Page 6 of 33 FirstFirst ...
4
5
6
7
8
16
... LastLast
  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    This irks me even more tbh.
    You can't keep trying to blend game play reasons with understanding lore, female druids is a good example. You also can't keep lumping the actions of some people in one faction onto all the people in that faction. If we did should we kick all humans or the Alliance out of the Kirin Tor and Dalaran because of Jaina murder of the Blood Elves there, of course not. As for things like Argent Dawn they were looking at the bigger picture, beating and dealing with the Lich King and the Scourge. Along the course of working together to defeat the bigger issue they realized they had other things linking them and didn't split back up.
    Last edited by Alvito; 2020-03-14 at 11:31 PM.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  2. #102
    Dreadlord Ardenaso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    937
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    Then he is a fool. Especially because the Horde has already betrayed the Kirin Tor in the past. Him and Modera are two utter idiots
    that's even weird that Modera joins the Kirin Tor and the High Elves against the Sunreavers but later on she is suddenly Aethas' number one fan; looks like she wants him to be in her personal basement dungeon

    I prefer to think that Khadgar made a resolution for the Kirin Tor to mind the Wound and the Old Gods instead of the Faction War

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lieutenant Commander View Post
    Argents are more like traitors to Lordaeron and by extension to the Alliance. They were a mistake.
    Not really, they were working with the Horde to deal with the Scourge and the Scarlet Crusade

    However, yes really, they didn't even care about their fellow countrymen in Hillsbrad and Southshore getting massacred by the Horde; I was even expecting them to join Anduin and Saurfang against Sylvanas since she was like being Arthas 2.0

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    And why should the Cenarion Circle kick out Horde races? That'd be like saying my company should fire all (for example) Chinese people from their employee list, because the Chinese government did something bad, regardless if the chinese employees agree or not with their country's government's decisions.
    I would fire the Chinese employees if they were sympathetic to the cause that includes killing me off because Xi Jinping told them so and they followed without hesitation

    - - - Updated - - -

    Nvm, I just realized that I forgot that Hamuul and the Horde druids were all sent to the Wound away from the war and Malfurion probably forgave them
    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ace-suggestion

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    Because these comparisons don't make any sense. If you want to have an answer, then yes, I would fire all my Chinese employees if their government told them to burn down my factory, knowing that they'd likely obey.
    Misquote, perhaps? I mentioned nothing about the Chinese.

    There's also no evidence of Tauren/Troll members of the Cenarion Circle participating in the War of the Thorns, or of Sylvanas demanding their participation. In fact, save for the Divine Bell, there's no evidence of either faction taking advantage of neutral factions to gain the upperhand over the other.
    Last edited by StationaryHawk; 2020-03-15 at 03:05 AM.

  4. #104
    Dreadlord Ardenaso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    937
    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    Misquote, perhaps? I mentioned nothing about the Chinese.

    There's also no evidence of Tauren/Troll members of the Cenarion Circle participating in the War of the Thorns, or of Sylvanas demanding their participation. In fact, save for the Divine Bell, there's no evidence of either faction taking advantage of neutral factions to gain the upperhand over the other.
    yes, it's the opposite. Sylvanas sent them away so they wouldn't interfere in her killing Malfurion

    since Hamuul regretted on being the lead advocate for allowing the Forsaken to the Horde, I'd assume in his wavelength that the Horde Cenarios would've joined Saurfang too
    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ace-suggestion

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    I would fire the Chinese employees if they were sympathetic to the cause that includes killing me off because Xi Jinping told them so and they followed without hesitation
    I'll repeat what I wrote in that quote of mine: regardless of affiliation.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  6. #106
    Herald of the Titans Maljinwo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Buenos Aires, Argentina
    Posts
    2,979
    The Alliance factions go neutral

    The Horde gets their leaders killed off
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  7. #107
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Empire of Man
    Posts
    6,585
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    So what's the deal with making factions that were originally Alliance affiliated neutral? It's honestly insulting to Alliance players that iconic alliance factions are now open to the Horde. Examples of these factions include:

    - The Kirin Tor. I know that they've always had strong ties with Silvermoon but it was originally a human kingdom. And we all know how the Horde betrayed them back in MoP.

    - Argent Dawn (now Argent Crusade).

    - Knights of the Silver Hand. Originally a human organisation of Paladins, now Paladins of every race are allowed in (including Blood Elves and Tauren).

    - Cenarion Circle and Cenarion Expedition. I know this is technically a Night Elf organisation, but anyway. This one makes the least sense of them all. Not even Night Elf women were allowed in when it was first founded. Now every idiot that can grow a pumpkin gets a membership. It makes even less sense after the War of Thorns. Malfurion is the leader of the CC, why hasn't he kicked out all the Tauren and Trolls yet?

    - The Wardens. Led by quite possible the most xenophobic Night Elf out there, yet they have no trouble working together with the Horde. Eventually bites them in the ass when Nathanos kills Sira and raises her as a forsaken.
    Because the horde races are not depicted as evil in the game, which is also why most of the Alliance factions were also friendly with the Horde in the past. The Kirin Tor, Argent Dawn and Knights of the Silver Hand are all pretty focused around dealing with a big problem, so if you are white, blue or green should matter little for them.
    The Cenarion Circle and the Cenarion Expedition are a first and foremost a druidic faction, so since the Taurens are druids, the rest of the Horde can be easily seen as allies.

    The Wardens were wierd, but since they are a faction with one purpose, to either keep illidan captured or fight the Legion, Horde or Alliance matters little.

    The thing with most sub-factions in the game, is that they see no evil in the Horde or Alliance, just able bodies who want to fight against the common enemy. We don't play in a world, where factions are evil and the war between the Horde and Alliance is well... between the Horde and Alliance. All other factions care little about it and just wants help.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  8. #108
    Dreadlord Ardenaso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    937
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    The Alliance factions go neutral

    The Horde gets their leaders killed off
    The Horde gets their leaders killed off while the Alliance gets their general populace killed off

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, the Wardens all fought in the Battle for Darkshore; and the Silver Hand all fought in the Battle for Stromguarde.

    The Sunwalkers and the Blood Knights already left the Silver Hand as of BFA
    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ace-suggestion

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  9. #109
    Herald of the Titans Maljinwo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Buenos Aires, Argentina
    Posts
    2,979
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    The Horde gets their leaders killed off while the Alliance gets their general populace killed off
    General populace deaths in WoW have almost no consequences in Warcraft though. No one runs out of resources or army apparently
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  10. #110
    In the case of the shatar, kirin tor, cenarion, argent dawn, wardens, etc.

    They were all alliance centric but neutral for the sake of the world.

    The kirin tor are probably the best example of this since you could tell that the npcs were still not super friendly towards horde characters.

    But as we saw the wardens and cenarion both faught for the alliance when the horde attacked the night elves.

    If the kirin tor were to be involved in BfA (but they weren't since Blizz shelved them), I highly doubt they would be supporting the horde's genocidal campaign.


    That being said, I do find it kinda silly that there are no horde centric neutral factions other than maybe earthen ring.

    Like every shared main city hub has been an alliance one so far. I think it'd be cool to have a neutral horde centric main expansion stronghold alternative to Dal and Shat.

    For now Blizzard only writes the horde to be warmongering twats every time a major threat is taken care of and it's really dumb.
    Last edited by Grythletubs; 2020-03-15 at 05:32 AM.

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Which, at their core, means they are two different groups with different ideologies.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Yeah, and so what? None of those races are part of the Cenarion Circle. And as for the Argent Crusade, look at the characters: they're not representative of their respective races' bad traits, like Leonid Barthalomew.
    I didn't say I believed what they had said just that your analogy is terribly flawed.

    Then why would you suggest that Staghelm represents the entire Alliance?

    But anyways the fact of the matter is that in order to survive you lump things together like if you have a bunch of bad experiences with dogs you are going to be wary of all dogs. So if a people side with a group that goes against everything you believe you are going to be more wary of them. And you certainly wouldn't stay out of a conflict between them and a people you side with knowing what will happen to the very nature you hold dear if the one side wins.

  12. #112
    Sometimes I feel these kind of topics are meant for baiting. Especially when they blow up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Reinhart11 View Post
    Because outside from faction conflict expansions the Horde is utterly irrelevant for the story and Blizzard can't even be bothered to use or create proper factions for them.

    That is why i have to constantly follow fucking Brann Bronzebeard from the Explorers League around with my Horde characters, instead of following Highwatcher Tae'thelan Bloodwatcher from the Reliquary. Or why i have to follow Khadgar through WoD as a Horde character, instead of some Horde mage/warlock/shaman whatever doing his job. As, again, Blizzard can't even be arsed to build up a proper Horde mage like Rommath for example.
    From the first page. Nailed it. It's not bias. Just Blizzards incompetence writing both sides relevant.

  13. #113
    I mean, it's always been a meme, that Alliance characters become neutral and Horde characters get turned evil.

  14. #114
    The Insane Aeula's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Nearby, preventing you from fast traveling.
    Posts
    17,218
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    - The Kirin Tor. And we all know how the Horde betrayed them back in MoP.
    Other way around. The Kirin Tor betrayed the Horde civilians living in Dalaran. Ultimately they were never actually neutral. All it took was one mad leader who didn't bother consulting the council and they all followed like sheep back to the Alliance.

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    It is quite common in WoW that whomever is prevalent in zone is going to be slaughtered. Zandalar is about killing trolls, Mechagon is about killing mechagnomes and so on.
    Yes and no....because you sidestep some important things in your comparison.
    - First off those are allied races. Not 1 of the core races
    - secondly we spent a shit ton of time questing etc ( getting rep) in those zones.
    - we get a lot of new lore for those zones
    - we get dungeons end/or raids for those zones
    - and those zones are 1 piece of land. Not all the lands for all the people's.
    - was dazalhor burned down to a crisp???

    The problem i have ( and you are clearly sidestepping) is not that it happend to us. But how its storywise ( or better said lack off) handeld.



    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    They were only officially neutral. I have a question for you. What was leader of Kirin Tor doing in Theramore?
    i have a questions for you:
    - Who was the founder of theramore
    - who got warned by the horde ( cow prince) of the attack on said persons home town.


    And btw....theramore was at the start of mist of pandaria. And even after that jaina was still not willing to kick the sunreavers out of dalaran. She only did that AFTER garrosh bell thing.

    GG on completely failing at lore.

  16. #116
    Durotar for Orcs, Mulgore for Tauren, Quel'Thalas for Blood Elves, Eastern Kingdoms for all. Stay woke.

  17. #117
    Because the Alliance are systematically written down and dismantled to make room for the Horde. And it is the Horde's identity to get in the front line and tell you how founding Alliance kingdoms and factions weren't actually Alliance and they belong to tribal barbarians that invaded from another planet.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    I didn't say I believed what they had said just that your analogy is terribly flawed.

    Then why would you suggest that Staghelm represents the entire Alliance?
    I didn't say that to you. I was responding to the OP who believes all members of the Horde should be kicked out of the Cenarion Circle, regardless of affiliation and if they agree or not with the Horde's leadership.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    Misquote, perhaps? I mentioned nothing about the Chinese.

    There's also no evidence of Tauren/Troll members of the Cenarion Circle participating in the War of the Thorns, or of Sylvanas demanding their participation. In fact, save for the Divine Bell, there's no evidence of either faction taking advantage of neutral factions to gain the upperhand over the other.
    You mentioned comparisons, I thought you were talking about the Chinese comparison someone made earlier.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Dalaran was founded by human merchants that were later bought out by human magi.
    Source? I just looked it up and it isn't mentioned anywhere on wowpedia. Most Dalaran magi hailed from Storm, and the citizens of Dalaran tolerated their presence. In turn, the magi protected the civilians. It was a mutually beneficial agreement.

    It wasn't until later that Dalaran established a friendship with the High Elves.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by baskev View Post
    Yes and no....because you sidestep some important things in your comparison.
    - First off those are allied races. Not 1 of the core races
    - secondly we spent a shit ton of time questing etc ( getting rep) in those zones.
    - we get a lot of new lore for those zones
    - we get dungeons end/or raids for those zones
    - and those zones are 1 piece of land. Not all the lands for all the people's.
    - was dazalhor burned down to a crisp???

    The problem i have ( and you are clearly sidestepping) is not that it happend to us. But how its storywise ( or better said lack off) handeld.
    Forsaken lost their Lordaeron too. You can say that the capital was blighted by Sylvanas(which was a part of the defence anyway) but the all the settlements around were burned by Alliance artillery.

    i have a questions for you:
    - Who was the founder of theramore
    Jaina, princess of Kul Tiras.
    - who got warned by the horde ( cow prince) of the attack on said persons home town.
    Jaina, lady of Theramore.


    And btw....theramore was at the start of mist of pandaria. And even after that jaina was still not willing to kick the sunreavers out of dalaran. She only did that AFTER garrosh bell thing.

    GG on completely failing at lore.
    That doesn't change the fact that Dalaran broke neutrality before Theramore.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •