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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Buttwitch View Post
    Depression installs due to BOREDOM. Having everything handed to you, nothing to strive for, no conflict in your life, no reason to get out of bed.

    Usually people turn to drugs at this point. Hence why a lot of rich people and celebs are crackheads and alcoholics.

    Being rich is not a cause, of course, even poor people can find no reason to be invested in life.
    Been depressed my whole life I don't think it has anything to do with being affluent.

    I have also worked hard and do an amazing job with anything I do and have a lot to show for it.

    Try again.
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  2. #22
    Warchief RH92's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttwitch View Post
    Depression installs due to BOREDOM. Having everything handed to you, nothing to strive for, no conflict in your life, no reason to get out of bed.

    Usually people turn to drugs at this point. Hence why a lot of rich people and celebs are crackheads and alcoholics.

    Being rich is not a cause, of course, even poor people can find no reason to be invested in life.
    What a load of bullshit, you have no idea.

    A lot of people get depressed when they achieve a goal they worked hard for. I know it firsthand, you suddenly realize you idolized what it means to reach that goal and slip into the madness even deeper as you start noticing all the stuff you missed and sacrificed while working hard.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmouse View Post
    I support right to die: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1929387/ Terry Pratchett: Choosing to Die (2011)
    Big difference between right to die/death with dignity and regular suicide. Right to die is all about people who are going to die anyway, from a terminal illness, but are facing a long and painful death. Like my Aunt's brother (no blood relation) who died from a tumor eating his head, by the end he did nothing but cry and couldn't eat.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    It's sad and something you should be sympathetic with the family about, but that doesn't prevent it from being selfish. It's a permanent solution to a temporary problem
    It’s selfish to expect people to live for your benefit. For many people depression is a permanent problem.

  5. #25
    I am Murloc! shadowmouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onikroshi
    Big difference between right to die/death with dignity and regular suicide.
    No, there isn't. Right now very few places recognize such a difference, and when they do it is usually on their own terms -- it might be allowed *if* they decide you are screwed enough. Whether X group sees a person's selection to check out as legitimate, it should not be up to them.
    With COVID-19 making its impact on our lives, I have decided that I shall hang in there for my remaining days, skip some meals, try to get children to experiment with making henna patterns on their skin, and plant some trees. You know -- live, fast, dye young, and leave a pretty copse. I feel like I may not have that quite right.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    It’s selfish to expect people to live for your benefit. For many people depression is a permanent problem.
    Depression is a treatable and manageable disease. Often the things that end up leading to suicide are very temporary (a monetary issue, or a overblown worry, or something straight up delusional "no one loves me"). I have seen the effects of many suicides and the reasonings around them (grew up in an impoverished city with a very high suicide rate) not a single one was something that couldn't be fixed with help.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by AryuFate View Post
    During the MySpace emo days, my friends and I had good laughs about “idiots” who killed themselves. It’s a dick move to put your family through that. But some people are sympathetic when it comes to suicide. They want us to remember the victims like we remember the other dead people.

    Should we be more sympathetic about suicide? Or is it selfish and deserving of no ounce of attention?
    No, we shouldn't. Your friends and you were right, it's an idiotic and pathetic move

  8. #28
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    People commit suicide for a lot of reasons.

    Often suicidal thoughts come from an irrational mind. Not that the person is stupid or weak but meaning they are incapable of accessing their situation logically on their own due to the brain being the brain. Like the way anxiety and panic might still was over you even though you know things will be okay. Like your body telling you need to eat junk even though you know it's bad for you.

    Suicidal thoughts can be hard to escape because your brain isn't viewing input logically. It doesn't accept short term or fixable problems as just that, short term/fixable, it sees them as the 'endgame'. People going through dark times often need an outside influence to help anchor them/pool them out before they get the best of themselves.

    Some people suicide in the face of a terminal condition and don't want put themselves or their loved ones through a period where their quality of life plummets. They rather do things on their own terms when the time comes.

    Then you have those who commit suicide out of completely selfish reasons. Some of these cases are related to depression. Others are spiteful, false senses of grandeur. The person who kills themself to escape the criminal justice system, the person who kills themself out of financial spite, the person who 'takes people with them' because something is wrong with their life.

    You treat suicide as a case by case basis and recognize the person probably wasn't able to receive the help they needed to recover from own thoughts.

  9. #29
    I am pro-choice when it comes to what you do with your own body. Suicide is no different.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by the game View Post
    I mean so many people want to fight for abortion because "it's the woman's body and it's her decision," but are not ok with someone killing themselves. So it's interesting to see the "my body my rules,' thing only applies in certain situations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buttwitch View Post
    Women who want abortions, and their supporters, are not seeing the infant as a person. They don't want the baby anyway, so they have no problem with killing it at any time. They have no problem with killing the baby even after 9 months. Democrats are quite literally pushing for no term limits to abortions.

    Next step is post birth abortions, where the baby gets the lethal injection because the mother doesn't want it.

    Make no mistake, as long as the mother is interested in not having the baby, she has no qualms about killing the baby at any moment. So the law has to step in in order to force the mother to obey the rules of Humanity.
    Malicious lies are just that: Malicious lies.
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  11. #31
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kail View Post
    There is zero purpose in outlawing suicide and would in fact be counterproductive if you want them to second guess the decision.

    Ultimately it is your life to live or not. No level of law enforcement can stop you from killing yourself.
    Its outlawed because of the way various laws are written in particular areas.

    Like deeming suicide illegal might close some benefits loophole (semi related to Aaron Hernandez).

    Labeling suicide illegal might allow legal intervention/hospitalization if someone attempts suicide.

    It could be to protect people from your "doctor deaths" where a healthcare professional claims "they wanted to die, I was just following orders" when the person is purposely killing/coercing their patients.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by AryuFate View Post
    Or is it selfish and deserving of no ounce of attention?
    It's the most seflish thing you can do IMO.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    People commit suicide for a lot of reasons.

    Often suicidal thoughts come from an irrational mind. Not that the person is stupid or weak but meaning they are incapable of accessing their situation logically on their own due to the brain being the brain. Like the way anxiety and panic might still was over you even though you know things will be okay. Like your body telling you need to eat junk even though you know it's bad for you.

    Suicidal thoughts can be hard to escape because your brain isn't viewing input logically. It doesn't accept short term or fixable problems as just that, short term/fixable, it sees them as the 'endgame'. People going through dark times often need an outside influence to help anchor them/pool them out before they get the best of themselves.

    Some people suicide in the face of a terminal condition and don't want put themselves or their loved ones through a period where their quality of life plummets. They rather do things on their own terms when the time comes.

    Then you have those who commit suicide out of completely selfish reasons. Some of these cases are related to depression. Others are spiteful, false senses of grandeur. The person who kills themself to escape the criminal justice system, the person who kills themself out of financial spite, the person who 'takes people with them' because something is wrong with their life.

    You treat suicide as a case by case basis and recognize the person probably wasn't able to receive the help they needed to recover from own thoughts.
    Good overview.
    I argue that suicidal thoughts are like depression or chronic illness. You may know something about the topic, but unless you've experienced it personally, you understand nothing.
    I was only in an early stage, no concrete plans. You look at windows or knives suddenly being mesmerizing, think about it, "yeah, it would be so easy" (boy, it is not easy at all to overcome your survival instinct, although if guns are available, they bear a higher risk of rash decisions). Suicide is not necessarily about being selfish. I was in a state of absolute hopelessness and worthlessness. You start to think that the world is better off without you in the long term. So you frame it actually in an alstruistic way, even if it causes a lot of grief in the short term, which you cant really feel anyway (since depression dulls your empathy). In these situations, it is important to just find even the smallest bit of hope to start again. It can be extremely hard to just start small again but then you can build up again slowly.

  14. #34
    Of course suicide is sad and you should be sympathetic to the victims (aka, the people left behind) but anyone that encourages or even does anything other than consistently tell people suicide is a dumb choice and that their problems can be solved in 99.99/100 cases, is just straight psychotic and probably gets off on hearing about people dying.

    There is a ton of glorification over suicide and it is just god damn vomit-worthy. Like, why is Kurt Cobain a hero again? He made a few songs then took a load of drugs and killed himself, leaving his kid without a father. This is an example of a role model? Not someone who fought in a war? Not someone who does a lot of charity work? Not your favourite teacher? Not some historical figure like Churchill? This guy? A guy who literally played a guitar then killed himself. Thats the guy we're glorifying.

    There are tons of people like this and its again, vomit-worthy to glorify these people. Imagine losing your father because he was some drug addict who killed himself and for the rest of your life, 75% of your conversations are people coming up to you to tell you your dad is a hero and their role model. No "i'm so sorry your dad abandoned you for drugs" or "i'm so sorry your dad couldn't be bothered to give you a normal life, so he tapped out like a pussy."

    Again, yes, we should be sympathetic about suicide, because every time someone commits suicide, there is almost always a few dozen victims that no one cares about.

    Suicide is one step below the ultimate over-reaction, which is a murder suicide. In 99.99% of cases, this is a reaction to something so dumb and so temporary, it is a forgotten memory for most of us. Things like your girlfriend leaving you, or you losing your job, or someone at school calling you ugly, or a family member disliking you. Virtually all of us have experienced these things, many of us have experienced them multiple times and often a few of them at the same time.

    Killing yourself for any other reason than being in unending pain and misery, such as from an extremely disabling incurable, permanent injury or something like that, is just straight stupid.

    Remember the dumb shit you thought was important? Just cast your mind back. Now imagine the sheer amount of pain you could've caused to your family and friends if you had killed yourself over something so god damn stupid, like "oh my dad has cancer" or "oh my girlfriend and i had a fight." These are almost universal human experiences.

    This is life. A typical week at work is harder than the entirety of your childhood and teenage years, with much more drama and stress. But you adapt. You realise how privileged you are, that you can go to work every day and not fear being attacked by wolves or bandits or gangsters. You realise that in any situation you face, there is always a safety net of family, friends and the government. You realise if you fall ill, you're fine. If you run out of money, you're fine. If you face a stressful situation, it'll be over with soon.

    You grow up, essentially. You stop living life one week at a time.
    Last edited by Sliske; 2020-03-16 at 07:51 PM.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Krasses Pferd View Post
    Good overview.
    I argue that suicidal thoughts are like depression or chronic illness. You may know something about the topic, but unless you've experienced it personally, you understand nothing.
    I was only in an early stage, no concrete plans. You look at windows or knives suddenly being mesmerizing, think about it, "yeah, it would be so easy" (boy, it is not easy at all to overcome your survival instinct, although if guns are available, they bear a higher risk of rash decisions). Suicide is not necessarily about being selfish. I was in a state of absolute hopelessness and worthlessness. You start to think that the world is better off without you in the long term. So you frame it actually in an alstruistic way, even if it causes a lot of grief in the short term, which you cant really feel anyway (since depression dulls your empathy). In these situations, it is important to just find even the smallest bit of hope to start again. It can be extremely hard to just start small again but then you can build up again slowly.
    The most common progression I've seen starts with the person perceiving themselves as worthless, which naturally leads to feeling like a burden. Feeling like a burden makes suicide seem natural and rational - people call it stupid but I think it's more akin to ignorance. The person is ignorant to how big of an impact they have in their own life, and one of the most useful things you can do to help someone in that situation is to help them see how much value they do have. It's hard though, most of us are taken for granted by the people in our lives, and feeling suicidal makes it harder to accomplish anything useful, so it's a kind of self-reinforcing cycle. Finding any way to reconnect the person to the people in their life who they love, who love them, is the best way to halt it, or being that person if you can.

  16. #36
    eh! demanding people stay alive just so you can feel good about yourself is some how less selfish?
    no matter how you spin it you end up with a bunch of selfish people.
    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  17. #37
    Merely a Setback Queen of Hamsters's Avatar
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    Well... Since I'm not an ignorant asshole edgelord when it comes to mental illness, I treat it with a sense of severity as well as compassion and I want to see people treated rather than forgotten. Many reach out before they go through with it.
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  18. #38
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    Take Some Rest And Start Hanging out with Your Friends!

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by AryuFate View Post
    Should we be more sympathetic about suicide? Or is it selfish and deserving of no ounce of attention?
    What most people don't seem to understand is that depression is an actual health condition, just like a broken leg or any other condition. It just doesn't manifest physically but mentally. It is real. It is bad for the families, but it's also bad for the person having the depression. And it's not like this is coming out of nowhere in most cases. Most people who take their own life have come along way. It's nothing that comes easily in the heat of the moment.

    Our society is just too busy to see the signs.

  20. #40
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the game View Post
    my point is that it's hypocritical for us to support bodily autonomy in one instance and not the other. Either we should have the right to do what we want with our bodies or we shouldn't. Whether we're killing ourselves or not.
    Absolutely. I agree with you 100%.

    Suicide is a serous issue of course and we should show compassion for those who suffer from the thoughts of it or attempts. It is a mental illness for sure and working for treatments for it should be done.
    " If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher.." - Abraham Lincoln
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