New interview with Steve Danuser about BfA

[Mehrunes]

Negative $50 plus whatever a year and a half's sub cost is. Mostly I just listen to Taliesin's story breakdowns and gain a much deeper appreciation for the story that way. Doesn't mean I have no criticisms, like the story being about 80% focused on the Horde all expansion. Lots of plot threads left dangling that I just have to shrug and hope they address in Shadowlands, particularly Tyrande and the night elves. The single dumbest story moment in Warcraft history with my horde pandaren handing Sylvanas an evil old god artifact.

You'll note none of that overlaps with my compliments towards the Jaina and Thrall arcs. A story can have good and bad parts. Another example of "writing new stuff to make it seem like this was the grand plan all along" was WOD's followup with the mag'har scenario, which managed to remove the time travel element, kill Grom, make Yrel interesting, and give us a playable race with great customization options in a matter of minutes. Pure brilliance. All of that was technically part of BFA.

You mean Taliesin, the self-admitted Blizzard shill? Yeah, there's so much depth to be had in his videos. So much value in his conclusions that this story is the pinnacle of storytelling.

[Ardenaso]

The plot elements are dark (extermination of entire races, endless wars of attrition, end of the world etc.) but the actual messaging is naively optimistic. It's a very strange mismatch.

don't forget the eventual demise of the "pitiful" such as Theramore citizens being turned into target practices; Human Refugees being wiped out in Southshore, Hillsbrad, and Fenris Isle, and the last Dark Trolls murdered by the Alliance

[Nerovar]

I don't think a Sylvanas redemption is off the table, per se; but I do think there is an upper bound to the resolution I'd accept. The best Sylvanas can hope for as concerns redemption is a "redemption equals death" scenario, where she becomes cognizant of where she screwed up and sacrifices herself to put an end to it - I could accept such an ending for Sylvanas if it's told well, and as long as that occurs without anyone eulogizing Sylvanas as "a hero all along" or some crap like that.

My personal preference, however, is for Sylvanas to be killed as a villain with no redemption in sight. I personally think she's strayed too far into abject villainy at this point to be worth redemption - as for her popularity, let her die in a manner that befits it. My current most desirable end for Sylvanas is a rematch between her and an empowered Bolvar, and having his hammer crush her skull decisively somewhere around the apex of the Shadowlands story-arc.

Am I the only one who kinda unironically wants to see her die to an Arthas Deus Ex Machina?

[Aucald]

Am I the only one who kinda unironically wants to see her die to an Arthas Deus Ex Machina?

I wouldn't be opposed to an Arthas vs. Sylvanas match-up myself, but I think Bolvar deserves the first swing just due to the Shadowlands opening cinematic where she defeats him with the Jailer's apparent assistance. I'd very much like to see a more honest duel between those two, and for Sylvanas to subsequently be broken by the Scourgehammer of Bolvar. That's just me, though.

[Varodoc]

Am I the only one who kinda unironically wants to see her die to an Arthas Deus Ex Machina?

You're not the only one. I think it'd be ironic and poetic justice if Arthas redeemed himself by killing her and restoring balance to the Shadowlands. Sylvanas dying again at Arthas' hand, but with him getting praised this time, would be hilarious.

Hey, I'd love to see the reaction of her fanboys if that happened.

[Nerovar]

I wouldn't be opposed to an Arthas vs. Sylvanas match-up myself, but I think Bolvar deserves the first swing just due to the Shadowlands opening cinematic where she defeats him with the Jailer's apparent assistance. I'd very much like to see a more honest duel between those two, and for Sylvanas to subsequently be broken by the Scourgehammer of Bolvar. That's just me, though.

I could imagine a fight between Bolvar in which she loses and just when she's about to use her death powers like she did during the Saurfang fight, she gets dragged into the abyss by Arthas, Garithos, Balnazzar and other villainous folks.

[DemonHunter18]

I wouldn't be opposed to an Arthas vs. Sylvanas match-up myself, but I think Bolvar deserves the first swing just due to the Shadowlands opening cinematic where she defeats him with the Jailer's apparent assistance. I'd very much like to see a more honest duel between those two, and for Sylvanas to subsequently be broken by the Scourgehammer of Bolvar. That's just me, though.

You're not the only one. I think it'd be ironic and poetic justice if Arthas redeemed himself by killing her and restoring balance to the Shadowlands. Sylvanas dying again at Arthas' hand, but with him getting praised this time, would be hilarious.

Hey, I'd love to see the reaction of her fanboys if that happened.

I could imagine a fight between Bolvar in which she loses and just when she's about to use her death powers like she did during the Saurfang fight, she gets dragged into the abyss by Arthas, Garithos, Balnazzar and other villainous folks.

anyone read Akame Ga Kill???

she should get the same treatment Minister got but in this case, eternally.

[Combatbutler]

I wouldn't be opposed to an Arthas vs. Sylvanas match-up myself, but I think Bolvar deserves the first swing just due to the Shadowlands opening cinematic where she defeats him with the Jailer's apparent assistance. I'd very much like to see a more honest duel between those two, and for Sylvanas to subsequently be broken by the Scourgehammer of Bolvar. That's just me, though.

I'd rather not see the screecher or walking coal man at all, but alas it is likely we will see their ugly mugs left right and center through the xpack. Bolvar, Arthas, Sylvanas are characters I really don't want to see at all, in fact I would love if the entire overmind for poor people, alias the lich king nonsense finally dies for good.

[Syegfryed]

I'd rather not see the screecher or walking coal man at all, but alas it is likely we will see their ugly mugs left right and center through the xpack. Bolvar, Arthas, Sylvanas are characters I really don't want to see at all, in fact I would love if the entire overmind for poor people, alias the lich king nonsense finally dies for good.

it would be very poetic to bolvar just burn her to cinder, i would not mind the KS at all

[Combatbutler]

it would be very poetic to bolvar just burn her to cinder, i would not mind the KS at all

You know who I'd like to see die the list is rather long

Turalyon
Alleria
Sylvanas
Vereesa
Illidan
Malfurion
Tyrande
Baine
Anduin
Khadgar
Magni
Arator
Liadrin
Thrall
Zekhan
Jaina
Bolvar
Nathanos
Darion Mograine
Koltira
Valeera
Brann Bronzebeard
Aethas Sunreaver
Calia Menethil
Lillian
Velen
Gallywix

[DemonHunter18]

You know who I'd like to see die the list is rather long

Turalyon
Alleria
Sylvanas
Vereesa
Illidan
Malfurion
Tyrande
Baine
Anduin
Khadgar
Magni
Arator
Liadrin
Thrall
Zekhan
Jaina
Bolvar
Nathanos
Darion Mograine
Koltira
Valeera
Brann Bronzebeard
Aethas Sunreaver
Calia Menethil
Lillian
Velen
Gallywix

so 95% of WoW xd

[Combatbutler]

so 95% of WoW xd

Well I don't have single wow character I like, they are after all very shallow, so it is either neutral or dislike and blizz tends to write characters in such a way that they just grate on my nerves over time. So those with less spotlight are usually the more tolerable and some are just plain trainwrecks from the get go.

[LemonDemonGirl]

anyone read Akame Ga Kill???

she should get the same treatment Minister got but in this case, eternally.

Or she could get Diavolo's punishment in JJBA: Vento Auero and keep dying over and over eternally

so 95% of WoW xd

I'm glad Bwonsamdi isn't one of them lol

[Nerovar]

I'd rather not see the screecher or walking coal man at all, but alas it is likely we will see their ugly mugs left right and center through the xpack. Bolvar, Arthas, Sylvanas are characters I really don't want to see at all, in fact I would love if the entire overmind for poor people, alias the lich king nonsense finally dies for good.

I mean, let's be real here. Bolvar is going to be the Magni/Khadgar of this expansion.

[bowlink]

Steve Danuser really is the Matt Ward of wow. and for the record that is not a compliment

[Syegfryed]

You know who I'd like to see die the list is rather long

Turalyon
Alleria
Sylvanas
Vereesa
Illidan
Malfurion
Tyrande
Baine
Anduin
Khadgar
Magni
Arator
Liadrin
Thrall
Zekhan
Jaina
Bolvar
Nathanos
Darion Mograine
Koltira
Valeera
Brann Bronzebeard
Aethas Sunreaver
Calia Menethil
Lillian
Velen
Gallywix

none of then are the main villains of the expansion tough, most of those have plot armor by being alliance, so tis not gonna happen

[sam86]

I am optimistic that it will, and I've found that WoW tends to follow a general pattern of "hit, miss, hit, miss" as concerns expansions - Legion was a high note for me, as was MoP, and each of those were followed by lackluster expansions in their turn (BfA and WoD respectively). Nothing wrong with constructive criticism, either; I think it's always good to address where a game falls short and try to find ways to improve it even in the general sense (without directly addressing said concerns to the developers). Some people have come to a place where there can be no right by WoW, though; and they more or less revel in mining salt for its own sake, content for the entire game to burn. I am not nor do I want to be in that camp, myself, and like you I want WoW to improve and rise up from the low point it's found itself in BfA.

bfa still puzzle me, it is a watered down version of Legion
the very easy question that i was sure was a 'bug' only to discover it isn't, azerite armor
i was expecting that the armor is different depend on spec, not same traits for all specs, i even made a ticket and asked my rl friend about it, only for him to tell me that they didn't do that this exp (what?)
ehm what? we literally just had in Legion u can change ur traits depend on ur spec, why remove that in BFA ?

- - - Updated - - -

it would be very poetic to bolvar just burn her to cinder, i would not mind the KS at all

yeah...
The Lich King should always be the biggest badass, not a p8ssy that was shown
Maybe it was fake hope, or idiocy, but when i saw Sylvanas marching towards him i was expecting she will win barely or even lose, not wtf stomp him that hard to disgraceful level
This is like how in MCU they introduce Thanos right click Hulk, even if - as shown later - Thanos isn't that massively OP as he can't even fight Thor with his axe, heck Cap managed to hold his hands, and cap is nothing in compare to Hulk power

[Aucald]

bfa still puzzle me, it is a watered down version of Legion
the very easy question that i was sure was a 'bug' only to discover it isn't, azerite armor
i was expecting that the armor is different depend on spec, not same traits for all specs, i even made a ticket and asked my rl friend about it, only for him to tell me that they didn't do that this exp (what?)
ehm what? we literally just had in Legion u can change ur traits depend on ur spec, why remove that in BFA ?

In terms of gameplay elements, I would say you're right - in terms of narrative and lore, I'd say BfA was considerably underwhelming next to Legion's standards. The big failing of BfA's gimmick was initial Azerite Traits, I'd agree; they were both underwhelming and excessively bland compared to the Artifact Weapon system (which had the dual benefit of being chock full of lore connected both to the current expansion and WoW as a whole).

Azerite Traits struck me as Draenor Perks v2.0 from WoD - random and meaningless buffs that had no connection to the story, and didn't feel immersive at all. Essences at least felt like they had some connection to the story, especially in conjunction with the Dragonflight questlines introducing them.

[allawyn]

Yes, they certainly have. Especially since there's a search function.

1) I'm not obligated to quote every word or reply to every word.

Besides, since everyone can see what you've posted, then it shouldn't matter if I only reply to specific quotes. Or are you now saying people can't see what you've posted? Since I don't have access to delete anything, and since quotes include a link back to the original post, that rather rules out me trying to misrepresent you, or whatever bizarre charges you're making. Really, this makes no sense whatsoever... unless of course you effectively have no argument, know full well your post history supports me on your "Horde player feelings", and are trying to drop it while getting the last word.

2) Words in your mouth, that's funny. You've previously spent an entire thread on that "telling Hordies how to feel" crap, and pretending that's not your argument again isn't going to work. Your first post in this was saying "I've said this before" for crying out loud.

[quote]

You aren't obligated to do anything. But when you do things like cut out the part of the quote where I say I have "sympathy that Alliance players didn't like what they got either" and "I've read some good posts form Alliance players who recognize things that have sucked for both sides", so you can type "Stop blaming the Alliance playerbase" and "so kindly stop telling me I should enjoy my situation". Well, it doesn't come off as someone who is trying to have a useful discussion.

But the attacks, unsupported assertions, mis-characterizations, etc. are growing tiresome. But don't let me tell you want to do, keep them up if you think they will help.

[Syegfryed]

yeah...
The Lich King should always be the biggest badass, not a p8ssy that was shown
Maybe it was fake hope, or idiocy, but when i saw Sylvanas marching towards him i was expecting she will win barely or even lose, not wtf stomp him that hard to disgraceful level
This is like how in MCU they introduce Thanos right click Hulk, even if - as shown later - Thanos isn't that massively OP as he can't even fight Thor with his axe, heck Cap managed to hold his hands, and cap is nothing in compare to Hulk power

that cinematic is by far one of the worst lore moments of this franchise hands down, pure for chock and rule of cool, cause apparently they don't know how to do anything else, it baffles me how the lore team still have their jobs after bfa or a free pass to do another expansion and maybe even the one after shadowlands