Why are so many Alliance factions open to the Horde?

[Specialka]

or it was Varian who was ready to attack him?

people forget or ignore that Varian was more bloodthirsty back then than Garrosh itself, HE started the war especially because he hate and want to kill all orcs


Hypocrisy, she tied again with their friends of alliance, her kin, logically she would "help then"

maybe in her eyes this was not problem since her warriors were not doing the attacks( that she knew) maybe she though just being a advanced base of operations was not breaking the peace

It is not like orcs proved to Varyan that Azeroth would be better off without them. You know: 1st war, second war, Arena with gladiators pit to fight each other until death, etc... Just to name a few things.

[ButterBeast]

Because outside from faction conflict expansions the Horde is utterly irrelevant for the story and Blizzard can't even be bothered to use or create proper factions for them.

That is why i have to constantly follow fucking Brann Bronzebeard from the Explorers League around with my Horde characters, instead of following Highwatcher Tae'thelan Bloodwatcher from the Reliquary. Or why i have to follow Khadgar through WoD as a Horde character, instead of some Horde mage/warlock/shaman whatever doing his job. As, again, Blizzard can't even be arsed to build up a proper Horde mage like Rommath for example.

They are really propping up the first arcanist thalyssra to be the horde mage though.

[Verdugo]

They are really propping up the first arcanist thalyssra to be the horde mage though.

The one that was so scared of Jaina? Really proud of such powerful character.

[Syegfryed]

It is not like orcs proved to Varyan that Azeroth would be better off without them. You know: 1st war, second war, Arena with gladiators pit to fight each other until death, etc... Just to name a few things.

they kinda proved after helping saving the world many times, this is not the point, why he did, but that HE DID

And its not like the orcs didn't had any reason to not hate humans either, Thrall himself passed more difficulty and suffered more in the pits than Varian

[Mehrunes]

I mean, even if the Alliance don't know about his dumbass plan to attack Valgarde in Northrend, they know that he was ready to attack Varian at a diplomatic meeting in Dalaran, and that's even before becoming Warchief. Him being a warmonger isn't exactly reaching.

That makes him a hotheaded moron. Especially since Varian was the one who taunted him to attack.

Now the more salient point to me is why on earth Jaina authorized Theramore to be used as a base of operations for Alliance incursions in the Barrens knowing what kind of person Garrosh was and most likely how he would react. She stood by and let her father die in the name of peace with the Horde, but then just lets Varian send troops to the Barrens without a care in the world a few years later? That plot development was never explained and never made any sense to me. It's not that she was suddenly anti-Horde or anything, since as late as ICC she was proud of Varian for allowing Saurfang to retrieve his son's body.

The attack part isn't about her letting EK members of the Alliance use Theramore as a base of operation though. The EK forces were sent to Kalimdor only as a help for the Night Elves to open up a new front to divide Garrosh's attention. The Alliance attack prior to Garrosh's invasion of Ashenvalde is all on Jaina as it was performed by Northwatch (which was Theramore's territory) alone.

[Grazrug]

So, according to you, because they did not explicitly state, "Based on experience, the Horde's interest in this substance is likely in the nature of using it as a weapon", that had nothing to do with their intent. Do you also need them to explicitly point out the sky is blue for it to be so? Again, sorry to see you need things spelled out.

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They're not going to have actual consequences for their pets, aside from writing that makes teenage emo poetry look deep.

So you have anything else to share apart from attacking 50 % of the community?

[Specialka]

they kinda proved after helping saving the horde many times, this is not the point, why he did, but that HE DID

And its not like the orcs didn't had any reason to not hate humans either, Thrall himself passed more difficulty and suffered more in the pits than Varian

Hum you do realize that the Orcs invaded Azeroth with the objectives of killing and/or enslaving everyone? How would you see invaders from another world? I do not say I like how Blackmoore conducted himself (that guy was a douchebag even by humans standards), but it is not like Orcs had and has proven to everyone else that they are more than bloodthirsty savages.

[Mehrunes]

So, according to you, because they did not explicitly state, "Based on experience, the Horde's interest in this substance is likely in the nature of using it as a weapon", that had nothing to do with their intent. Do you also need them to explicitly point out the sky is blue for it to be so? Again, sorry to see you need things spelled out.

Based on what experience, exactly? Since when does the Horde have a history of weaponizing everything they find? Even the mana bomb that destroyed Theramore was just them making an already existing weapon stronger. Your whole narrative consists of nothing more than you projecting your bias on the Alliance, their own positions be doomed and pretending it somehow constitutes an argument.

[Syegfryed]

Hum you do realize that the Orcs invaded Azeroth with the objectives of killing and/or enslaving everyone?

humm do you realize they were corrupted by the burning legion and after that help save the world many times right?

but it is not like Orcs had and has proven to everyone else that they are more than bloodthirsty savages.

thats not a justification

[Specialka]

humm do you realize they were corrupted by the burning legion and after that help save the world many times right?



thats not a justification

They did get corrupted on their own volition. So it is their problem?

And they did help save the world one time. That did not stop them from practicing slavery and gladiator's fight.

[Terongor]

Shameless plug, here:

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ace-suggestion

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I'm thinking the Alliance High Elves seem intent to keep the Kirin Tor for them as an act of defiance against Quel'thalas like in WoTLK they attempted to cockblock the Blood Elves from the Kirin Tor (thankfully Rhonin vetoed his wife's wish to remove Blood Elves, and like in MoP when they killed more Blood Elves than Jaina did

Well the alliance high elves were traitors and their only leader vereesa just stood by garithoses decision and theu got banished which makes them traitors.

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It is not like orcs proved to Varyan that Azeroth would be better off without them. You know: 1st war, second war, Arena with gladiators pit to fight each other until death, etc... Just to name a few things.

Firsr and second wars were justified as humans had proven to be genocidal maniacs against trolls as all human kingdoms areas were taken with genociding trolls and how human gladiatorial fights in interment camps were hundred times worse than what varian faced and Varian backed those interment camps up and everything which happened there under blackmoore so varian deserved to be in gladiatorial arena, it was justice.

[Moonrage]

1) Well kirin tors had longer ties with kingdom of silvermoon than any other alliance kingdom. Heck kirin tor wouldn't exists with silvermoon.

It's true that the High Elves taught the humans the ways of magic, but they did not found Dalaran. It was purely a human kingdom and it wasn't until later that they established a friendship with Silvermoon.

2) argent dawn members were before they became argent dawn members of scarlet crusade and they are hostile to both factions so ties to alliance don't really exists because of being members of Scarlets before.

I don't really understand what you're saying here, but not every member of the Argent Dawn joined the Scarlet Crusade.

3) Tirion United argent dawn and silver hand to one and silverhand was pretty ceased to exists for a long time after saiden and alexandros made it into scarlets and it was re-established in legion from argent crusade.

Yet it still is an Alliance faction (at least originally).

4) but this is kinda iffy as cenarion circle first and foremost follows word of cenarius and he is unalligned

Cenarius still holds more allegiance to the Night Elves. There are several Dryads and Keepers that are loyal to the Alliance, and there is atleast one Keeper who fought for the Night Elves during the battle of Darkshore.

5) wardens joined alliance in darkshore and them being neutral is only in legion and wardens tried to kill malf and imprison most of nelf population.

Eh, I admit the Wardens was a dumb example, it just seems weird to me that these Night Elves would work together with other races, especially Horde races.

[Specialka]

Well the alliance high elves were traitors and their only leader vereesa just stood by garithoses decision and theu got banished which makes them traitors.

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Firsr and second wars were justified as humans had proven to be genocidal maniacs against trolls as all human kingdoms areas were taken with genociding trolls and how human gladiatorial fights in interment camps were hundred times worse than what varian faced and Varian backed those interment camps up and everything which happened there under blackmoore so varian deserved to be in gladiatorial arena, it was justice.

Can you spout more non sense plz? It is funny to read.

[Terongor]

It's true that the High Elves taught the humans the ways of magic, but they did not found Dalaran. It was purely a human kingdom and it wasn't until later that they established a friendship with Silvermoon.



I don't really understand what you're saying here, but not every member of the Argent Dawn joined the Scarlet Crusade.



Yet it still is an Alliance faction (at least originally).



Cenarius still holds more allegiance to the Night Elves. There are several Dryads and Keepers that are loyal to the Alliance, and there is atleast one Keeper who fought for the Night Elves during the battle of Darkshore.



Eh, I admit the Wardens was a dumb example, it just seems weird to me that these Night Elves would work together with other races, especially Horde races.

relationship of the kirin tor and silvermoon is longer than kirin tor and dalaran.

Argent dawn was established after alexandros mograine died and Saiden dathrohan and alexandros reformed silver hand member who followed them into scarlet crusade and later on some members left and started the argent dawn and from the start argent dawn accepted everyone in its ranks and we scarlet crusade is hostile to alliance so offshoot of an former alliance order who is hostile to allliance and its offshoot is hard to tie down into the alliance.

silver hand was dysfuctioned at the end of wotlk so only commonalities are its name as original silver hand had priests in its ranks.

Cenarius is overall neutral as he owes his life to hamuul and alot of tauren druids and yeah his children take part on alliance side but he stays out of it.

Well wardens worked together with illidari and nelf illidari dhs who should be worst traitors to them so horde races isn't as far of stretch than nelfs who they see as traitors with their blinded zeal.

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Can you spout more non sense plz? It is funny to read.

Well vereesa just let alliance leader try to execute his princes and she did nothing so who is that not treason?

also who is what humans did to amani not a genocide? every definition of genocide would count it or how kingdom of stormwind tried to steal gurubashi lands for no reason and then got butthurt when people who tried it got killed and flayed alive? So forcing families fight each other? have guards beating women and children because they were pissed of at the war or how kirin tor did magical experiments on them and at the same time suffeting from lethargy? varian was only a prisoner and forced to fight people he didn't know while orcs were forced to fight their loved ones.

and varian knew about what happened in interment camps so ofc he deserved that his kingdom used sargerases power and killed hundreds of thousands.

btw every part of that is canon but wouldn't be surprised if you didn't know it.

[Specialka]

relationship of the kirin tor and silvermoon is longer than kirin tor and dalaran.

Argent dawn was established after alexandros mograine died and Saiden dathrohan and alexandros reformed silver hand member who followed them into scarlet crusade and later on some members left and started the argent dawn and from the start argent dawn accepted everyone in its ranks and we scarlet crusade is hostile to alliance so offshoot of an former alliance order who is hostile to allliance and its offshoot is hard to tie down into the alliance.

silver hand was dysfuctioned at the end of wotlk so only commonalities are its name as original silver hand had priests in its ranks.

Cenarius is overall neutral as he owes his life to hamuul and alot of tauren druids and yeah his children take part on alliance side but he stays out of it.

Well wardens worked together with illidari and nelf illidari dhs who should be worst traitors to them so horde races isn't as far of stretch than nelfs who they see as traitors with their blinded zeal.

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Well vereesa just let alliance leader try to execute his princes and she did nothing so who is that not treason?

also who is what humans did to amani not a genocide? every definition of genocide would count it or how kingdom of stormwind tried to steal gurubashi lands for no reason and then got butthurt when people who tried it got killed and flayed alive? So forcing families fight each other? have guards beating women and children because they were pissed of at the war or how kirin tor did magical experiments on them and at the same time suffeting from lethargy? varian was only a prisoner and forced to fight people he didn't know while orcs were forced to fight their loved ones.

and varian knew about what happened in interment camps so ofc he deserved that his kingdom used sargerases power and killed hundreds of thousands.

btw every part of that is canon but wouldn't be surprised if you didn't know it.

So what?

Varian knew what happen in internment camp, so what? They were not in his kingdom, but in Lordaeron's. He could have raise some protest maybe, but so? Orcs were invaders from another world that would have destroy this world. Who cared what happened to them in the camps?

Maybe what the humans did to the Amani was terrible but it happened several centuries ago while the first war happened what, 30 years ago in the lore? So that means that Orcs from the first invasion are still alive and they did not get trialed.

[Terongor]

So what?

Varian knew what happen in internment camp, so what? They were not in his kingdom, but in Lordaeron's. He could have raise some protest maybe, but so? Orcs were invaders from another world that would have destroy this world. Who cared what happened to them in the camps?

Maybe what the humans did to the Amani was terrible but it happened several centuries ago while the first war happened what, 30 years ago in the lore? So that means that Orcs from the first invasion are still alive and they did not get trialed.

That just proves he can't say he was treated badly as a gladiator as he was responsible for worse treament of orcs the very same whom are now using him as gladiators he should have being thankful he would have being murder for forcing people kill their loved ones as such it proves orcs are much more humane than humans. Prove that Orgrim would have destroyed azeroth he banned use of fel magic while alliance was using force against which seeks to enslave all of creation to its will(light).

Also not all interment camps were in kingdom of lordaeron..... like really dude.... current hammerfel is example of it and the money was taken from every alliance member kingdon and they had a say in it and imprisoning children and doing magical experiments on them while they were lethargic. Killing is normal in war but capturing your enemies civilian children and doing magical experiments on them is more morally questonable than horde ever did heck Gul'dan at his worst were more morally right.


adult orc is around 13 years old and during first and second wars saurfang was one youngerside of the horde while drek'thar was middle age and just look at drek'thar during cataclysm heck he couldn't even walk and being shutted into interment camp without a trial is punishment enough as its in everyway morally questonable to do it without a trial as such its a war crime and in legal situations if the progress had being done wrongly accused gets to walk free and they who mismanaged it are punished yeah they did. Name an orc who did get punished?

what kingdom of stormwind did to gurubashi trolls happened -18 years before opening of the dark portal and alliance using power of sargeras to their advantage was far more dangerous to the world than anything horde did and they instigated the war in everyway and humans are alien invaders to trolls they are made by titan not native to azeroth as such trolls should have by your logic right to claim all of their lands from these alien barbarian humans.

[Specialka]

That just proves he can't say he was treated badly as a gladiator as he was responsible for worse treament of orcs the very same whom are now using him as gladiators he should have being thankful he would have being murder for forcing people kill their loved ones as such it proves orcs are much more humane than humans. Prove that Orgrim would have destroyed azeroth he banned use of fel magic while alliance was using force against which seeks to enslave all of creation to its will(light).

Also not all interment camps were in kingdom of lordaeron..... like really dude.... current hammerfel is example of it and the money was taken from every alliance member kingdon and they had a say in it and imprisoning children and doing magical experiments on them while they were lethargic. Killing is normal in war but capturing your enemies civilian children and doing magical experiments on them is more morally questonable than horde ever did heck Gul'dan at his worst were more morally right.


adult orc is around 13 years old and during first and second wars saurfang was one youngerside of the horde while drek'thar was middle age and just look at drek'thar during cataclysm heck he couldn't even walk and being shutted into interment camp without a trial is punishment enough as its in everyway morally questonable to do it without a trial as such its a war crime and in legal situations if the progress had being done wrongly accused gets to walk free and they who mismanaged it are punished yeah they did. Name an orc who did get punished?

what kingdom of stormwind did to gurubashi trolls happened -18 years before opening of the dark portal and alliance using power of sargeras to their advantage was far more dangerous to the world than anything horde did and they instigated the war in everyway and humans are alien invaders to trolls they are made by titan not native to azeroth as such trolls should have by your logic right to claim all of their lands from these alien barbarian humans.

He was not responsible as the camps were not in his kingdom. Do you know what sovereignty means? Hammerfall was not in SW kingdom as far I know.

And you do know that Titans made fucking Azeroth right? So everything they created is not alien to Azeroth.

More non sense plz.

[Grazrug]

He was not responsible as the camps were not in his kingdom. Do you know what sovereignty means? Hammerfall was not in SW kingdom as far I know.

And you do know that Titans made fucking Azeroth right? So everything they created is not alien to Azeroth.

More non sense plz.

Nice how you dodged the part about the gurubashi trolls. Literally all of Stormwind is build on troll and gnoll lands.

[Terongor]

He was not responsible as the camps were not in his kingdom. Do you know what sovereignty means? Hammerfall was not in SW kingdom as far I know.

And you do know that Titans made fucking Azeroth right? So everything they created is not alien to Azeroth.

More non sense plz.

At those moment everyone just followed what Terenas said Danath wanted to execute all orcs and Hammerfell was part of his kingdom novels day of the dragon makes this a huge sticking point as it says alliance leaders decide on the interment camps together and chronicles 2 and 3 agree on it.

Also no they didn't..... chronicles are written from pov of the titans at it clearly states titans didn't create azeroth.... titans found azeroth for the first time long after old gods had found it..... you clearly don't know the lore......

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Nice how you dodged the part about the gurubashi trolls. Literally all of Stormwind is build on troll and gnoll lands.

Yeah and he did dodge it which is not a new thing as this was second time he dodged it and earlier only commented on trolls only because it happened 2700 years before opening of the dark portal.

[Specialka]

At those moment everyone just followed what Terenas said Danath wanted to execute all orcs and Hammerfell was part of his kingdom novels day of the dragon makes this a huge sticking point as it says alliance leaders decide on the interment camps together and chronicles 2 and 3 agree on it.

Also no they didn't..... chronicles are written from pov of the titans at it clearly states titans didn't create azeroth.... titans found azeroth for the first time long after old gods had found it..... you clearly don't know the lore......

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Yeah and he did dodge it which is not a new thing as this was second time he dodged it and earlier only commented on trolls only because it happened 2700 years before opening of the dark portal.

So what? It was a bad thing but again so what? It was millenias ago. Maybe it is time to try to live in peace and harmony, but it seems the trolls are not so enclined to do so since they keep killing everyone that get near them.