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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    • Cata - every race gets a revamp - minimal in game presentation of the highborne, night elves rubbish and beaten everywhere
    no - development and minimal involvement till
    That's probably because the "high born" elves were viewed as either Shendralar exiles OR blood elves exclusively...

    edit:

    When I say blood elves I'm including all the thalassian elves as well, so the high elves that remained in the alliance areas at the time as well.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    The Horde raided the homeland of the Night Elves and Malfurion himself was nearly killed by a Horde general. That should be enough for him to kick out every Tauren and Troll druid.




    This irks me even more tbh.
    ... A lot of NPCs in WoW are shown as neutral. That alone explains why they dont commit racial purging of their ranks. Tirion is neutral Alliance side. Thrall and the Earthen Ring are neutral horde side.

    In the WoW story, weve seen a lot of characters of specific races who do not care for the Alliance Horde conflict.

    Cenarion Circle, despite being Nelf in origin, is not Alliance.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by yani9841 View Post
    in that case they aren't the horde I'm talking. Orgrim's horde and Thrall's horde aren't the same entity.



    Kael was never in the horde. He departed with Illidan and appointed Lorthemar before the events of TBC even began.
    Huh? You got the wrong person.
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by yani9841 View Post
    in that case they aren't the horde I'm talking. Orgrim's horde and Thrall's horde aren't the same entity.
    Thrall was chosen warchief by Orgrim. They were friends. I think we can consider Orgrim Thrall's predecessor.
    Kael was never in the horde. He departed with Illidan and appointed Lorthemar before the events of TBC even began.
    Appointed Lor'themar but still was the boss. He was Horde-affiliated but he was also absent.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by yani9841 View Post
    in that case they aren't the horde I'm talking. Orgrim's horde and Thrall's horde aren't the same entity.
    The Alliance treats them like they are. During the scenario to rescue Baine during the fighting Shaw takes some time out of fighting to make a dig at Thrall and Varok saying that he somehow holds THEM responsible for King Llane's death, something that happened when Thrall was an infant, for one thing. It may not be the entire Alliance that holds this mindset, but the leader of their intelligence division and one of their High King's top advisors sure does.
    The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Huh? You got the wrong person.
    only cause I'm leaving your post on the copy to break up you OTHER posts to respond.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Thrall was chosen warchief by Orgrim. They were friends. I think we can consider Orgrim Thrall's predecessor.
    Yes, but Thrall's horde is made up of totally different forces only bringing in some of the same groups. No amani trolls, no major gruop of ogres. not even all the orcish clans followed in. Thrall's freed orcs and whatever groups he found along the way to founding Orgrimmar. I can't call it the same horde.

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Appointed Lor'themar but still was the boss. He was Horde-affiliated but he was also absent.
    Kael never made any approach to the horde and was already hooking up with the legion by the time the horde was working with Quel'thalas.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by yani9841 View Post
    Yes, but Thrall's horde is made up of totally different forces only bringing in some of the same groups. No amani trolls, no major gruop of ogres. not even all the orcish clans followed in. Thrall's freed orcs and whatever groups he found along the way to founding Orgrimmar. I can't call it the same horde.
    This Horde is three ships of orcs.,
    Kael never made any approach to the horde and was already hooking up with the legion by the time the horde was working with Quel'thalas.
    But blood elves considered him their prince and Lor'themar joined the Horde on his behalf.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    But blood elves considered him their prince and Lor'themar joined the Horde on his behalf.
    but Kael never weighed in on the matter.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    The Horde raided the homeland of the Night Elves and Malfurion himself was nearly killed by a Horde general. That should be enough for him to kick out every Tauren and Troll druid.
    my take from why it didnt happen (aside from the obvious stupid answer of "cUZ bLiZaRD waNtED tO" ) is that not all druids are in the cenarion circle and those that are in the cenarion circle are mostly natural and often seen in their faction for the regards of things that relates to the druids or druid stuff.

    which also kinda ruins how druids work, because unlike warriors and rogues who dont really need someone to teach them or mages who can learn their stuff without directly learning from someone, druids are kind of a hero class to begin with like how DKs came to be because of arthas and how DHs are made and trained because of Illidan. druids too came to be because of cenarious and need to learn their specific ways from their elders.
    but this idea was already destroyed when they introduced zandalari and kul tiran druids into the game, UNLESS they too were trained by cenarious or someone he trained and was very powerful but now out of the picture.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by yani9841 View Post
    but Kael never weighed in on the matter.
    He didn't complain when he heard about it.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    He didn't complain when he heard about it.
    pretty sure he was already in with the legion by the time we see him in outland and he never returned to Quel'thalas (before we turned him into a corpse that is)

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Ouch, did a void elf kick your dog?
    No. I don't even like blood elves. I just find it ridiculous that Blizzard thinks it is okay for a race that is self-defined as traitors to exist, and appalling and disgusting that anyone would consider that appealing.

    Also, it's a horrid shoehorned excuse to have high elves, without having high elves, despite high elves already being perfectly playable.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2020-03-15 at 11:04 PM. Reason: Received Infraction

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    No. I don't even like blood elves. I just find it ridiculous that Blizzard thinks it is okay for a race that is self-defined as traitors to exist, and appalling and disgusting that anyone would consider that appealing.

    Also, it's a horrid shoehorned excuse to have high elves, without having high elves, despite high elves already being perfectly playable.
    Okay then, I am an appalling and disgusting person.

    … may I now enjoy my void elf with shadow wings?
    Expansion Storylines ranking:

    Legion > Cataclysm > MoP > BfA up to 8.2.5 > Wrath > TBC > WoD > Dragonflight > BfA 8.3 > Shadowlands

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Okay then, I am an appalling and disgusting person.

    … may I now enjoy my void elf with shadow wings?
    Correct, and while I would generally be of the opinion that people should be allowed to enjoy what they want, I'm inclined to make an exception in this case—so no.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by yani9841 View Post
    That's probably because the "high born" elves were viewed as either Shendralar exiles OR blood elves exclusively...
    Quote Originally Posted by yani9841 View Post

    edit:

    When I say blood elves I'm including all the thalassian elves as well, so the high elves that remained in the alliance areas at the time as well.

    No, Highborne elves were never blood elves. Some players might have viewed them that way after Suramar (some BElf players wanting the night elf connection when they saw oh.. night elf cities are pretty, let's recognise we're related - ask them where they were during cata with the Shen'dralar who instead have a ruined city), but it is clear that high elves and blood elves were high elves and blood elves, not highborne.

    Highborne were always night elves and became playable in cata, they are a huge part of night elf lore, same as the Order of Elune, the druids and the Illidari, they led night elf society for the best parts of 5k years. They are what connect night elves to high elves, but the highborne group with Darth'remar became high elves (then many became blood elves), and highbonre don't look like high elves.. but they're related. Cata has a storyline and a book going over the reuniting process of the surviving original highborne and the Darnassian group, MoP through to BFA show lots of highborne npc, and Azsuna and Suramar are highborne based stories and they are all night elven whether kaldorei or Shal'dorei.

    But it's still no excuse not to show more in-game. They are serious enough that they are a focus of an entire book in this cataclysm stage, but my point is that blizzard don't like showing night elf development in game at all, yet it interests people greatly always has - the success of the Legion broken isle zones, especially Suramar and the Nightborne, and the success that spun 4 novels on them, is ample proof.

    Proof of in-game neglect prior to Legion? Worgen come to Darnassus, they get 1 tree, place isn't upgraded, Stormwind and orgrimmar are. Eldre'thalas, that should have been upgraded isn't. compared to the story of theforsaken we get night elves whipped in stonetalon, Desolace, Azshar and Ashenvale, it doesn't matter if they're sentinels, new mages or druids. The druids appear in Mount Hyjal, but it's a class thing, not a race thing as you can clearly see lots of tauren and night elves, and the new worgen and troll candidates playing part.

    Point was, the night elves are not seriuously devleoped in cata, they are given similar treatment to all the other original races that got revamped, and they actually are the only ones whooped in a string of storylines that see them nawrrowly escape annihilation, which Danuser and Afrisiabi give them a few years later in the WoT. Even their arcane development and pristine city with its nigiht elf sub-race are given to the horde when the decision is made to make them layable.

    If that's not neglect and bias, or i don't care or a giant freaking FUCK YOU bend over and take it to night elves I don't know what is. Seeing night elves devastated, and every y good thing done to them, either shared with blood elves (demon hunters and nightborne ) or taken over to the horde entirely (Suramar).

    so much good its done them.
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2020-03-15 at 11:59 PM.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    I just find it ridiculous that Blizzard thinks it is okay for a race that is self-defined as traitors to exist
    Considering how often elves change their allegiance, void elves can be considered loyalists.

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Lieutenant Commander View Post
    Considering how often elves change their allegiance, void elves can be considered loyalists.
    As long as they suck on human dicks.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Lieutenant Commander View Post
    Considering how often elves change their allegiance, void elves can be considered loyalists.
    Allegiance to the Horde or Alliance doesn't matter. The disgusting part is being traitors to one's own people, which they are regardless of how you wish to spin it.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    As long as they suck on human dicks.
    No escaping that, not even Sylvanas could, the natural state of elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arikara View Post
    Allegiance to the Horde or Alliance doesn't matter. The disgusting part is being traitors to one's own people, which they are regardless of how you wish to spin it.
    Every elf is a traitor to other part of the elves. No matter how you spin this it doesn't work unless you consider them all traitors.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    No, Highborne elves were never blood elves. Some players might have viewed them that way after Suramar (wanting the night elf connection when they saw oh.. night elf cities are pretty, let's recognise we're related - ask them where they were during cata with the Shen'dralar who instead have a ruined city), but it is clear that high elves and blood elves were high elves and blood elves, not highborne.
    I think this is a later stance that came about after much discussion about what the elves were.

    It is my opinion that the majority thought was that Night elves banished the Highborne in almost all cases. those Exiled beings are what turned into the high elves and the high elves turned into the blood elves.

    The Shendralar were the only pocket of OG pre-sundering elves that didn't get word of the banishing/exile

    This was the lore of the time in cataclysm that was later mucked up because other shit also wound up happening.

    I'm not trying to argue the CURRENT lore. I'm stating what the lore was going into Cataclysm.

    So this whole Highborne were night elves thing that you're going to go on about was not what the story was pushing. The story at that time was "night elves kicked out the highborne".

    Later retcons changed shit so now we sit here and wonder why Shendralar came out looking like normal night elves and not mutated somehow.

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