

    What you're saying is you run LFR so much you got the pieces you want.
    Good for you.
    Way to go.

    Too bad you don't live in reality.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I think we can all agree that the game has a lot of Loot RNG right now, but what in my opinion is even worse is the Combat RNG. There are way too many random procs in the game which you have absolutely no control over.

    - Procs from Essences
    - Procs from Azerite gear
    - Procs from Corruption (the worst of course)
    - Procs from Trinket
    - Procs from Class abilities and talents

    These random procs have way too much impact on your performance and it feels so incredibly bad because you have no control over them. The Corruption is of course the most impactful factor, but the game in general has too many random procs.


    The top 3 are BFA procs and I agree that it is too much. At this point in the expansion, it is just a dps circus ride. I quit attaching any significance to charts or dps reports. If stuff dies in group content....great. I do a rotation and whatever else I can control in a fight. After that, it's just eating popcorn and waiting to see how it all turns out.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    PROcs that increase stats are great for the game.
    I agree with this to a certain degree. The problem right now is that most specs are build around specific cool downs, so if those stat procs don't happen around those cool downs it won't have a great impact. For example the corruption 'void ritual'. It can give you an insane amount of stats, but you're never going to hold your cool downs and wait for a proc.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    Odd. In my raid the best players consistently top meters. The same people who have always topped meters.
    What level do you raid at?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    Nah. If at this point in time you don't have competitive corruption traits you haven't even been playing. This was only an issue at the very beginning and thinking players knew it would even out. You're just making shit up like people do when they want to justify crying about dumb shit. People not at the top always make up a bunch of reasons why it's not their fault and talk about how they're really awesome and it's just the game that is bad.
    It didn't even out(yet), and even when it does in terms of gear, you still have the parses where somebody gets 3x as many Infinite Stars procs on Shad'har as they should. It's also much harder to quickly tell if you're doing something wrong when RNG swings are as massive as they are now. I'd personally much rather be in a situation where gear is "done" for everybody, giving a completely even playing field in that regard. That way I can see exactly how much worse I am than the top players, and maybe try to copy some of what they're doing.
    One of the best things this tier is Limit public logging farm, but it gets tainted by how big an effect corruption has. Like yes, Imfiredup is an insanely good player, but it's impossible to compare my mage's DPS to his because he just has like 50% more mastery than me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    PROcs that increase stats are great for the game. It gives the player an opportunity to react to them. Passive "20k dmg lulz" procs are stupid.
    Pretty much this. That said, there's too many different procs in general currently, and basically none of them are powerful enough to actually play around. They need to consolidate that into fewer but more powerful (stat, or otherwise gameplay-affecting) procs next expansion. They won't do that, because it allows for better skill expression, but it'd make the game better.
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  19. #19
    In my opinion, the real question that the current playerbase should answer is, whether they would like a more toned down -but more engaging- combat by reducing the RNG or they will detest it. I believe they will detest it.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    Nah. If at this point in time you don't have competitive corruption traits you haven't even been playing. This was only an issue at the very beginning and thinking players knew it would even out. You're just making shit up like people do when they want to justify crying about dumb shit. People not at the top always make up a bunch of reasons why it's not their fault and talk about how they're really awesome and it's just the game that is bad.
    So having 30+ corrupted items and only one +mastery item (without mastery on it, and only the 6% version) means I haven't been playing. It's all fun when you get the good pieces, but it's hardly guaranteed. This means my AoE gear set will suffer compared to other competitive players.

    In regards to combat RNG, I hate it with a vengeance. I wish I could build a set with just +stat gear, but I just don't get any corrupted pieces with it. So I am stuck with using Infinite Star pieces that just won't proc. As an example on our last Wrathion kill my guildie had 32 procs, while I had 14. She did 4 million damage, compared to my 2 million damage with Stars, while having only rank 2 compared to my rank 3.

    It's a garbage gearing system compounded with a garbage combat proc system.
    Last edited by Sageless; 2020-03-28 at 09:21 PM.

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