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  1. #1

    New interview with Steve Danuser about BfA

    https://www.windowscentral.com/world...ry-shadowlands
    The highlights:

    1. N'Zoth is defeated... or not?
    While the Light can only conceive of one true path, the Void sees endless possibilities. Strategically, the Old Gods always have plans within plans, waiting for one door to close so another can open. To believe there can only be a single outcome to the struggle against N'Zoth would be to ignore the lessons he was trying to teach us.
    2. Sylvanas was supposed to be a repeat of Garrosh... with certain nuances.
    One of the major themes in this expansion was expressed by Sylvanas in the opening words of the Battle for Azeroth trailer: "Ours is a cycle of hatred." To demonstrate that there is a cycle, we created a story structure for Sylvanas that, on the surface, echoed many broad strokes of the road Garrosh took. A warchief promoted under questionable circumstances. A brutal act of aggression that instigated conflict. Distrust among the inner circle that led to an uprising. These parallels were intentional. But it's within the nuance that we sought to show the story grow and change.
    3. Danuser is proud of Blizzard's storytelling in BfA.
    We're proud of our storytelling in Battle for Azeroth, but by no means do we think our work is flawless or that there weren't aspects of that narrative we could have done better. The nature of what we do is very iterative, so the good news is that we have the opportunity to learn lessons that we can carry forward. We always strive to improve.

  2. #2
    Lol, really, ignorant as ever.

    And he kind of admitted they straight up lied to the fans when saying Sylvanas won't be Garrosh 2.0. - No instead she's a Garrosh 2.0 with nuances... with a shade of purple maybe?

    These old white men at Blizzard are just complacent dickheads. If they haven't learned how to make a good expac or tell a good story by now, they most likely never will.

  3. #3
    No one working at an enterprise will ever come out and say ''yeah, this thing I did - it blew donkey kong''.

    Not many solo, independent artists have the courage and self-reflection to do that. So you can't expect honesty from him.

  4. #4
    Well, he speaks as a representative of Blizzard, not as a private person. But to be honest I'm sick and tired of them saying "Yeah, we learned a lot from that,..." bla bla. They were saying that in WoD already, look where it got us. Downwards. What the heck. Seems like everyone at the WoW devs office is still in the I'm only the intern-phase of employment, even after 12 years working as a dev... holy shit.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    Lol, really, ignorant as ever.

    And he kind of admitted they straight up lied to the fans when saying Sylvanas won't be Garrosh 2.0. - No instead she's a Garrosh 2.0 with nuances... with a shade of purple maybe?

    These old white men at Blizzard are just complacent dickheads. If they haven't learned how to make a good expac or tell a good story by now, they most likely never will.
    Less faction wars and more fucking planets with big ass swords then?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    Lol, really, ignorant as ever.

    And he kind of admitted they straight up lied to the fans when saying Sylvanas won't be Garrosh 2.0. - No instead she's a Garrosh 2.0 with nuances... with a shade of purple maybe?

    These old white men at Blizzard are just complacent dickheads. If they haven't learned how to make a good expac or tell a good story by now, they most likely never will.
    She wasn't Garrosh 2.0.

    Because when people were showing concerns of that, the repeated issue was "Another raid to kill another warchief". Over and over again, this idea was presented and hated that we would end the expansion with Sylvanas as the final boss.

    And she wasn't.

    Although really unsure why you think race has anything to do with this. If they never knew how to make a "good expansion" or "tell a good story", dunno why you'd be invested in it in the first place.

  7. #7
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    "Within the nuance" Okay, what the fuck is he snorting every morning and where can my dealer get his hands on some? BFA was about as nuanced as a golf club to the testicles/ovaries. The idea that this story has any nuance is hilarious.

    Also, of course they're proud of the story they told. They got to spend two years indulging in the same tired 90s Dark Age tropes, right down to the pouty, large-breasted bad girl posing and monologing her way through the story while killing everything in her path without so much as a genuine challenge. This shit makes Darkchylde, Requiem, and Lady Death all look deep and complex by comparison.

    Fuck off with this silly shit, Danuser.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  8. #8
    His answers are what derangement looks like.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  9. #9
    Nice to see that Blizzard inclusivity also embraces the braindamaged.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Less faction wars and more fucking planets with big ass swords then?
    Yes please!
    - I will never be the Legion's pawn. And this tower will not be its den!

    Best Mage ever lived!

  11. #11
    One of the major themes in this expansion was expressed by Sylvanas in the opening words of the Battle for Azeroth trailer: "Ours is a cycle of hatred." To demonstrate that there is a cycle, we created a story structure for Sylvanas that, on the surface, echoed many broad strokes of the road Garrosh took. A warchief promoted under questionable circumstances. A brutal act of aggression that instigated conflict. Distrust among the inner circle that led to an uprising. These parallels were intentional. But it's within the nuance that we sought to show the story grow and change.

    The Horde believed that, by putting the wise Vol'jin in place as warchief, their future was secure. But they hadn't changed the underlying structures or practices that enabled Garrosh's tyranny in the first place. The untimely passing of Vol'jin and a bit of manipulation in the aftermath of his death were all it took for the pattern to begin repeating.
    Usually, when you create parallels between two story lines, or when you employ a well known cliche in a story that is supposed to be good, you do it in order to make some sort of commentary, or to set up expectations that you will later subvert (something author George R.R. Martin does very effectively in his books).

    Their reason for making the story similar was... to demonstrate that there is a cycle? What does the cycle mean? Why does it exist? Does it have a point? Does it have a root cause? How does the existence of a cycle serve the narrative or player experience? If we take a step out of the story and into the creative process, it just sounds circular as fuck. A better question would be: Would players actually enjoy a cyclical story that repeats the same beats with different "nuances" every few expansions? Because I'm pretty sure the answer is no, so maybe you shouldn't fucking do it!

    The story does nothing to explore the position of Warchief and its role in the Horde with any sort of depth. It especially does nothing to explore why we have to assume that nothing has changed since Garrosh's time, after the Horde races have proven that they are willing and able to depose a Warchief that doesn't have their collective best interest in mind. Is this like... an invitations to analyze this form of government through a real world lens (even though the game itself doesn't do it, and a fantasy MMORPG isn't really the place to dissect politics)? Because if we're gonna get technical, many of the criticisms that can be raised against a Warchief can be raised against monarchy as well... Why not have an Alliance King or Queen be incompetent, warmongering or tyrannical, and explore what effects that has over the state they lead? Are we going to have an expansion where Anduin is guillotined and Stormwind becomes a republic? Are we going to have democracy, with voting booths for the players?

    And what manipulation in the aftermath of Vol'jin's death is he talking about? If anything, he was manipulated before he died, although the cinematic in question did not suggest anything like that at all, making me think they were either full on deceiving the players or (more likely) had no idea they would later retcon Vol'jin into being wrong.

    And if the "cycle" brought up by Sylvanas in the BFA trailer is supposed to be the Warchief cycle she herself is a part of, why does she even say it? Is she that self aware? It doesn't make any sense, she doesn't sound happy about it at all (even though she should, given her newly revealed motives of killing as many people as possible). And what do the rest of her lines mean? "Alliances forged and broken", "We have paid the price for sharing this world"? They don't seem to gel very well with what he said about the cycle and the nuances and the stuff...
    Last edited by Coconut; 2020-03-14 at 10:08 PM.

  12. #12
    BFA is competing with GoT season 8 for the worst story trophy, still deciding who to give it to.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    BFA is competing with GoT season 8 for the worst story trophy, still deciding who to give it to.
    Not even comparable. GoT had the biggest character assassination in history (Daenerys). Nothing in Warcraft comes close to that.

    Well... maybe Kael, who could've been a very good tragic villain... but they're bringing him back in Shadowlands anyway.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-03-14 at 09:41 PM.
    We each walk a line. Choose yours.

  14. #14
    High Overlord Yuli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    Lol, really, ignorant as ever.

    And he kind of admitted they straight up lied to the fans when saying Sylvanas won't be Garrosh 2.0. - No instead she's a Garrosh 2.0 with nuances... with a shade of purple maybe?
    She wasn't Garrosh 2.0 - Her arc has a lot more complex strings than Garrosh had. He was only there to be a warchief. A character like Garrosh is a permanent problem for faction unity. Sylvanas is, too. But they chose a more creative and versatile approach with her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    But to be honest I'm sick and tired of them saying "Yeah, we learned a lot from that,..." bla bla. They were saying that in WoD already, look where it got us. Downwards. What the heck.
    Imagine comparing WoD to BfA.
    Last edited by Yuli; 2020-03-14 at 09:42 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Not even comparable.
    That is true, but only because a game's story is never going to be held up to the same standards as a serialized adaptation of one of the best fantasy series so far, which had also set its own expectations for quality due to the excellent early seasons.

    However, you should probably remove the spoilers in your comment. There may still be someone out there who wants to see that shit and doesn't know how it ends.

  16. #16
    he needs to send a press release to all the south african druglords. he's clearly discovered some new, more powerful form of jenkem from sniffing his own farts all day every day.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Coconut View Post
    That is true, but only because a game's story is never going to be held up to the same standards as a serialized adaptation of one of the best fantasy series so far, which had also set its own expectations for quality due to the excellent early seasons.

    However, you should probably remove the spoilers in your comment. There may still be someone out there who wants to see that shit and doesn't know how it ends.
    Right, thanks for the heads-up.
    We each walk a line. Choose yours.

  18. #18
    Well subvverting expectations ends up becoming the norm to the point where the concept of 'honour' within the horde is meaningless.

    Consider that every Mak'gora we've seen in World of Warcraft involved rules being broken, or blatant cheating. We have nwver had a legitimate, honourable mak'gora.

  19. #19
    I had this whole wall of text in mind about how there's neither nuance nor exploration of the Warchief seat or the Horde as well as how Sylvanas being motivated by completely unconnected bullshit means that by default it is neither about the structural issues of the Horde nor about the cycle of hatred since she is affected by neither, but @Coconut already said everything and saved me the time. Great post and cheers. Also Danuser is a hack.
    Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Less faction wars and more fucking planets with big ass swords then?
    Yes, this is all I want.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

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