Ok, Hazzikostas, listen..

[Miross]

Yes, because "everything is bad and is always bad and Blizzard never listens and Blizzard sucks and also Blizzard sucks Blizzard sucks HEY GUYS BLIZZARD FUCKING SUCKS" is such a completely original and compelling take.

i like that straw man of yours , and how you are completely distorcing what i said , keep it up buddy

[Relapses]

i like that straw man of yours , and how you are completely distorcing what i said , keep it up buddy

Labeling people who dare enjoy the fucking game "fanboys who don't know what a REAL MMO is" is hardly a compelling argument. Sorry I took it to its natural conclusion: Pointless cynicism.

[Ragedaug]

Yes, because "everything is bad and is always bad and Blizzard never listens and Blizzard sucks and also Blizzard sucks Blizzard sucks HEY GUYS BLIZZARD FUCKING SUCKS" is such a completely original and compelling take.

The funny part was the dude you responded to said, "if you try to give any construct criticism , you are called a hater/lazy etc", then you immediately proved he was right.

Good team work!

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Playing the content to unlock more content? What do you think this is, an infinitely-repeatable MMO or something?

Yep, then after it's unlocked, play the content you don't like again to re-unlock that content you do want to do...then play the content you don't like again to re-unlock that content you do want to do...then play the content you don't like again to re-unlock that content you do want to do...then play the content you don't like again to re-unlock that content you do want to do...then play the content you don't like again to re-unlock that content you do want to do...

Sounds like folks are saying you have to be a masochist to play WoW. So yeah, I'm hearing, "this is what an MMORPG is! Life sucks and your game should too!". Go for it. I'll find something else to play.

[crakerjack]

Honestly, they really do need to make this game more alt friendly. Ever since they wanted to start this allied race train back in Legion, they should have had more focus on alts. I only had 6 max level characters back in Legion, but near the end, going into BFA, I leveled a few more due to allied races and now I currently have all classes at max level, making 12 chars. With every character, I expect to have to grind gear and that should be my main source of growth in power. Unfortunately, my alts are gimped due to lacking r3 essences and blizzard answer to making them account-wide is to apply some currency system.

There's not one single rational argument as to why they couldn't make r3 essences account wide if you already earned them on another character. While I will admit them adding a currency system in place compared to the timegated original methods of obtaining essences is better, it still falls short because you're asking the player to do content they'd already be doing with r3 essences, but with r1/r2 for the time being. The only reason out there as to why they don't make essences account wide with zero conditions is because they want to maintain MAU's and they fear if everyone had access to r3 essences on their alts, people would play less.

[Trend]

The funny part was the dude you responded to said, "if you try to give any construct criticism , you are called a hater/lazy etc", then you immediately proved he was right.

Good team work!

You totally suck at reading. LOL

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There's not one single rational argument as to why they couldn't make r3 essences account wide if you already earned them on another character.

I think you're confusing the rational with what you are disposed to agree with. The blue post gives the rational reason. You not agreeing with the reason is fine, of course, but it is a rational argument they make.

[Relapses]

The funny part was the dude you responded to said, "if you try to give any construct criticism , you are called a hater/lazy etc", then you immediately proved he was right.

Good team work!

Is this where you pretend to be a bastion of objectivity when the dude was obviously completely disinterested in anything other than empty recognition that he was "right" about Azerite gear being dogshit? Okay. Cool: Azerite gear is dogshit AND BLIZZARD SUCKS FOR MAKING IT!!!

Whoops, ignore that last part. Sorry, I get carried away at this.

[Ragedaug]

Is this where you pretend to be a bastion of objectivity when the dude was obviously completely disinterested in anything other than empty recognition that he was "right" about Azerite gear being dogshit? Okay. Cool: Azerite gear is dogshit AND BLIZZARD SUCKS FOR MAKING IT!!!

Whoops, ignore that last part. Sorry, I get carried away at this.

He seemed to make a fairly rational point, and I've seen the same. Try to lay out my constructive criticism logically and reasonably, only to get met with replies out "you are lazy" and "just quit then", etc. So yeah, your response seemed a bit melodramatic to him making that point =) ...and seemed to bolster his point.

[Benitora]

I just hope they won't make anything like essences again in Shadowlands. If they do, at least create a faster way for your alts to unlock them.
It should be bring the player, not the class or toon.

Basically, I think they should add a achievement based system on how to make it easier to get these "essences" for your alts. Make the requirment to get the achievment to get em to rank 3, and with that achievement, it will decrease the amount of grind you need to do by 50%. You have already gotten the companions in Nazjatar to 3000 rep on your main, so getting to get that over with twice as fast will feel better.

And with the achievements, if you hit exalted with your main with a faction, allow alts to buy the gear which is usually outdated by the time of the first raid by just having the achievement. If that's not good enough, bring back the Pandaria method of where your rep gains where increased if you already had someone exalted with a faction.

I just think that your time as a player should be respected more than your time as a toon in the game.

[Trend]

He seemed to make a fairly rational point, and I've seen the same. Try to lay out my constructive criticism logically and reasonably, only to get met with replies out "you are lazy" and "just quit then", etc. So yeah, your response seemed a bit melodramatic to him making that point =) ...and seemed to bolster his point.

He threw out the typical fanboy insult to shut down anyone who would disagree with him.

As I said already, you totally suck at reading.

[Relapses]

He seemed to make a fairly rational point, and I've seen the same. Try to lay out my constructive criticism logically and reasonably, only to get met with replies out "you are lazy" and "just quit then", etc. So yeah, your response seemed a bit melodramatic to him making that point =) ...and seemed to bolster his point.

Are we really at a point where somebody who calls anybody with even a smidgen of critical thinking skills a "Blizzard fanboy" is a paragon of rationality? Oy.

[crakerjack]

You totally suck at reading. LOL

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I think you're confusing the rational with what you are disposed to agree with. The blue post gives the rational reason. You not agreeing with the reason is fine, of course, but it is a rational argument they make.

Oh, so you think "Thus, every reward that’s account-wide becomes one fewer goal to strive for on alts." is a rational argument? That's their "excuse" for why it's not account wide with zero conditions. Please, they just want more people to play. Honestly, how would it hurt the game or any experience for you if others had access to r3 essences assuming they collected them on another character? If anything the average player would play better because they're not stuck using default r1 essences unlocked through the questline.

So yes, there isn't one single rational argument given as to why r3 essences aren't account wide with zero restrictions. They even contradict themselves with "While we still firmly believe that each character should have a progression arc of power gains, the player behind those characters understandably may not want to repeat the exact same arc multiple times when they feel they have exhausted the variety or rewards an activity might hold." So technically the only thing they justified was that they refuse to give players account wide r3 essences without forcing the player to grind in some way. "Oh you want your r3 essences? What do you do in the game? Dungeons? Raids? WQ? Assaults? Ok, well how about you just play our game and we'll just eventually give you your r3 essences." It's absolutely pathetic behavior. We're talking about some bogus system that was only implemented to bail out their other failed azerite system.

Again this is better than what it was before, but if they were going to listen to the playerbase, then actually listen to them, don't try to weasel your own terms into it and say "Well why aren't you happy, we gave you what you want" when reality is they barely met half-way.

[Luxeley]

.. if you want to keep me as a player:

1.) Make Shadowlands alt friendly
2.) Do not hide Thorgast behind a grind
3.) Make reputations account based
4.) Add a ton of content instead of a a ton of time gates or effort gates
5.) Make LFR bearable, and not a wipe party
6.) Add back PVP vendors instead of bar filling games
7.) Remove Azerite Power / Anima Power / Artefact power / whatever power and do not replace it by a new label
8.) Remove Titanforging / Corruption / <new name for Shadowlands> and do not replace it by a new label
9.) Make pvp fair again
10.) Make my playtime worthwile, give me an ongoing character progression from accessible solo or group content

and

11.) Be less greedy, Ion, listen? LESS greedy. Let me play what i want to play, and do not try to force me into your wet dream of gameplay. I will NEVER join a premade group for raids or dungeons.

But as i know that you, Ion, would rather troll your customers than to listen to their feedback, it is very likely i will not going to play Shadowlands. As i know you and your alikes reactions to feedback already. You know, people asking you to remove Titanforging, and you adding Corruption. Or people telling you they like flying and you removing it. All those little meanies you thought would be funny.

1) I completely agree. BFA has been the worst xpac for alts.
2) Probably going to happen, dont get your hopes up.
3) Should've been done a long time ago.
4) Blizzard's been good with adding content since Legion. Gotta be fair.
5) ???
6) Blizzard knows this, they're not going to do it.
7) Not going to happen.
8) I'm up for something innovative, but we are not going to see innovation.
9) When was it ever fair in the 1st place?
10) Good bet it will happen.
11) Ion isn't the greedy one, Activision is.

[Wavebossa]

He seemed to make a fairly rational point, and I've seen the same. Try to lay out my constructive criticism logically and reasonably, only to get met with replies out "you are lazy" and "just quit then", etc. So yeah, your response seemed a bit melodramatic to him making that point =) ...and seemed to bolster his point.

You're wasting your breath with these guys. If anyone can't see how different having to farm daily assaults 3x per week just to do the visions just to do the content that you want (visions) vs a one time attunement.. then they will never get it.

However here is where I do disagree with you (or whoever originally said it), this has happened before, just last expansion.

Nethershards and Mage Tower was quite the same

[Relapses]

You're wasting your breath with these guys. If anyone can't see how different having to farm daily assaults 3x per week just to do the visions just to do the content that you want (visions) vs a one time attunement.. then they will never get it

Right, because only the truly enlightened can grasp the complex nature of Blizzard's fuck you systems.

I really don't give a shit. It's an improvement over what it was but there will always be people who think Blizzard didn't do enough. I expected nothing and got something. That's a step in the right direction. The days of Blizzard just giving you shit are done and over with. The sooner we, as a community, come to terms with this reality the easier it'll be for players to either move the fuck on from the game or accept the direction of the current development team.

[Insert somebody calling me a fanboy for just rolling over and accepting it instead of USING BIG ANGRY WORDS to describe my hatred of Blizzard and how REAL Blizzard fans wouldn't accept this.]

[Raisei]

Basically yes. it's not fun to do, and one chance at the Horrific Vision isn't quite compelling enough to make me put my traveling shoes on to head out and waste time killing a zillion blobs first.

What kept me in WoW previously was running dungeons for meaningful progress (rep/gear/attunments, etc), raiding with friends, and being able to pick up any of 10 alts on the server that were at max level to pug the final raid tier without having to grind the entire assault every week on all of them first so I could level each of their cloaks.

So basically with all that gone, there's nothing about killing a zillion things to get one shot at an instance that is compelling enough to keep my sub active.

1) As all the other haters you love to exaggerate what the objectives in the dailies are. They are not "kill a zillion blobs" but "kill 8", "click 5", "click 3". Very basical daily stuff that every blood MMO out there will ask of you in daily quests. This is the basis of repeatable content. If this repells you so I daresay you will not find an MMO you would play. Might as well stick to single players.

2) Again just like Gonfer you pretend the Dailies somehow stop you from doing Dungeons or Raids. They do not. The Cloak has nothing to do with your ability to enter the Raid or any Dungeon. You can enter them just fine and keep doing them without ever setting foot into Uldum or Vale (beyond aquiring the cloak, which I now fully assume is too much work already)

If you are presented with problems in this regard then they stem from the fact that because you are lazy in maxing out your characters power with Corruptions and people will notice how you fall behind the other people who have not been too lazy. In Pug groups especially you will likely be kicked but that is not the game's fault. You opt out of doing what could prevent it.
It is the exact same thing as going into a dungeon or raid undergeared. It is not the game's fault that you feel entitled to free power increases. The option to get better stuff is there, you just need to take it.

3) Having 10 alts and just pick one at random is not ever gonna result in any decent gameplay. No wonder you complain about dailies. I would go crazy. Any content with daily activities will becoma a chore if you so ridiculously overdo it. Again the problem is self-made. The game is not meant to be played with 10 characters at once. Pick a main, pick 1-2 alts and max those, if you cannot do that it is not Blizzard's fault.
They build the game with a focus on people playing one character as they should. If you want to play 10 characters then it is your decision of course and you are paying the cost for it in grinding hours.
Demanding that the game changes so that the people that stick to their mains have less to do every day just so you can keep up on your 10 alts is very selfish.

Are we really at a point where somebody who calls anybody with even a smidgen of critical thinking skills a "Blizzard fanboy" is a paragon of rationality? Oy.

Nah, we passed that point month ago

What I do not get is why these people cling to their hate so much. By their own words all of them have unsubbed a while ago. Why are they here, what are they waiting for?
Do they actually think their constant daily whining about having to do things in an MMO will move the Devs to remove any and all grinds? Or are they just here to infect other people with their hatred?

If you hate the game so much that all you can do is complain about any and all features of it, you should just go somewhere else.

[Reyuna]

Oh that there are still people that think Ion has complete control over things.

[iosdeveloper]

yeah, Hozzikostas!
quit fucking around and fix your shit man!

[jzhbee]

An effort gate is blizzards newest love child in 8.3. You know, when you have to play daily quests or scenarios first before you even are able to play horrific visions. The even greater part of an effort gate is, that you do not have to play it once (as like attunements), but over and over and over again. I am sure blizzards CFO got an orgsam when he heard about that tremendous idea first.

I am sure they will do more of that in shadowlands. Would not wonder if they add effort gates to dungeons and raids as well.

You want to kill "Gobble the horrible sea turtle" in a raid? Go and farm some dinosaurs first. Well, and collect some bear asses.

New to 8.3, I'm sure.

Not like entering Naxxramas in the original Vanilla WoW required either a) exalted with Argent Dawn or b)up to 1k Gold based on rep.

Is that not effort gated for you?

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You're intentionally misrepresenting the issue, here. First, because you do not need to do any daily to unlock your cloak. And second, because you clearly don't remember having to do dungeons over and over and over again just so you could do basically the exact same version of those dungeons... only the mobs have more health and deal more damage. That's it. Nothing new. No new mechanic to worry about, save "one and a half" exception.

And you clearly don't remember the annoyance that was the long quest chain to unlock Karazhan, and actually having to full clear Tempest Keep and Serpentshrine Cavern just so you could do Mt Hyjal, and don't even get me started on the Black Temple attunement.

That's not entirely true. You need to do the assaults in both Uldum and Vale, as well as doing the regular Vision once. All of which turn into dailies. So, they do indeed have to do a total of 3 dailies to get the cloak.

[Wavebossa]

Right, because only the truly enlightened can grasp the complex nature of Blizzard's fuck you systems.

I really don't give a shit. It's an improvement over what it was but there will always be people who think Blizzard didn't do enough. I expected nothing and got something. That's a step in the right direction. The days of Blizzard just giving you shit are done and over with. The sooner we, as a community, come to terms with this reality the easier it'll be for players to either move the fuck on from the game or accept the direction of the current development team.

[Insert somebody calling me a fanboy for just rolling over and accepting it instead of USING BIG ANGRY WORDS to describe my hatred of Blizzard and how REAL Blizzard fans wouldn't accept this.]

I didn't say it was worse, i didn't say it was better. I was saying the attunement comparison is a trash one.

Long attunement quest that are done once to grant access to content are very different than weekly currency that are done multiple times to grant a token to do content. If anyone cannot see the difference, its a waste of time to explain it.

If you want a better analog to requiring Assaults to farm a currency for content, look at Mage Tower.

If you liked Mage Tower being gated behind this, then that's fine, you would probably like this system as well.
If you did not like Mage Tower being gated and preferred when it was open (at the end of Legion), you probably wish the same for visions.

Its just that simple

[Druidzorz]

The biggest problem I'm having with the current game is corruption. My main doesn't get good corruption, so I'm falling behind everyone else in the guild. Guildies are 465 ilvl but because they have better corruption they can outdps me at 477 ilvl. That's my biggest gripe about how things are currently playing out