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  1. #181
    1. There are neutral factions across the world that dont care what race you are as long as your there to help. Cenarion Circle/Expedition, Argent Dawn/Crusade. The goal of these factions is to stop the destruction of Azeroth

    2. The Kirin Tor is led by Khadgar who knows that the horde are not bad people and also knows the Kirin Tor are stronger with the horde.

    The races of Azeroth have worked together way before the factions were a thing and they can understand that even when 1 race or person from that race is evil it doesnt make them all evil.

  2. #182
    It's really an idiotic development that serves no one. It prevents the Horde from developing their own identities, it waters down the identities of Alliance factions (and make no mistake, a faction founded by humans mostly consisting of humans that was part of the Alliance of Lordaeron is an Alliance faction) preventing them from developing in any meaningful way that isn't holding hands with your enemies and singing kumbaya. The Knights of the Silver Hand were founded to combat the Horde. Up until Cataclysm every human paladin was automatically addressed as a Knight of the Silver Hand and then suddenly the Argent Crusade decides it's time for rebranding and starts accepting literal heretics that have fought their own people for years into their ranks.

    Give me a break.


    Ultimately, this is the result of Blizzard's post-classic take on world building where everything has to be accessible to everyone, every faction is completely woke and everyone can overcome their differences to work together for the greater good because you have to stop world ending threat [x] after all. It's bland, it's boring, it's unimaginative and it doesn't make for good stories.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    She outright tells you this before you follow her to Dalaran ON ALLIANCE SIDE.
    looked up the quest. She preventing them to take a wmd yes.
    So i stand corrected.

  4. #184
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    Because the idea of the 2 player factions in wow has become silly. Saying the horde betrayed the KT so all Horde should be booted is like saying Arthas betrayed the Alliance so all humans should be kicked out.

    Horde druids go from leading the greatest druids of Azeroth, to marching on an alliance city (a freaking world tree) to hold it hostage basically only for at the last min the war chief to say "nah, changed my mind, burn it".

    Legion allied races were aided by both factions but picks to go to war with one.

    And freaking pandas! We fight for family....or we fight family that joined the other faction.

    IMO (and everyone has their own), WoW was better of when Sylvannas was a shady racial leader and her and Genn had a hate on for each other. Anduin and Voljin could have said "we want peace" and those that wanted it could have cross faction grouped or whatever. However each faction could have had a faction of loyalist that think they act for the greater good, lead by Gen / Syl in Warmode that kept the classic war theme going from the shadows.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by omeomorfismo View Post
    but thats true for everyone. human story were MIA until wotlk, orcs are basically ignored everytime they should appear (all tbc could be sum up as "we found garrosh" and 7.3 is criminally ally focused). at least nelf setting is expanded more than all the other races combined (and damn blizz has the fucking troll mine where they could dig what they want instead to use them as recurrent punching ball).
    It isn't true for everyone though.

    Whiles story telling did shift from racial focus to world events involving everyone … still we had advancements. TBC continued the story of the Orcs... what happened to those left on Outland, the ogres, and it was huge on the blood elf lore too (now a horde race, so qualifying as horde lore), then TBC also showed what happened to the Sons of Lothar and those trapped behind the dark portal - humans and high elves (blood elf lore again), we got lore on the draenei - but that is to be expected of a new race.

    WotLk had heavy orc involvement, disproportionately too, over say the Forsaken and the Thalassian elves, who had a minor role. Humans dominated again the lore advanced.


    cata "druidism" isnt nothing more than bow the troll's druid style to a nelf druid setting.
    You're right, becuase they did nothing to make it distinct or separate, continuing the all druidsm is from night elves, rather than give us new forms of it. But then that is lore consistencies though Surely even if its new it should connect somehow to the night elves.. just like Magecraft and demon hunter craft do (the 3 classes the night elves start in Warcraft.

    It is because Troll druidsm did not exist before then. even though it looks like Trolls could have done it all on their own (they are certainly intelligent enough) Itwas as you mentioned earlier, a night elf thing. I don't think the troll druid style was fleshed out yet. It was invented then, but the fleshing out comes in BFA with the Gonk Zanadalari followers. I don't know if it was mentioned, but they haven't druids until recently because the lore said Gonk firsit initiates druidsm in cata.

    This gives them an opportunity to flesh it out considerably though. I hope one day they would vary the spells on classes as they cross the racaial line, give each race distinctive enough versions of the more selective classes when they cross the racial barrier.

    and thats the problem, troll priest/druid/shaman doesnt make any sense, they are completely bowed on human priest/ nelf druid / orc shaman.
    its the same with tauren/zandalari paladins. they are basically light druids, basically all troll priests are whatevertheirloause druid.
    in retrospective blizz shoud have to give druid to only the nelf and make "witch doctors" for the trolls, maybe using feral and rejuvenation as common specs and balance/vodoo race specific.
    Preaching to the choir babes. I feel that classes on certain races should adapt, not just literally be the same concept as they are on that race. Troll druidsm should have different spells, - there is no way trolls are using star magic (solar, lunar, stellar) that's so a night elf thing - children of the stars, highborne, Nightborne, priestesses.. it just feels so weird. They should have at least renamed the spelsl and given them visuals to match.


    Which is what puzzles me, is it that hard? Tidesages could use the shaman class, but they would have totally different names for spells and visuals,

    but now we have all these abominations, druid priest paladin, that always are reduced to a single race (nelf and humans basically) in every single development
    Agreed, I don't like it, I know it's possible ofc, but I think they should do a lot of careful work when it comes to player class/race thigns, because they form a core part of the identity. More work than they've done should have been given.

    btw the zul'gurub high priests are basically the specific loa counterparts of the ones in the conclave of the chosen in bod raid. probably their hibryd form could be seen as a corrupted form by hakkar or simply like the wod talent "Claws of Shirvallah"
    I thought they were corrupted by Hakkar which is why they were siphoning power of their loa to themselves, allowing them to get great abilities and transfomrations. There pursuit of power leading to this ofc
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2020-03-16 at 07:43 PM.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    But you initially pointed that out in response to @matrix123mko's post about how Dalaran broke neutrality prior to Theramore to prove it wrong. And it just doesn't. Dalaran deciding to go neutral again after Theramore doesn't mean they didn't break neutrality prior to Theramore. Especially since Theramore lead to leadership change. Hell, matrix123mko even acknowledged that before. Though your post after this reply indicates you didn't get that they were talking about honin.
    I responded a post in a thread about a subject. So hench its about the thread subject and the post relation to it.
    She was preventing mass murder and helping evacuting theramore. Hell even horde thought it was bad and warned the alliance.....So was it a grey area thing...yeah. But did she kick out sunreavers nope.

    And yes i said i was wrong. thought we where talking about jaina.




    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Goblins are making economic deals with the Elements. Likely shitty deals because it's Goblins, but still just deals. Meanwhile the Dark Irons are literally using not only Dark Shamanism in general, but the same exact Molten Giants that Earthen Ring had issues with Garrosh over.
    You just side stepped the 2 other bad things and said but goblins are less evil.
    Yes they are like you said less evil. But where the dark irons as a group ( sub group) do something bad. The goblins are from a faction that has done bad things...twice to them.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Which is better than killing people and forcing them into mindless ghouls how?
    Neither, you are moving goal posts now.
    They are both bad. But the DK's do not go about mass murdering whole zones to add to their numbers.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Jaina flat out says it herself to the Alliance player in an Alliance quest.
    Yes, should it be a horde quest? or a neutral quest only for alliance players?



    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Azerite isn't a WMD. It could potentially be used as material for one but: 1. that hasn't come to pass and the biggest military use it saw was a tank that got destroyed because Anduin smacked its main canon with a sword, and 2. the Alliance didn't know that when they decided to kill Goblins because the very point of them killing Goblins was obtaining more samples so they could learn WTF that is that Horde is mining. And even that aside, WMDs are most certainly not an act of war. That's why the penalty for them is, by your own admission, sanctions. And not military reprisal as would be the case with an actual act of war.
    Azerite is....have you seen the bombs made of it? Its like nucliar material.
    And again you are sidestepping the point.



    Before this becomes a other qoute war. Here my thoughts on all of it.

    This thread mehrunes is about why are certain factions ( paladins per example). That originate or are lett by alliance race members still so happy with the horde. I added some other factions because they have been also wronged a lot by the horde.
    I am not saying the Horde is bad, or they should be kicked out. But lore wise i think its a valid question. why?!?
    I have provided some example's. But because i said something bad about the horde people like you are trying to find everything wrong with my text. because they think i am bias or something.
    Instead of looking at the grand picture. Yes i will make lore mistakes no one is perfect.

    So let me be clear. I do not think the alliance is perfect, and it also has done bad things.
    But in the question of factions like druids, priests, paladins, shamans and other non alliance/horde factions. And their feelings towards the horde. i do think seeing what the horde has done. They might be less popular and think sometimes...why do we still allow horde in our group or why do we still thrust the horde.

    Oohh and ty for starting a qoute war again...you clearly wanted one. because i see other lore mistakes before and after me but you only respond to me .....sigh.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    So what's the deal with making factions that were originally Alliance affiliated neutral? It's honestly insulting to Alliance players that iconic alliance factions are now open to the Horde.
    It's because Horde factions and heroes are constantly turned into villains and killed off while the Alliance counterparts survive. So the only way to create a story is by using the Alliance factions and heroes and turn them neutral.

    You might think it's insulting to the Alliance. But the biggest insult is that the Horde can't even have decent characters and factions.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    I responded a post in a thread about a subject. So hench its about the thread subject and the post relation to it.
    She was preventing mass murder and helping evacuting theramore. Hell even horde thought it was bad and warned the alliance.....So was it a grey area thing...yeah. But did she kick out sunreavers nope.

    And yes i said i was wrong. thought we where talking about jaina.
    If you were talking about Jaina you were even more wrong because Jaina most certainly was not neutral at that point. She was the leader of Theramore, an Alliance nation. Which was as far from neutral as one could get in a Horde-Alliance conflict.


    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    You just side stepped the 2 other bad things and said but goblins are less evil.
    Yes they are like you said less evil. But where the dark irons as a group ( sub group) do something bad. The goblins are from a faction that has done bad things...twice to them.
    The stark majority of the Horde opposed Garrosh, most of the Shamans included. And what's the second Horde bad thing if not the Goblins?


    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    Neither, you are moving goal posts now.
    They are both bad. But the DK's do not go about mass murdering whole zones to add to their numbers.
    I'm not moving the goalposts. You tried to paint the Ebon Blade as some benevolent faction that gives a shit about free will of the undead. They are not. Meanwhile the stark majority of the undead resurrected by the Forsaken have free will, with the only exception being a temporary meatshield of undead constructs.


    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    Yes, should it be a horde quest? or a neutral quest only for alliance players?
    No one said it should be? The point was that it being an Alliance quest only is a rather clear indication on Jaina's stance at that point. Besides, you already admitted to @Verdugo you were wrong about that one.


    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    Azerite is....have you seen the bombs made of it? Its like nucliar material.
    That would make the bombs the WMDs, not Azerite itself. Not that I've seen WMD level Azerite bombs.


    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    And again you are sidestepping the point.
    I'm not sidestepping the point. I'm perfectly aware what the main topic of the thread is. The particular comment about WMDs wasn't about that nor was it in a reply to a comment about the main topic. I was replying precisely on point of what I was replying to.


    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    Before this becomes a other qoute war. Here my thoughts on all of it.

    This thread mehrunes is about why are certain factions ( paladins per example). That originate or are lett by alliance race members still so happy with the horde. I added some other factions because they have been also wronged a lot by the horde.
    I am not saying the Horde is bad, or they should be kicked out. But lore wise i think its a valid question. why?!?
    I have provided some example's. But because i said something bad about the horde people like you are trying to find everything wrong with my text. because they think i am bias or something.
    Instead of looking at the grand picture. Yes i will make lore mistakes no one is perfect.

    So let me be clear. I do not think the alliance is perfect, and it also has done bad things.
    But in the question of factions like druids, priests, paladins, shamans and other non alliance/horde factions. And their feelings towards the horde. i do think seeing what the horde has done. They might be less popular and think sometimes...why do we still allow horde in our group or why do we still thrust the horde.
    But I haven't said a word about about you thinking the Alliance is perfect or saying that the Horde is bad. Nor do I disagree that the question posed by the OP is valid (though the examples of Ebon Blade and Earthen Ring are the weakest ones out of all the non-playable factions).


    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    Oohh and ty for starting a qoute war again...you clearly wanted one. because i see other lore mistakes before and after me but you only respond to me .....sigh.
    I responded to most recent post that picked my attention out of the few most recent posts that showed up after I clicked the "view most recent posts" button because I didn't want to read through the entire thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    It isn't true for everyone though.

    Whiles story telling did shift from racial focus to world events involving everyone … still we had advancements. TBC continued the story of the Orcs... what happened to those left on Outland, the ogres, and it was huge on the blood elf lore too (now a horde race, so qualifying as horde lore), then TBC also showed what happened to the Sons of Lothar and those trapped behind the dark portal - humans and high elves (blood elf lore again), we got lore on the draenei - but that is to be expected of a new race.

    WotLk had heavy orc involvement, disproportionately too, over say the Forsaken and the Thalassian elves, who had a minor role. Humans dominated again the lore advanced.



    You're right, becuase they did nothing to make it distinct or separate, continuing the all druidsm is from night elves, rather than give us new forms of it. But then that is lore consistencies though Surely even if its new it should connect somehow to the night elves.. just like Magecraft and demon hunter craft do (the 3 classes the night elves start in Warcraft.

    It is because Troll druidsm did not exist before then. even though it looks like Trolls could have done it all on their own (they are certainly intelligent enough) Itwas as you mentioned earlier, a night elf thing. I don't think the troll druid style was fleshed out yet. It was invented then, but the fleshing out comes in BFA with the Gonk Zanadalari followers. I don't know if it was mentioned, but they haven't druids until recently because the lore said Gonk firsit initiates druidsm in cata.

    This gives them an opportunity to flesh it out considerably though. I hope one day they would vary the spells on classes as they cross the racaial line, give each race distinctive enough versions of the more selective classes when they cross the racial barrier.



    Preaching to the choir babes. I feel that classes on certain races should adapt, not just literally be the same concept as they are on that race. Troll druidsm should have different spells, - there is no way trolls are using star magic (solar, lunar, stellar) that's so a night elf thing - children of the stars, highborne, Nightborne, priestesses.. it just feels so weird. They should have at least renamed the spelsl and given them visuals to match.


    Which is what puzzles me, is it that hard? Tidesages could use the shaman class, but they would have totally different names for spells and visuals,

    Agreed, I don't like it, I know it's possible ofc, but I think they should do a lot of careful work when it comes to player class/race thigns, because they form a core part of the identity. More work than they've done should have been given.

    I thought they were corrupted by Hakkar which is why they were siphoning power of their loa to themselves, allowing them to get great abilities and transfomrations. There pursuit of power leading to this ofc
    continued? it ended kargath story and introduced garrosh. thats all. there are literal more dragon lore advancement than orc one. and yes, there is tons of blood elf stuff because you know, they were introduced exactly like the draenei (sans the giga retcon).
    sons of lothar stuff isnt advacement, otherwise even knowing the fate of shendralar is nelf lore, or every other nelf ruin full of banshees and ghosts.
    i mean, sure, wow can focus only i few races every time, but damn, even if nelf arent to a human level at least they arent at gnome/tauren/ pre bfa troll level , they have even the most expansed setting of everyone that is still developed basically in every expansion (with entire zones/raid based on them)

    considering that zul aman bosses literally morphs in fully form, gonk never started druidism in cata, he appeared to darkspears and told them to stop "priesting" one loa at a time (but considering nelf never worshipped others than cenarius/malorne its strange). in bfa he says that long ago he decreed to the rastari that thing, so zandalari druids exists for who know much time.
    i mean, we agree, balance is the main problem for the lore, but the rest is simply shorten up as loa/wild god priest=druid

  10. #190
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    If you go back to vanilla wow when only horde had shamans, would could have said the earthen ring was a horde faction. Then draenei came in, followed by dwarves, and by the time the earthen ring was introduced to the game in cata, it already had these races in the ring.
    #boycottchina

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    That would make the bombs the WMDs, not Azerite itself. Not that I've seen WMD level Azerite bombs.
    By that argument you should be able to get ahold of plutonium or Uranium-238 pretty easily. Oh wait, you can't. Because everyone knows it can be used for WMD and it's heavily, heavily regulated. Use your head, bro. If stuff that can be used to make meth needs ID to buy in a store stuff that can be used to make WMDs are gonna be hella restricted.
    "Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer." Powerogue 2019

  12. #192
    Because the Horde has no real story or identity.

    Other than random evil and violence.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    By that argument you should be able to get ahold of plutonium or Uranium-238 pretty easily. Oh wait, you can't. Because everyone knows it can be used for WMD and it's heavily, heavily regulated. Use your head, bro. If stuff that can be used to make meth needs ID to buy in a store stuff that can be used to make WMDs are gonna be hella restricted.
    I'm sure in your mind you thought you got yourself a sick burn right here, but all you've really got is a flop the size of a galaxy cluster. Uranium and plutonium being controlled substances because they can be used to produce WMDs doesn't actually make them WMDs either. Because words mean things. So it's exactly like what I said about Azerite. So you've countered nothing whatsoever.

    And it's not even the only (or even the main) reason why they are controlled substances. Because these are radioactive elements. And even non-WMD material radioactive elements are regulated. Thorium is regulated. Radon is regulated. So on and so forth. Because they are radioactive. And as such inherently a health hazard. Plutonium is also regulated because of energetic security, just like uranium-235.

    Not that I even said anything about Azerite being a regulated substance or not. Because it was not a tangent that was raised in the posts on the matter I was replying to. Nor have I said anything even remotely indicating that I thought that one can merrily buy themselves a batch of plutonium. Which you'd know if you actually bothered checking the context of what you're replying to instead of making this disaster of a gotcha.

    If you did that you'd also see my previous post where I pointed out that Alliance wasn't killing the Goblins because muh WMDs, because they didn't really know what Azerite even is at that point. Which is actually the reason why they did the killing. It's them not knowing what it was that made them do so as they wanted more samples and that was the most convenient way to get them.

    So something tells me the concept of regulated substances doesn't exactly apply here. Because it's highly unlikely the Alliance regulated the ownership of a substance before they learned what that substance is, let alone killed Goblins over them ignoring their regulations. And that's putting aside how Alliance regulations wouldn't apply to the Horde. Or how the Horde mining venture was a state operation ordered by the Warchief, where the rules would be vastly different.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2020-03-16 at 10:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Lieutenant Commander View Post
    Horde attacked the Kirin Tor, both in Classic and Cataclysm - see Ambermill and the Dalaran Crater.
    Ambermill? you mean the town with heavy military presence build in the forsaken territory?
    such atrocity not allowing troops of another country to make a military base on your backyard, how dare the forsaken defend their teritory from foreign sldiers...

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Lieutenant Commander View Post
    Horde attacked the Kirin Tor, both in Classic and Cataclysm - see Ambermill and the Dalaran Crater.
    In Vanilla they intruded upon Forsaken territory (and also did some weird nonsense with the leylines in the region which freaked the resident Forsaken Mage out). And by Cataclysm Amber Mill Mages left the Kirin Tor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    In Vanilla they intruded upon Forsaken territory (and also did some weird nonsense with the leylines in the region which freaked the resident Forsaken Mage out).
    That territory belonged to Dalaran before forsaken existed as a concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    And by Cataclysm Amber Mill Mages left the Kirin Tor.
    Yeah, and so did the mages around Dalaran crater who were there together with Ansirem and got killed by forsaken too, how convenient.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Lieutenant Commander View Post
    That territory belonged to Dalaran before forsaken existed as a concept.
    Nope. It was Gilnean land and then Gilneans abandoned it together with everything north of their wall. Then Forsaken waltzed into Silverpine and claimed the zone for themselves. And then, just before Vanilla, did the Kirin Tor arrive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lieutenant Commander View Post
    Yeah, and so did the mages around Dalaran crater who were there together with Ansirem and got killed by forsaken too, how convenient.
    You know what's convenient ? You trying to argue against quest text flat out calling them former Kirin Tor members.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Snip
    I was about to ask whether you're always so sarcastic, hostile, and one-upsman about your posting, but then I remembered who I was talking to. You know, not everyone goes around posting on the forums trying to get "sick burns in their mind". You might be projecting a bit there.

    As for the WMD thing ingredients that can be used to make WMDs are usually covered under the same laws. Having enriched uranium will get you nailed to the wall by the international community as badly as actually having a weapon.

    As for the goblin thing, Alliance don't need an excuse to kill people. "Hey, these people have something we want to look at. Let's kill them and take it." Typically Alliance mindset. Of course as soon as the Alliance knew what the stuff could do they immediately jumped on the "anyone who's not us and has this stuff needs to die so they can't use it against us" train.
    "Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer." Powerogue 2019

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    You know what's convenient ? You trying to argue against quest text flat out calling them former Kirin Tor members.
    Find me one quest calling the Dalaran mages around the crater former Dalaran magi. You won't find it.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by omeomorfismo View Post
    continued? it ended kargath story and introduced garrosh. thats all. there are literal more dragon lore advancement than orc one. and yes, there is tons of blood elf stuff because you know, they were introduced exactly like the draenei (sans the giga retcon).
    sons of lothar stuff isnt advacement, otherwise even knowing the fate of shendralar is nelf lore, or every other nelf ruin full of banshees and ghosts.
    i mean, sure, wow can focus only i few races every time, but damn, even if nelf arent to a human level at least they arent at gnome/tauren/ pre bfa troll level , they have even the most expansed setting of everyone that is still developed basically in every expansion (with entire zones/raid based on them)
    Oh but I do consider knowing the fate of the Shen'dralar as advancement. We saw humans and dwarves in Hellfire, TErrokkar and Shadowmoon, complete with stories they were the main focus of that zone. that is advancement of the race, just like I consider the unplayable night elven groups and horde night elf subr race Nightborne as night elf lore advancement.

    But yes, it's not gnome/tauren levels of neglect, saying that though, I noticed gnomes did get a new city, whiles the night elf core race doesn't have access to theirs cos their sub-race is on the horde. Tuaren also did get lore advancement in WotLk with the Taunka, then again in Cata like every race, and also the yaungol played a role in many zones there, and again we see them in Legion with the Highmountain, the gaps have not been as few and far between with them. The quantity wasn't that great though.

    Also pre-bfa troll had a lot of smaller focuses. Trolls in Zul'gurub, trolls in Zul'aman (TBC), trolls in Zul'drak (WotLK), trolls again in Zul'Gurub (cata in addition to the echo isles revamp), trolls played a huge roll In MoP, and finally took a break for WoD and Legion, before treutning with the biggest bang ever in BFA


    considering that zul aman bosses literally morphs in fully form, gonk never started druidism in cata, he appeared to darkspears and told them to stop "priesting" one loa at a time (but considering nelf never worshipped others than cenarius/malorne its strange). in bfa he says that long ago he decreed to the rastari that thing, so zandalari druids exists for who know much time.
    i mean, we agree, balance is the main problem for the lore, but the rest is simply shorten up as loa/wild god priest=druid
    I don't think the NElves worshipped anyone but Elune, they revered the demi-gods, and druids of some of them are revealed in lore. But explain about gonk.. it was Gonk who set Zentabra on the path to druidsm, teaching her some basics then packing her off to go find the night elves.. or something like that. The same Gonk is the one who then we find in BFA has taught his priests to become druids. He's had 10k years of Cenarius and Malfurion, and he is a wild god, so he could start an order of druids too.

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