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  1. #281
    I am Murloc! Varodoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    Independent? Alleria herself said in audiodrama, that she won't live without Turalyon, if he dies.
    And? Since Legion, she's had her own storyline and interacted with Turalyon only sporadically.

    Also, wow, a wife who dearly loves her husband. That must clearly mean that she's his "fucktoy", or whatever mysoginistic BS haters come up with.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-03-19 at 12:55 PM.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    It has absolutely nothing to do with the Alliance, I don't give a damn about either faction, the Windrunners are just all annoying as hell, whether it is the screecher and her crusade against life, the weeper who should have died at theramore , then of course the one who believes it is a good idea to play with the worst insanity inducing powers in the universe and to top it all off banging generic human number 12.

    So in short the Windrunners are just garbage for me.
    You do understand we are getting this, because this is what the current creative leads think is cool right?

    I've been pointing out for a few years now, that they need to zoom out and take an aerial veiw at what they're actually saying/doing - the story is far too dark and too crazy in a lot of places.

    The people and things they like and are trying to do well are faiing hard at actually being good - point case are the horde and teh Windrunner sisters, they are all faves of the devs, especially the screecher. Not one is a beacon of light and hope or done really well. Saying that though, they do have a lot of fans anyway. horde has the biggest harcore /endgame following by a large enough margin it is very noticeable, and the Windrunner sisters, especially sylvanas and new Alleria are very popular - but the quality, the stuff they are used for, well just zoom out and consider..what are we saying with all this?

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    the story is far too dark
    What the fuck? Its naively optimistic and you call it dark?

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by RadasNoir View Post
    Yes, and the Internet was right.

    And only now, is one of the writers claiming that was the plan the entire time.

    So, people are upset because either Blizzard was lying initially when they claimed Sylvanas was NOT Garrosh 2.0, or Danuser is lying now about that always being the plan. Or both.
    Except they didn't lie. They are just still too similar for people to care.

    When they say she's not Garrosh 2 she isn't, as long as there are minute differences like their actual goals. But because they're so similar in where they are in the story (bad villain warchief) that she may as well be Garrosh 2 to the mass majority of fans, so it doesn't matter what the actual truth is.

    Blizz didn't lie. They were just too tricky with the fanbase and they don't like that.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    What the fuck? Its naively optimistic and you call it dark?
    It is still dark, full of horro, mishap and things going horribly wrong constantly with little to nothing of the opposite ever shown and if shown, not really highlighted. Far more destruction than construction, corruption than the reversal of it being shown.

    Dark plots nad themes across the board, death, darkness, blackness, corruption, all major highlighted themes, and their opposites? It's like such doen'st exist.

    You surely had noticed that as well, no matter how naively optimistic it seems. Us defeating the odds all the time is often meaningfless because what that means aand the effect of that is never shown, replaced by more trouble and darkness for us to overcome. No balancing factor. Frankly we only seem to defeat stuff to give us an excuse to survive to beat the next disaster.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    It is still dark, full of horro, mishap and things going horribly wrong constantly with little to nothing of the opposite ever shown and if shown, not really highlighted. Far more destruction than construction, corruption than the reversal of it being shown.

    Dark plots nad themes across the board, death, darkness, blackness, corruption, all major highlighted themes, and their opposites? It's like such doen'st exist.

    You surely had noticed that as well, no matter how naively optimistic it seems. Us defeating the odds all the time is often meaningfless because what that means aand the effect of that is never shown, replaced by more trouble and darkness for us to overcome. No balancing factor. Frankly we only seem to defeat stuff to give us an excuse to survive to beat the next disaster.
    Sorry but no, someone dying from time to time doesnt make it dark. Especialy since death has no meaning.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    What the fuck? Its naively optimistic and you call it dark?
    The plot elements are dark (extermination of entire races, endless wars of attrition, end of the world etc.) but the actual messaging is naively optimistic. It's a very strange mismatch.

  8. #288
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    The plot elements are dark (extermination of entire races, endless wars of attrition, end of the world etc.) but the actual messaging is naively optimistic. It's a very strange mismatch.
    Where do you read naive optimism from BfA's story? The patchy resolution of a global conflict between two superpowers? The omnicidal maniac still in the wind and threatening the very balance of the cosmic forces of life and death? The rampaging Old God that threatened reality itself, and the very notion that existence on Azeroth is so fragile and precarious that the Void could conceivably overwrite it at a whim?

    There doesn't seem to be much optimism to be had beyond the notion that the Horde and Alliance are, at least temporarily, no longer actively at one another's throats.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Where do you read naive optimism from BfA's story? The patchy resolution of a global conflict between two superpowers? The omnicidal maniac still in the wind and threatening the very balance of the cosmic forces of life and death? The rampaging Old God that threatened reality itself, and the very notion that existence on Azeroth is so fragile and precarious that the Void could conceivably overwrite it at a whim?

    There doesn't seem to be much optimism to be had beyond the notion that the Horde and Alliance are, at least temporarily, no longer actively at one another's throats.
    Thats one way to see it. Its also WRONG.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    Lol, really, ignorant as ever.

    And he kind of admitted they straight up lied to the fans when saying Sylvanas won't be Garrosh 2.0. - No instead she's a Garrosh 2.0 with nuances... with a shade of purple maybe?

    These old white men at Blizzard are just complacent dickheads. If they haven't learned how to make a good expac or tell a good story by now, they most likely never will.
    They also said something like N'zoth was always meant to be in BfA.

    Fuck off, sir, I don't believe you for one damn minute. Yes, he was always supposed to be in BfA... IN SOME FORM... but as a boss? I call BS on that. I think they decided to change things up last minute with the story of Shadowlands.

    They originally said that Sylvanas would not be Garrosh 2.0 AND that things in Azeroth were not always black and white. They mentioned that Sylvanas' actions would be morally gray, and then she turned out to be Garrosh 2.0 cartoon villain flying off into the sunset for next expansion after she started a genocide for the sole purpose of gaining more power. Like... the fuck? How is THAT MORALLY GRAY.

    Also!!! The lore book they wrote that was supposed to tie into BfA directly contradicts many of Sylvanas' actions and feelings from BfA. She speaks INSIDE OF HER OWN MIND and curses Vol'jin for making her warchief... and then later on... IT WAS ALL PART OF HER MASTER PLAN. This is where the 10 dimensional chess meme came from. She knew she was in a book and made up her own thoughts so we would all be fooled! IT'S MORALLY GRAY!!
    Last edited by Hctaz; 2020-03-19 at 04:15 PM.

  11. #291
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Thats one way to see it. Its also WRONG.
    Wrong in what way?
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Wrong in what way?
    Lets get to it.

    "The patchy resolution of a global conflict between two superpowers?"

    The one that everyone likes except those few that are described as "consumed with vengeance" by our resident "Spiritual liege"?

    "The omnicidal maniac still in the wind and threatening the very balance of the cosmic forces of life and death?"

    Who cares, we kill such twats 12 times each day during world quest grind and nothing comes out of it.

    "The rampaging Old God that threatened reality itself, and the very notion that existence on Azeroth is so fragile and precarious that the Void could conceivably overwrite it at a whim?"

    Just send in few people with an asspull mcguffin and it will be allright. We already know that 75% of the Horde would be enough to defeat freed old god, per our void expert and idiot savant, Alleria Windrunner.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Where do you read naive optimism from BfA's story? The patchy resolution of a global conflict between two superpowers? The omnicidal maniac still in the wind and threatening the very balance of the cosmic forces of life and death? The rampaging Old God that threatened reality itself, and the very notion that existence on Azeroth is so fragile and precarious that the Void could conceivably overwrite it at a whim?

    There doesn't seem to be much optimism to be had beyond the notion that the Horde and Alliance are, at least temporarily, no longer actively at one another's throats.
    It's the same naive optimism that was always present in Warcraft. Horde and Alliance are at each other's throats for the nth time, yet all the main characters seem to agree that Horde and Alliance should be friends which is why the only way this war even started was because the Horde got "hijacked" and collectively mindcontrolled by an evil, pessimistic person who proclaimed that war is inevitable anways and literally wants to "kill hope". Of course that evil person loses and gets proven wrong by everyone teaming up against them. Because of that, there is no need for any change because the evil elements have been rooted out and now everyone can be friends with each other again. Hell, most of the neutral characters are so woke and high IQ that they don't even side with their own people in the war because they seemingly live in an alternate timeline in which their people don't get slaughtered left and right.
    Every single major character who doesn't share this optimism either gets depicted as crazy (Sylvanas), overly vengeful (Tyrande, Genn), or cold-hearted, evil and ultimately unreasonable (Garrosh) and these characters only exist to get proven wrong time and time again.

  14. #294
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Lets get to it.

    "The patchy resolution of a global conflict between two superpowers?"

    The one that everyone likes except those few that are described as "consumed with vengeance" by our resident "Spiritual liege"?
    Aside from the heaping armfuls of in-game quotes that show almost no one is convinced it is a lasting peace, everyone is concerned about its fraying tenuousness, and in which there are camps in both the Horde and Alliance committed to continuing the conflict (e.g. the remaining Sylvanas loyalists and Tyrande's militant faction)? So far so not very optimistic, all in all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    "The omnicidal maniac still in the wind and threatening the very balance of the cosmic forces of life and death?"

    Who cares, we kill such twats 12 times each day during world quest grind and nothing comes out of it.
    Game mechanics != lore, and insofar as I know no WQ involves itself with Sylvanas thus far?

    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    "The rampaging Old God that threatened reality itself, and the very notion that existence on Azeroth is so fragile and precarious that the Void could conceivably overwrite it at a whim?"

    Just send in few people with an asspull mcguffin and it will be allright. We already know that 75% of the Horde would be enough to defeat freed old god, per our void expert and idiot savant, Alleria Windrunner.
    Which does nothing to address the actual concern underscored by N'Zoth's tactic: the overwriting of reality itself. The machine that would've allowed it, the Orgination Complex in Uldum, is still present and operational following N'Zoth's defeat - meaning reality is just a few button presses from being overwritten at the whim of some greater scope outside force. Sure, we defeated N'Zoth handily enough, but could we do the same thing to the Void Lords themselves? Or whatever it is that governs the actions of the Light? If N'Zoth can use the Forge then couldn't they? It's now and remains a Sword of Damocles hovering atop Azeroth.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    It's the same naive optimism that was always present in Warcraft. Horde and Alliance are at each other's throats for the nth time, yet all the main characters seem to agree that Horde and Alliance should be friends which is why the only way this war even started was because the Horde got "hijacked" and collectively mindcontrolled by an evil, pessimistic person who proclaimed that war is inevitable anways and literally wants to "kill hope". Of course that evil person loses and gets proven wrong by everyone teaming up against them. Because of that, there is no need for any change because the evil elements have been rooted out and now everyone can be friends with each other again. Hell, most of the neutral characters are so woke and high IQ that they don't even side with their own people in the war because they seemingly live in an alternate timeline in which their people don't get slaughtered left and right.

    Every single major character who doesn't share this optimism either gets depicted as crazy (Sylvanas), overly vengeful (Tyrande, Genn), or cold-hearted, evil and ultimately unreasonable (Garrosh) and these characters only exist to get proven wrong time and time again.
    Hyperbole aside, I don't really read that as "naive optimism," but really the only resolution that leaves people alive to actually have a future. The Horde and Alliance basically have two options when it comes to resolving their essential conflict: either A.) fight it out until no one remains to carry on the struggle, or B.) concede to some kind of limited armistice and reconcile yourself to occasional smaller-scale altercations. The only resolution total war has to offer is a mutual kill - where there will be either no victor aside from the scavengers feasting on the stiffening corpses of the dead and dying, or a hollowed-out "victor" whose victory was so Pyrrhic that they're left as easy prey for whichever of the cast of greater scope threats to gobble up as an aperitif. Simply put, the Horde/Alliance conflict is a story that goes nowhere except a mass grave, and both the Horde and Alliance woke up to that fact far too late in the narrative to label them as "high IQ." A few might've been more slightly ahead of the curve than their constituencies, but not by very much. Ditto when the one instigating the lion's share of the conflict has completely ulterior motives for igniting and continuing it (such as the case with Sylvanas).

    This isn't optimism, it's pragmatism. And the individuals committed to continuing the conflict aren't the realists in this context - they're just driven by passions they can't (or won't) ignore. Not to say they don't have some justification for them, either; but the end-result remains the same and no will win by any stretch of the term. Both Anduin and Saurfang may be naive as the day is long - but that doesn't actually make them wrong, either. The conflict needed to end, and if it hadn't it's likely N'Zoth's plan would've gone on unimpeded the sole victor of the Blood War would've been the Black Empire full of insane leaders and Old God-worshiping cultists.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    the sole victor of the Blood War would've been the Black Empire full of insane leaders and Old God-worshiping cultists.
    I thought it was fourth war?


    Anyway, doubt it. Cataclysm has shown us that Old God-worshiping cultists are trained in pre-school trivia questions and running away. And they are bad at it too since our characters were very quickly promoted into giving motivational speeches and given elemental powers to kill legion remnants after we passed the "test".

    There is no way such clowns would be able to bring an end of times.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Hyperbole aside, I don't really read that as "naive optimism," but really the only resolution that leaves people alive to actually have a future. The Horde and Alliance basically have two options when it comes to resolving their essential conflict: either A.) fight it out until no one remains to carry on the struggle, or B.) concede to some kind of limited armistice and reconcile yourself to occasional smaller-scale altercations. The only resolution total war has to offer is a mutual kill - where there will be either no victor aside from the scavengers feasting on the stiffening corpses of the dead and dying, or a hollowed-out "victor" whose victory was so Pyrrhic that they're left as easy prey for whichever of the cast of greater scope threats to gobble up as an aperitif. Simply put, the Horde/Alliance conflict is a story that goes nowhere except a mass grave, and both the Horde and Alliance woke up to that fact far too late in the narrative to label them as "high IQ." A few might've been more slightly ahead of the curve than their constituencies, but not by very much. Ditto when the one instigating the lion's share of the conflict has completely ulterior motives for igniting and continuing it (such as the case with Sylvanas).

    This isn't optimism, it's pragmatism. And the individuals committed to continuing the conflict aren't the realists in this context - they're just driven by passions they can't (or won't) ignore. Not to say they don't have some justification for them, either; but the end-result remains the same and no will win by any stretch of the term. Both Anduin and Saurfang may be naive as the day is long - but that doesn't actually make them wrong, either. The conflict needed to end, and if it hadn't it's likely N'Zoth's plan would've gone on unimpeded the sole victor of the Blood War would've been the Black Empire full of insane leaders and Old God-worshiping cultists.
    And that's what I mean when I say that the messaging is naively optimistic. Within the boundaries of the Warcraft universe, the only pragmatic and rational course of action is offered by the naive, optimistic, idealistic characters that want to befriend their enemy, hoping that they secretly want to do the same thing even though they're pretty much always waging war. It never really backfires and they pretty much always get proven right by the outcome of these stories.

  17. #297
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    I thought it was fourth war?


    Anyway, doubt it. Cataclysm has shown us that Old God-worshiping cultists are trained in pre-school trivia questions and running away. And they are bad at it too since our characters were very quickly promoted into giving motivational speeches and given elemental powers to kill legion remnants after we passed the "test".

    There is no way such clowns would be able to bring an end of times.
    You can swap in the Fourth War if you like, basic arc of descent remains unchanged.

    A world controlled by cultists "trained in pre-school trivia questions and running away" wouldn't be so great, either; in addition to the endless sacrifices, insanity, and Void-worship. Our characters wouldn't be around in such a world either, as they'd either be insane or written out of existence by the new Black Empire paradigm. You can't fight a regime from within when the regime in question can reformat reality to its own whims. You either die, get blinked out of existence, or rewritten to serve the head honcho of the new reality.

    N'Zoth nearly won, too. It was mere luck that we caught his efforts in time to stymie his goals. With the Horde and Alliance at one another's throats and preoccupied with pointless conflict he was pretty much cruising to victory. Had his people in place and everything, and had even started the process of merging the realities underneath our feet. The "clowns" in this story were the Horde and Alliance, and to a slightly lesser extent the Champion and defenders of Azeroth, the few of them that there were.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    And that's what I mean when I say that the messaging is naively optimistic. Within the boundaries of the Warcraft universe, the only pragmatic and rational course of action is offered by the naive, optimistic, idealistic characters that want to befriend their enemy, hoping that they secretly want to do the same thing even though they're pretty much always waging war. It never really backfires and they pretty much always get proven right by the outcome of these stories.
    Except, to my knowledge, they've never been "proven right" by any of the outcomes, and conflict is always reignited (usually by an outside force angling to benefit from said conflict). This is a cycle that been repeated many times in the Warcraft universe, from the Legion precipitating the conflict in WC1 through WC3, then the Twilight's Hammer egging on the conflict with Garrosh (e.g. the events in Ashenvale that truly brought the conflict to a head). Sylvanas and the Jailer doing so later on in the War of Thorns and the Blood War, again for their own purposes, etc. etc. "Let's you and him fight" is the mainstay tactic for ensuring the Horde and Alliance never do cement a true peace between themselves within the narrative itself.

    But in a universe of horrors and greater scope villains like the Legion, the Void, and possibly even the Light itself, achieving said peace is pretty far from "naively optimistic." It is, bar none, the best way for Azeroth to survive in the universe it finds itself in. What both factions need to actually do is stop being gulled so easily into fighting (the Horde probably more than the Alliance, but both sides are culpable enough).
    Last edited by Aucald; 2020-03-19 at 05:52 PM.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Except, to my knowledge, they've never been "proven right" by any of the outcomes, and conflict is always reignited (usually by an outside force angling to benefit from said conflict). This is a cycle that been repeated many times in the Warcraft universe, from the Legion precipitating the conflict in WC1 through WC3, then the Twilight's Hammer egging on the conflict with Garrosh (e.g. the events in Ashenvale that truly brought the conflict to a head). Sylvanas and the Jailer doing so later on in the War of Thorns and the Blood War, again for their own purposes, etc. etc. "Let's you and him fight" is the mainstay tactic for ensuring the Horde and Alliance never do cement a true peace between themselves within the narrative itself.

    But in a universe of horrors and greater scope villains like the Legion, the Void, and possibly even the Light itself, achieving said peace is pretty far from "naively optimistic." It is, bar none, the best way for Azeroth to survive in the universe it finds itself in. What both factions need to actually do is stop being gulled so easily into fighting (the Horde probably more than the Alliance, but both sides are culpable enough).
    Yes, as you said the conflict is usually reignited by an outside force but the messaging remains that both Horde and Alliance are ultimately good people that know what's right and what's wrong and only get lured into war by evil outside forces. Settling for white peace, letting your enemy regather their forces only for them to attack you again because you think "maybe they're honorable this time" is naively optimistic. Do you think that the Alliance wouldn't have been able to deal with the Legion if they had killed Garrosh, subjugated the Horde or dismantled it into smaller factions (maybe welcoming the Blood Elves back into the Alliance over time) and thereby gaining Wrathion's support (which would have prevented the whole Iron Horde thing)?
    Of course they can't do that because of the confines that are imposed on the narrative by the nature of how WoW works so we're left with basically the same outcome after every conflict with a few lost territories here and there.

    My main issue with this is that it's just not believable. The WoW Horde is still the successor of a faction of invaders that carved a bloody path through Alliance lands (and it's not ancient history) and they still seem to follow in the tradition of the original Horde in many regards and fight the Alliance at every chance they can get. The Alliance has very little reason to see them as anything else than bloodthirsty animals and still they do absolutely nothing to alleviate the threat because in their heart of hearts they know that they're also just good people trying to make their way in the universe. Even characters like Tyrande and Genn who don't hold the same optimistic views as e.g. Anduin seem largely concerned with individual bad actors like Sylvanas rather than the Horde itself.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Danuser!? I've been spelling it Dausner this whole time!!
    Ive been spelling it Cocksucker this whole time, my bad too.

  20. #300
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    When did they say she was not evil like Garrosh?
    Blizz flat out said she is MORALLY GREY prior to showing that she just flat out burned the civilian night elves women and children alive because someone burned her in a talk, so she burned her alive, with her entire race
    That part of MORALLY GREY specially i remember clearly because I really didn't want to be the evil faction again, and blizz ensured us we won't
    I don't even remember they defended their statement of MORALLY GREY, they flat out lied to us, the source for it was a blizz post, mostly twitter of some employee

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    But in a universe of horrors and greater scope villains like the Legion, the Void, and possibly even the Light itself, achieving said peace is pretty far from "naively optimistic." It is, bar none, the best way for Azeroth to survive in the universe it finds itself in. What both factions need to actually do is stop being gulled so easily into fighting (the Horde probably more than the Alliance, but both sides are culpable enough).
    the problem is what blizz want to do
    Blizz went out of their way to confirm to us in Warcrimes book that Garrosh while started popular, lost his popularity pretty fast, and even Thrall's orcs hated him, he only had support of the old horde, a faction that was flat out hostile to Thrall's orc prior to his recruitment (and accepting him show he is exact opposite of our horde), and while Tides of War showed that even most peaceful horde races lose themselves in bloodlust in war during theramore war, most of them regret and flat out hated the cowardly bomb action of Garrosh, the start of his reputation hatred
    Then BFA comes and sh8t on all of that for absolutely no reason, show us that ppl who would never start a war like Saurfang actually start it? Horde are happily supporting the most hated warchief!? And known heroes whom some of them were flat out neutral helping Sylvanas killing alliance!?
    What the F*CK?
    BFA sh8t on ~ everything established in lore, the conflict is extremely shoved in our throats that it chocked us alliance and horde, and while some ppl did follow sylvanas for many reasons (the most important is '2' reasons we all know) still most wow players hated MoP 2.0

    Everyone who has a brain cell know that we can easily keep the 'war' in 'warcraft' without the need to be red vs blue, we have many established factions that we know will never accept peace, and - no surprise really - the 'pvp focus' of BFA ends shifting to old gods, and in worst way possible, in exp that its highlight is amazing cinematics, we end vs Nzoth - the most active important old god - in a very generic cinematic with dbz scene

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    My main issue with this is that it's just not believable. The WoW Horde is still the successor of a faction of invaders that carved a bloody path through Alliance lands
    Alliance literally took all their lands by genocide against Trolls, if u want to use that card against horde it will backfire very hard against alliance, even nelf started by killing any nearby troll
    Heck if it wasn't for draenei living for 250 (or was it 150?) years on dreanor without even warning orcs of confirmed doom following them, orcs wouldn't been f8cked by legion and wouldn't been forced to invade azeroth
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

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